Mine already is...

David Schramm
M/V Jenny
Nordhavn 46-39

So is mine.
Patrick Norhavn 46 01

-----Original Message-----
From: David Schramm david@schramm-family.net
To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 4:06 pm
Subject: Re: [PUP] Let's design the perfect passagemaker

Mine already is...

David Schramm
M/V Jenny
Nordhavn 46-39

http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power

To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.

Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.

I like this discussion a LOT and do not want it to end. Let's just move
ahead with thinking enjoyable PPM thoughts and each of us can take away what
we will from the discussion.

The discussion of design parameters seemed like it faded out before we got
too far, so let me ask: do we want to think of the PPM boat as being
designed for a cohabitating couple 95% of the time? In other words, would it
be more fun for the group to try to fit our ideas into that package since
that is what most of us want?

If that's the case, then describing the boat's population gets more
complicated for the other 5% of the boat's use. Maybe a second parameter, a
subset of the basic accommodation requirement, is "how many guests for how
long" and "how many crew for how long?" because there is a difference
between the accommodations required by a few guests for a short coastal
cruise and those required for a crew of 2-4 on a trans-oceanic passage of
several weeks.

My sense is that guests in a quiet anchorage can be stowed up forward or in
any old corner (depending on how much you love them or want to impress
them), while crew on the open ocean absolutely need to be guaranteed a
stable, quiet sleeping place; the safety of the boat may depend on an alert
crew. Similarly, the captain may wish to sleep closer to the helm on a
passage but feel safe below when at anchor. But the crew and guest
accommodations still won't be needed 95% of the time.

So, what to do? This may be one of many places we look at different
configurations of interior components to perform different functions at
different times, the old example being dropping the table to make a bunk.
What else could be moved around or transformed? Could a desk become a couch
and then become a bed? And why do non-structural bulkheads have to be
permanent--couldn't they be temporary panels? Or are there good arguments
for dedicated uses for components--like it's too much of a hassle to make
these components change form and better to build a bigger boat?

The other broad parameter that intrigues me is how do I design the boat so I
can sail well into my 70's and maybe even my 80's to increase my ROI? I
think many boats get put up for sale because the owners just can't function
on the thing any more. For me, the PMM has to have some "Geezer Specs." What
would they look like?

One other way we can open up the discussion is to ask open-ended kinds of
questions. For example, instead of "galley up or galley down?", I'd like to
discuss something like, "Distinguish what it is about a galley up that
appeals to so many cooks so we can find alternative ways to keep them
happy." We could ask some basic questions of the cooks, like getting them to
prioritize sociability (when there are just two people 95% of the time but
you like inviting other sailors to dinner occasionally) vs. being able to
see outside vs. minimizing pitch & roll, vs. counter space vs. ventilation
vs. distance to pilot house vs. distance to dining table vs. able to
accommodate two cooks vs. other uses for topside space vs. ???? I'm not a
cook so I guess I even need to ask what the questions are. But the
prioritized answers need to be concepts, like "being able to look out a big
enough window so I don't get sea sick."

And finally, let's keep an eye out for areas in which we might not need to
come to agreement in order to move on. Hull material strikes me as one of
those areas because we can chew the subject over thoroughly then proceed
happily with discussions of so many other things (stabilization, number and
type of engines, length/beam, etc.) with each of us placing the solutions we
develop within the hull material of his choice.

Anyway, thanks to Scott Bulger for throwing such intriguing red meat as
"design the perfect passage maker" to so many knowledgeable old sea dogs. He
certainly got a fun thing going!

Regards,
Bob Frenier
Advantage Apparatus, LLC
Chelsea, VT

Sometimes when eating out I think about desert first.

With this PPM discussion and its various side trips perhaps backing into the conversation might help. If given the choice of heading into a sea or taking a following sea I for one like the sea from behind-less pounding more speed. The design question is--- is how well the boat surfs with a round tail, narrow tail or squared tail?

The relative merits of swim platforms in following seas, the aft underwater profiles that make a boat semi-displacement vs displacement and the size of rudders.

Methinks that flattened aft hull help put a boat up on plane, that wide flat transomes help interior space but can lead to broaching, and that small rudders offer less control at slow speeds than larger rudders.

Kevin Kearney/JOLIE