GB

Gregory Beat

Wed, Aug 28, 2024 10:15 AM

FIRST, You will need the 53508A Operating & Programming Manual (PDF, 500+ pages). Turn to Chapter 2 on Building the DTE-to-DRE Interface cable (Serial) for addressing the 53508A from your Windows computer. Find on xdevs.com web page.

SECOND, The 58503 series of receivers (HP/Symmetricom) are addressed by Standard Commands for Programmable Instruments (SCPI) commands.
HP and then Symmetricom developed SatStat (MS Windows) as a user interface for 58503 series that sends SCPI commands from your PC.

THIRD, You need the SatStat software for your Windows computer.
Two versions (HP/Sym) of SatStat software (53508 series receivers) were saved.
These can be downloaded from the KO4BB manual/software repository.

Lady Heather software (detects & speaks SCPI) presents a modern table and graphic interface to monitor the 53508 family of GPS Time & Frequency Receivers.
Many time-nuts use this software to monitor a variety of GPS receivers.
I use it on my Symmetricom 53508B and Trimble Thunderbolt receivers.
Can be found at the KE5FX repository.
http://www.ke5fx.com/heather/readme.htm

The WNRO Issue can be handled via SCPI commands, when the receiver is first powered up (manually setting Date). Synergy Systems LLC developed their SSR receiver (using uBlox) single board replacement for the original Motorola 8-channel Oncore GPS (faster operation, resolves WNRO).

That should cover the information you need.

Greg, w9gb
chicago

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 12:47:13 -0700
From: Mike Burroughs mikeb@microprecision.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Software for Agilent 58503a
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Hello,
I am hoping someone can help me out with getting ahold of the software for
an Agilent 58503a. I am trying to get the interface software to verify the
lock with the signal. I appreciate any help you can give me.

Thank you,

Mike Burroughs
Division Manager - Seattle
Office Seattle: +1 (425)821-0902
www.microprecision.com

FIRST, You will need the 53508A Operating & Programming Manual (PDF, 500+ pages). Turn to Chapter 2 on Building the DTE-to-DRE Interface cable (Serial) for addressing the 53508A from your Windows computer. Find on xdevs.com web page. SECOND, The 58503 series of receivers (HP/Symmetricom) are addressed by Standard Commands for Programmable Instruments (SCPI) commands. HP and then Symmetricom developed SatStat (MS Windows) as a user interface for 58503 series that sends SCPI commands from your PC. THIRD, You need the SatStat software for your Windows computer. Two versions (HP/Sym) of SatStat software (53508 series receivers) were saved. These can be downloaded from the KO4BB manual/software repository. Lady Heather software (detects & speaks SCPI) presents a modern table and graphic interface to monitor the 53508 family of GPS Time & Frequency Receivers. Many time-nuts use this software to monitor a variety of GPS receivers. I use it on my Symmetricom 53508B and Trimble Thunderbolt receivers. Can be found at the KE5FX repository. http://www.ke5fx.com/heather/readme.htm The WNRO Issue can be handled via SCPI commands, when the receiver is first powered up (manually setting Date). Synergy Systems LLC developed their SSR receiver (using uBlox) single board replacement for the original Motorola 8-channel Oncore GPS (faster operation, resolves WNRO). That should cover the information you need. Greg, w9gb chicago == Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 12:47:13 -0700 From: Mike Burroughs <mikeb@microprecision.com> Subject: [time-nuts] Software for Agilent 58503a To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com Hello, I am hoping someone can help me out with getting ahold of the software for an Agilent 58503a. I am trying to get the interface software to verify the lock with the signal. I appreciate any help you can give me. Thank you, Mike Burroughs *Division Manager - Seattle* Office Seattle: +1 (425)821-0902 www.microprecision.com

R

rbenward@verizon.net

Wed, Oct 16, 2024 10:15 PM

Hi All,

Does anyone have an updated source for the SatStat software. I’ve followed several links but I’ve had no success so far. The KO4BB website that was referenced above doesn’t work. Does anyone have newer links to SatStat? Is there any other software out there other than Lady Heather, Z38XX, and GPSCon?

I am about to embark in taking apart a pair of 10811 double ovens as found in the Z3801A & Z3805A. I need to bring them back on frequency, and I will also be drilling a hole to permit adjustment access from outside the oven. I have done this once before, but only the adjustment, not the hole. Does anyone have any suggestions or cautions (horror stories) before I get started?

Thanks,

Bob

Hi All, Does anyone have an updated source for the SatStat software. I’ve followed several links but I’ve had no success so far. The KO4BB website that was referenced above doesn’t work. Does anyone have newer links to SatStat? Is there any other software out there other than Lady Heather, Z38XX, and GPSCon? I am about to embark in taking apart a pair of 10811 double ovens as found in the Z3801A & Z3805A. I need to bring them back on frequency, and I will also be drilling a hole to permit adjustment access from outside the oven. I have done this once before, but only the adjustment, not the hole. Does anyone have any suggestions or cautions (horror stories) before I get started? Thanks, Bob

TV

Tom Van Baak

Thu, Oct 17, 2024 1:20 PM

Does anyone have newer links to SatStat?

Archived from the original floppy disk:
http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp58503a/

Is there any other software out there other than ...

You actually don't need "software" to run old gear like this. They talk
plain old ASCII two-wire RS232 so anything from a vintage mainframe to a
modern Arduino will work. Those hp GPSDO have lots of cool commands, but
if nothing else, just send a "SYST:STAT?" string and you get back a
nicely formatted full screen status report.

If after trying you can't get the original s/w or stuff like Heather or
GPScon to work, let us know. The problem is often not with the old
program but the new operating system on the new computer.

I am about to embark in taking apart a pair of 10811 double ovens as

found in the Z3801A & Z3805A.

Before resorting to drilling into an oscillator like that, I'd triple
check that the problem is really quartz tuning and not something else,
like power supply(s) or fuse or oven temperature.

For example, you could post frequency, voltage or current plots of the
first ~2 hours of warm-up and we can help you guess what the problem is.
Manually sweeping EFC voltage over the full range is also sometimes a
good clue.

/tvb

> Does anyone have newer links to SatStat? Archived from the original floppy disk: http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp58503a/ > Is there any other software out there other than ... You actually don't need "software" to run old gear like this. They talk plain old ASCII two-wire RS232 so anything from a vintage mainframe to a modern Arduino will work. Those hp GPSDO have lots of cool commands, but if nothing else, just send a "SYST:STAT?" string and you get back a nicely formatted full screen status report. If after trying you can't get the original s/w or stuff like Heather or GPScon to work, let us know. The problem is often not with the old program but the new operating system on the new computer. > I am about to embark in taking apart a pair of 10811 double ovens as found in the Z3801A & Z3805A. Before resorting to drilling into an oscillator like that, I'd triple check that the problem is really quartz tuning and not something else, like power supply(s) or fuse or oven temperature. For example, you could post frequency, voltage or current plots of the first ~2 hours of warm-up and we can help you guess what the problem is. Manually sweeping EFC voltage over the full range is also sometimes a good clue. /tvb

R

rbenward@verizon.net

Thu, Oct 17, 2024 3:00 PM

Hi Tom,

Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere.

I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units.

My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last.

I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back.

Thanks for your help,

Bob

Hi Tom, Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere. I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units. My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last. I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back. Thanks for your help, Bob

BC

Bob Camp

Thu, Oct 17, 2024 8:29 PM

Hi

Simple check:

Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better).

Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811.

Short the EFC to ground.

A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be “ok”.

Bob

On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

Hi Tom,

Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere.

I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units.

My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last.

I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back.

Thanks for your help,

Bob

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi Simple check: Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better). Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811. Short the EFC to ground. A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be “ok”. Bob > On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere. > > I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units. > > My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last. > > I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back. > > Thanks for your help, > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

R

rbenward@verizon.net

Fri, Nov 8, 2024 8:41 PM

Hi Bob,

Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation. As you suggested, I shorted the EFC input and got xxx992Hz. Then I put 5V, 0V, and -5V on the EFC. As you can see, it’s never going to make it, it’s just too far off (assuming and EFC range of +/-5V).

I know somewhere there was post or an article about drilling a hole for the adjustment, but I just can’t find it. I really would like to know how they dealt with not perforating the heater wrapped around the inner can.

Bob

5V

0V & short

-5V

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Camp via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2024 4:29 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: rbenward@verizon.net; Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a

Hi

Simple check:

Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better).

Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811.

Short the EFC to ground.

A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be “ok”.

Bob

On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts < mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Hi Tom,

Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere.

I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units.

My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last.

I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back.

Thanks for your help,

Bob

time-nuts mailing list -- mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send

an email to mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

time-nuts mailing list -- mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi Bob, Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation. As you suggested, I shorted the EFC input and got xxx992Hz. Then I put 5V, 0V, and -5V on the EFC. As you can see, it’s never going to make it, it’s just too far off (assuming and EFC range of +/-5V). I know somewhere there was post or an article about drilling a hole for the adjustment, but I just can’t find it. I really would like to know how they dealt with not perforating the heater wrapped around the inner can. Bob 5V 0V & short -5V -----Original Message----- From: Bob Camp via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2024 4:29 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Cc: rbenward@verizon.net; Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a Hi Simple check: Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better). Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811. Short the EFC to ground. A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be “ok”. Bob > On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts < <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere. > > I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units. > > My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last. > > I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back. > > Thanks for your help, > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send > an email to <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

R

rbenward@verizon.net

Fri, Nov 8, 2024 9:16 PM

Bob,

An update: Z3805A: I also put a PS on the oscillator, changed the voltage so the oscillator went above and below 10MHz and I was able to get the DAC EFC to go rail to rail. I measured the voltage coming out of the EFC and got -2.0V and +4.5V. Now, the DAC EFC is not moving anymore and I also just got an alarm, so I thing maybe this unit has other problems. But, the tests with the oscillator still stand, the unit is way off and needs adjustment (my conclusion…).

I will try and repeat these tests with the Z3801A.

Bob

From: rbenward@verizon.net rbenward@verizon.net
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2024 3:41 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a

Hi Bob,

Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation. As you suggested, I shorted the EFC input and got xxx992Hz. Then I put 5V, 0V, and -5V on the EFC. As you can see, it’s never going to make it, it’s just too far off (assuming and EFC range of +/-5V).

I know somewhere there was post or an article about drilling a hole for the adjustment, but I just can’t find it. I really would like to know how they dealt with not perforating the heater wrapped around the inner can.

Bob

5V

0V & short

-5V

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Camp via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com >
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2024 4:29 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com >
Cc: rbenward@verizon.net mailto:rbenward@verizon.net ; Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org mailto:kb8tq@n1k.org >
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a

Hi

Simple check:

Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better).

Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811.

Short the EFC to ground.

A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be “ok”.

Bob

On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts < mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Hi Tom,

Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere.

I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units.

My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last.

I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back.

Thanks for your help,

Bob

time-nuts mailing list -- mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send

an email to mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

time-nuts mailing list -- mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Bob, An update: Z3805A: I also put a PS on the oscillator, changed the voltage so the oscillator went above and below 10MHz and I was able to get the DAC EFC to go rail to rail. I measured the voltage coming out of the EFC and got -2.0V and +4.5V. Now, the DAC EFC is not moving anymore and I also just got an alarm, so I thing maybe this unit has other problems. But, the tests with the oscillator still stand, the unit is way off and needs adjustment (my conclusion…). I will try and repeat these tests with the Z3801A. Bob From: rbenward@verizon.net <rbenward@verizon.net> Sent: Friday, November 8, 2024 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a Hi Bob, Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation. As you suggested, I shorted the EFC input and got xxx992Hz. Then I put 5V, 0V, and -5V on the EFC. As you can see, it’s never going to make it, it’s just too far off (assuming and EFC range of +/-5V). I know somewhere there was post or an article about drilling a hole for the adjustment, but I just can’t find it. I really would like to know how they dealt with not perforating the heater wrapped around the inner can. Bob 5V 0V & short -5V -----Original Message----- From: Bob Camp via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2024 4:29 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Cc: rbenward@verizon.net <mailto:rbenward@verizon.net> ; Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org <mailto:kb8tq@n1k.org> > Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a Hi Simple check: Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better). Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811. Short the EFC to ground. A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be “ok”. Bob > On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts < <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere. > > I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units. > > My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last. > > I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back. > > Thanks for your help, > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send > an email to <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

PS

paul swed

Fri, Nov 8, 2024 9:18 PM

I do see it never goes above 10 MHz. Assuming 992 is 0 volts
Have taken a Z3801 oven apart its quite a job.
Suggestion insert voltage from a very stable power supply through a 10 turn
5K pot and see what voltage is required to get to 10,000,001 Hz.
If its not a lot more, then an offset voltage using a summing opamp may
solve the issue if you simply can not get into the oven.
Granted a coarse adjustment in the oven would be far better.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 3:47 PM rbenward--- via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Hi Bob,

Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation. As you suggested, I
shorted the EFC input and got xxx992Hz. Then I put 5V, 0V, and -5V on the
EFC. As you can see, it’s never going to make it, it’s just too far off
(assuming and EFC range of +/-5V).

I know somewhere there was post or an article about drilling a hole for
the adjustment, but I just can’t find it. I really would like to know how
they dealt with not perforating the heater wrapped around the inner can.

Bob

5V

0V & short

-5V

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Camp via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2024 4:29 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
Cc: rbenward@verizon.net; Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a

Hi

Simple check:

Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better).

Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811.

Short the EFC to ground.

A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune
range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be
“ok”.

Bob

On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts < <mailto:

time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Hi Tom,

Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere.

I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get

back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes
to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably
did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to
work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC.
On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on
frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down
to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did
not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled.
Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now,
that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the
center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working
units.

My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last.

I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get

back.

Thanks for your help,

Bob

time-nuts mailing list -- mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com

time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send

an email to mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

time-nuts mailing list -- mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com
time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto:
time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

I do see it never goes above 10 MHz. Assuming 992 is 0 volts Have taken a Z3801 oven apart its quite a job. Suggestion insert voltage from a very stable power supply through a 10 turn 5K pot and see what voltage is required to get to 10,000,001 Hz. If its not a lot more, then an offset voltage using a summing opamp may solve the issue if you simply can not get into the oven. Granted a coarse adjustment in the oven would be far better. Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 3:47 PM rbenward--- via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation. As you suggested, I > shorted the EFC input and got xxx992Hz. Then I put 5V, 0V, and -5V on the > EFC. As you can see, it’s never going to make it, it’s just too far off > (assuming and EFC range of +/-5V). > > > > I know somewhere there was post or an article about drilling a hole for > the adjustment, but I just can’t find it. I really would like to know how > they dealt with not perforating the heater wrapped around the inner can. > > > > Bob > > > > > > 5V > > > > > > 0V & short > > > > > > -5V > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Camp via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2024 4:29 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Cc: rbenward@verizon.net; Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> > Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a > > > > Hi > > > > Simple check: > > > > Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better). > > > > Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811. > > > > Short the EFC to ground. > > > > A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune > range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be > “ok”. > > > > Bob > > > > > On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts < <mailto: > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere. > > > > > > I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get > back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes > to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably > did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to > work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. > On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on > frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down > to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did > not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. > Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, > that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the > center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working > units. > > > > > > My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last. > > > > > > I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get > back. > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > > > Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > > > time-nuts mailing list -- <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send > > > an email to <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> > time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto: > time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

BC

Bob Camp

Fri, Nov 8, 2024 9:19 PM

Hi

It’s close enough (within about one ppm) that’s it’s not an oven failure. Since it is
frequency low, it might be a crystal seal failure / leak. That’s not something you can
repair short of replacing the crystal.

Since it is tuning it is not an EFC short / failure. That takes another fairly simple
repair off the list.

I’d just replace the whole OCXO. Typically I buy them on eBay for < $60. The outer heater does nothing useful unless your shack runs below freezing. Pretty much any
10811 should do the trick. The trim range might be a bit less. That may be a good thing.

Bob

On Nov 8, 2024, at 3:41 PM, rbenward--- via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

Hi Bob,

Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation. As you suggested, I shorted the EFC input and got xxx992Hz. Then I put 5V, 0V, and -5V on the EFC. As you can see, it’s never going to make it, it’s just too far off (assuming and EFC range of +/-5V).

I know somewhere there was post or an article about drilling a hole for the adjustment, but I just can’t find it. I really would like to know how they dealt with not perforating the heater wrapped around the inner can.

Bob

5V

0V & short

-5V

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Camp via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2024 4:29 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: rbenward@verizon.net; Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a

Hi

Simple check:

Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better).

Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811.

Short the EFC to ground.

A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be “ok”.

Bob

On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts < mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Hi Tom,

Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere.

I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units.

My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last.

I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back.

Thanks for your help,

Bob

time-nuts mailing list -- mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send

an email to mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

time-nuts mailing list -- mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

<image002.jpg><image004.jpg><image009.jpg>_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi It’s close enough (within about one ppm) that’s it’s not an oven failure. Since it is frequency low, it might be a crystal seal failure / leak. That’s not something you can repair short of replacing the crystal. Since it *is* tuning it is not an EFC short / failure. That takes another fairly simple repair off the list. I’d just replace the whole OCXO. Typically I buy them on eBay for < $60. The outer heater does nothing useful unless your shack runs below freezing. Pretty much any 10811 should do the trick. The trim range might be a bit less. That may be a good thing. Bob > On Nov 8, 2024, at 3:41 PM, rbenward--- via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation. As you suggested, I shorted the EFC input and got xxx992Hz. Then I put 5V, 0V, and -5V on the EFC. As you can see, it’s never going to make it, it’s just too far off (assuming and EFC range of +/-5V). > > > > I know somewhere there was post or an article about drilling a hole for the adjustment, but I just can’t find it. I really would like to know how they dealt with not perforating the heater wrapped around the inner can. > > > > Bob > > > > > > 5V > > > > > > 0V & short > > > > > > -5V > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Camp via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2024 4:29 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Cc: rbenward@verizon.net; Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> > Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a > > > > Hi > > > > Simple check: > > > > Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better). > > > > Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811. > > > > Short the EFC to ground. > > > > A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be “ok”. > > > > Bob > > > >> On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts < <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Tom, > >> > >> Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere. > >> > >> I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units. > >> > >> My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last. > >> > >> I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back. > >> > >> Thanks for your help, > >> > >> Bob > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send > >> an email to <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > <image002.jpg><image004.jpg><image009.jpg>_______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

R

rbenward@verizon.net

Tue, Nov 12, 2024 5:08 PM

Hi All,
Another update.

After disassembling the oscillator, I attempted to adjust it to get it near 10MHz with the EFC midrange. I was successful eventually, but I believe the piston cap is near its end of travel. What a mess, the constant high internal temperature does a number on the glue, rubber gaskets and tape used to assemble the double oven.

As suggested, I may not put the oscillator back together, but just keep it at the 10811 original package level. To facilitate this, I will create a PCB that allow the different variants to be conveniently mounted. I also want to accommodate other OCXOs like some of the Morion and Oscilloquartz oscillators found on Ebay.

From my measurements, the 10811 seems to be a negative EFC coefficient, but I believe many OCXOs out there have positive coefficients. To fix that I will also put in an inverter with provisions for adding offsets to make the design more universal. Comments on the above assumptions are welcome.

On the software side, my clock seems to be set to Mar 29th 2005 (the day updates). I tried the command to preset the date, but manual command does not take. Any suggestions?

Also, I occasionally get a message that I am on emergency moderation. Can someone clarify?

Regards,
Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: rbenward--- via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2024 4:17 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: rbenward@verizon.net
Subject: [time-nuts] FW: Re: Software for Agilent 58503a

Bob,

An update: Z3805A: I also put a PS on the oscillator, changed the voltage so the oscillator went above and below 10MHz and I was able to get the DAC EFC to go rail to rail. I measured the voltage coming out of the EFC and got -2.0V and +4.5V. Now, the DAC EFC is not moving anymore and I also just got an alarm, so I thing maybe this unit has other problems. But, the tests with the oscillator still stand, the unit is way off and needs adjustment (my conclusion…).

I will try and repeat these tests with the Z3801A.

Bob

From: rbenward@verizon.net rbenward@verizon.net
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2024 3:41 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a

Hi Bob,

Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation. As you suggested, I shorted the EFC input and got xxx992Hz. Then I put 5V, 0V, and -5V on the EFC. As you can see, it’s never going to make it, it’s just too far off (assuming and EFC range of +/-5V).

I know somewhere there was post or an article about drilling a hole for the adjustment, but I just can’t find it. I really would like to know how they dealt with not perforating the heater wrapped around the inner can.

Bob

5V

0V & short

-5V

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Camp via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com >
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2024 4:29 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com >
Cc: rbenward@verizon.net mailto:rbenward@verizon.net ; Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org mailto:kb8tq@n1k.org >
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a

Hi

Simple check:

Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better).

Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811.

Short the EFC to ground.

A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be “ok”.

Bob

On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts < mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Hi Tom,

Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere.

I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units.

My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last.

I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back.

Thanks for your help,

Bob

time-nuts mailing list -- mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send

an email to mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

time-nuts mailing list -- mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi All, Another update. After disassembling the oscillator, I attempted to adjust it to get it near 10MHz with the EFC midrange. I was successful eventually, but I believe the piston cap is near its end of travel. What a mess, the constant high internal temperature does a number on the glue, rubber gaskets and tape used to assemble the double oven. As suggested, I may not put the oscillator back together, but just keep it at the 10811 original package level. To facilitate this, I will create a PCB that allow the different variants to be conveniently mounted. I also want to accommodate other OCXOs like some of the Morion and Oscilloquartz oscillators found on Ebay. From my measurements, the 10811 seems to be a negative EFC coefficient, but I believe many OCXOs out there have positive coefficients. To fix that I will also put in an inverter with provisions for adding offsets to make the design more universal. Comments on the above assumptions are welcome. On the software side, my clock seems to be set to Mar 29th 2005 (the day updates). I tried the command to preset the date, but manual command does not take. Any suggestions? Also, I occasionally get a message that I am on emergency moderation. Can someone clarify? Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rbenward--- via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Sent: Friday, November 8, 2024 4:17 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Cc: rbenward@verizon.net Subject: [time-nuts] FW: Re: Software for Agilent 58503a Bob, An update: Z3805A: I also put a PS on the oscillator, changed the voltage so the oscillator went above and below 10MHz and I was able to get the DAC EFC to go rail to rail. I measured the voltage coming out of the EFC and got -2.0V and +4.5V. Now, the DAC EFC is not moving anymore and I also just got an alarm, so I thing maybe this unit has other problems. But, the tests with the oscillator still stand, the unit is way off and needs adjustment (my conclusion…). I will try and repeat these tests with the Z3801A. Bob From: rbenward@verizon.net <rbenward@verizon.net> Sent: Friday, November 8, 2024 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a Hi Bob, Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation. As you suggested, I shorted the EFC input and got xxx992Hz. Then I put 5V, 0V, and -5V on the EFC. As you can see, it’s never going to make it, it’s just too far off (assuming and EFC range of +/-5V). I know somewhere there was post or an article about drilling a hole for the adjustment, but I just can’t find it. I really would like to know how they dealt with not perforating the heater wrapped around the inner can. Bob 5V 0V & short -5V -----Original Message----- From: Bob Camp via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2024 4:29 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Cc: rbenward@verizon.net <mailto:rbenward@verizon.net> ; Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org <mailto:kb8tq@n1k.org> > Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Software for Agilent 58503a Hi Simple check: Let the unit warm up for a while ( > 30 minutes, 2 hours would be better). Put a frequency counter on the output of the 10811. Short the EFC to ground. A working “GPSDO version” of the 10811 should have about +/- 1 ppm of tune range. With a shorted EFC anything within a half ppm of 10 MHz should be “ok”. Bob > On Oct 17, 2024, at 11:00 AM, rbenward--- via time-nuts < <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > Thank you for the link, I searched and searched but I got nowhere. > > I haven’t played with my equipment in almost 15 years. I need to get back into it. For instance, you mentioned the heater. One plug which goes to the power supply on the Z3805A has two wires disconnected. I probably did that, or it came that way, I just don’t remember. This unit used to work but not anymore. Everything checks OK (status) except for the EFC. On the Z3801A (my first GPSDO) I had taken it apart and put it back on frequency, but of course, the adjustment is with the oven taken apart down to the 10811 level. I don’t know what the limits are, and certainly did not know where the EFC was or which way it will drift when re-assembled. Currently both units show the EFC at the rails, so I am assuming for now, that the oscillators have drifter too far and they need a push back to the center. I would like to convert these two paperweights back into working units. > > My Trimble is working fine but I don’t know how long that will last. > > I am off for three weeks, so all this effort will go on hold until I get back. > > Thanks for your help, > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send > an email to <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com