WOOD 47' PACEMAKER
Am looking at a wooden Pacemaker 47' and 50,000 lbs. New mahogheny bottom and
ribs. Does the list know if this boat needs a marine railway to take out to
bottom paint or can it briefly be sling lifted and put up on supports???
Also it has new Monel diesel fuel tanks, any negatives there?? For $50K I
guess I can't go too far wrong. Thanks Russ
The Monel tanks are worth as much as the boat! Monel is extremely corrosion
resistant and is superior to stainless steel. These would have been very
expensive unless the owner had the material lying about. This is a good sign
that the owner was interested in quality or he is crazy. {;*{) I would ask
the folks who did the new bottom what she requires. Personally, if a Travel
Lift is used, I would insist upon at least 3 and possibly 4 slings be used.
I would also want more blocks under her keel and more supports than the
number used on a fiberglass boat. Assuming that she's tight now and not
leaking, I wouldn't leave her out of the water very long so that the wood
doesn't have to swell again to become watertight. We just had this happen
with a beautiful Bristol Channel Cutter which had to lie in slings, in the
water for two days until the planks took up and she stopped exceeding the
capacity of the regular bilge pumps. This was a hull so perfect that one
would think it was smooth fiberglass.
Ron Rogers
-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Davignon
Am looking at a wooden Pacemaker 47' and 50,000 lbs. New mahogheny bottom
and
ribs. Does the list know if this boat needs a marine railway to take out to
bottom paint or can it briefly be sling lifted and put up on supports???
Also it has new Monel diesel fuel tanks, any negatives there?? For $50K I
guess I can't go too far wrong. Thanks Russ
How do you know the tanks are monel?
How do you know the bottom replanking has been done properly? How old
are the repairs? What about the engines, they generally had gas, or old
Detroit 6-71s.
I am not implying that you have been lied to, but if you are relying on
these "facts" and if they are wrong, the boat is worth less than
nothing. The fact that these issues have been addressed means the boat
was in bad shape at one time. The rest of the boat still has issues, you
can count on it.
A Pacemaker like that is about 40 years, or more old. the purchase of
such a relic is nothing that any novice should even consider. If you are
you should run, not walk.
If you are experienced with wooden boats, even then extreme care should
be taken in researching all the aspects of the boat as you will be
buying a boat that is nearly untouchable and will be hard to sell.
Old wooden boats are project boats. I could give you an almost endless
list of issues that an old Pacemaker of that vintage most likely still has.
I would not take a client near one, for love or money. Since, there is
not one boater in 100,000 that knows enough to own one.
Sorry about this, but I have been there and done that. Never again.
Regards,
Mike
Capt. Mike Maurice
Tigard, Oregon (Near Portland).
Mike Maurice mikem@yachtsdelivered.com writes:
Old wooden boats are project boats. I could give you an almost endless
list of issues that an old Pacemaker of that vintage most likely still has.
What he said. Wooden boats are very special, and I own one myself. But they
are not a bargain. Production boats such as Pacemaker and Chris Craft have
the added problem is that they were not particularly robustly built in the
first place. Not a slight in any way, but understand that they were not built
to last 40 or 50 years.
Finally, assume that everything you hear about the boat is untrue. In my
particular case, I spent two full days surveying the boat myself, plus
another full day with a very good, very experienced wooden boat surveyor, and
even with that we still found hidden problems that cost many, many tens of
thousand of dollars to fix. Now, in fairness, I don't think the sellers
misled me, they had only owned the boat for about 2 years and it was obvious
that some of the coverups were older than that. But the cost to fix still
came out of my pocket.
If you really want a good wooden boat, get one that is already restored. Like
these two:
http://tinyurl.com/c2xt9a
http://tinyurl.com/c7e4st
Scott Welch
Product Manager, Open Text Collaboration Solutions Group
www.opentext.com
905 762 6101
"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn
out." - John Wooden
Am looking at a wooden Pacemaker 47' and 50,000 lbs. New
mahogheny bottom and
ribs. Does the list know if this boat needs a marine
railway to take out to
bottom paint or can it briefly be sling lifted and put up
on supports???
Also it has new Monel diesel fuel tanks, any negatives
there?? For $50K I
guess I can't go too far wrong. Thanks Russ
Hi Russell=
It is great to hear from someone who desires a wooden boat. I love them, having built eight of them, designed most of the ones I built, and have lived on them and cruised them for the past twelve years, as well as having surveyed or repaired many others.
Either a rail or slings can work, I believe that it was Ron that gave you good suggestions for doing this.
A wooden boat, for us anyways, has advantages that we prefer over other materials; that is why we choose wood. Sure there are disadvantages, but that is true to any material. Choose the material that gives you the liabilities that you can live with the best, and if that is wood, you'll be happy.
Buying an old boat, no matter the material, should be entered into with caution. As I survey boats, I find boats of every material that have serious problems, some obvious and some hidden; some costly to repair, and some not. It is the condition of the boat that counts, not the material it is made out of.
The best solution that I know of to evaluate the boat that you are considering is a three prong approach: thoroughly survey the boat yourself; have the boat thoroughly surveyed by a surveyer, hopefully one with experience with wood boats; and, have the boat thoroughly surveyed by someone who hopefully designs, builds and repairs wood boats, or at least one of the three.
Make sure each enjoys crawling into impossible places, loves to get dirty and enjoys taking the time to do a thorough job. It they can identify problems in a manner that reveals whether it is serviceable; serviceable, but need repaired soon; or, needs repaired now, so much the better.
My reasoning for this approach is that each of those three people will be looking at your boat from a different perspective, thus minimizing the chances that something will be missed.
I'd like to think that some of us are all knowing, and all seeing, but this does not seem to be the reality. No matter how diligent someone is trying to be when looking over your boat, their background, training, time constraints, and I'm sure there are other reasons, can influence what is looked for and how it is interpreted. Things may still be missed, but you have decreased the odds of this happening if this approach is used.
Those that I have dealt with and who followed through on this approach, seemed to obtain better results and been happier with their final purchase, than those that haven't.
Once this has been accomplished then I think that you will be in a better position to decide if it is a purchase that fits your needs.
Have fun.
Rudy
Briney Bug, Port St Joe, Fl
i am extremely grateful that there are still some folks out there who are
willing to spend the money, time and effort on keeping woodies afloat and
alive; many of these boats are gorgeous with classic lines and a soul.
that said, i know i will never own one as it is just too maintenance
intensive and the risks are just too high.
all it take is one plank coming loose underway... Even with a "new" bottom,
you can't be sure everything was done right, that the screws were the rigth
quality and put in right...
"For $50K I guess I can't go too far wrong."
well, you can go wrong by 50k plus purchase expenses plus all the $ you will
add to the boat, plus the additional maintenance you will put in year after
year.
Tehre are many glass boats out there that can be bought for little more than
this; unless you have the knowledge, experience and $ to keep the boat in
pristine shape, RUN!
again, thank you to all those who are willing to restore these beauties, you
are keeping a piece of maritime history alive.
pascal
miami, fl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Davignon" svascension@yahoo.com
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:55 AM
Subject: T&T: WOOD 47' PACEMAKER
Am looking at a wooden Pacemaker 47' and 50,000 lbs. New mahogheny bottom
and
ribs. Does the list know if this boat needs a marine railway to take out
to
bottom paint or can it briefly be sling lifted and put up on supports???
Also it has new Monel diesel fuel tanks, any negatives there?? For $50K I
guess I can't go too far wrong. Thanks Russ
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I have used both a lift with 4 slings and railroads. The benefit of
slings is that they can place it somewhere in the yard blocked up while
you work on it. On the railroad, its stuck there with a time constraint
till they back it back into the water. My wood vessel is 60k lbs. and
most yards can handle that weight.
As most have stated, you will spend a lot of time working on a wood
boat. You have to go into it with the same frame of mind as if you were
purchasing an old Victorian house. It will take years to fix up but in
the end it will be one of a kind. (This old boat)
Alec
GB Alaskan 49
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Pascal Gademer
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 8:27 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: WOOD 47' PACEMAKER
i am extremely grateful that there are still some folks out there who
are willing to spend the money, time and effort on keeping woodies
afloat and alive; many of these boats are gorgeous with classic lines
and a soul.
that said, i know i will never own one as it is just too maintenance
intensive and the risks are just too high.
all it take is one plank coming loose underway... Even with a "new"
bottom, you can't be sure everything was done right, that the screws
were the rigth quality and put in right...
"For $50K I guess I can't go too far wrong."
well, you can go wrong by 50k plus purchase expenses plus all the $ you
will add to the boat, plus the additional maintenance you will put in
year after year.
Tehre are many glass boats out there that can be bought for little more
than this; unless you have the knowledge, experience and $ to keep the
boat in pristine shape, RUN!
again, thank you to all those who are willing to restore these beauties,
you are keeping a piece of maritime history alive.
pascal
miami, fl
David,
I would not too afraid of Wooden boats; there are some good values out
there. But it takes an eye to see them, and even so it more depends on not
only how the original construction was done, but also ongoing maintenance.
Couple of things strike me though:
- I am not sure it is common to frame with mahogany. Much more common was
Oak. - Complete bottom, and reframe. The word Complete seems rather excessive.
If it needed a 'complete' reframing, someone must have loved that boat more
then almost life its self. - Monel tanks. Wow, again, loved the boat more then life....
And finally: $50K is a bit of money these days for a wood boat, unless it
is truly in Bristol condition. If this is your 1st boat, and you are simply
attached by the price I would say: be careful - Places are FULL of wood
boats purchased with stars in the buyers eyes, and later left to continue to
rot.
But, this is not to say it can not be a good value. You should see if there
is a good surveyor who knows wood in your area - maybe even a shipwrite?
Also, spend some time on www.woodenboats.com Lots of good folks over there,
and a much deeper knowledge base then you will likely find here.
And to answer your question: Railway or dry-dock is better, but if properly
done a travellift is safe for a boat in good condition. Again, try to see
if you can find someone local with wood experience to guide you and maybe
recommend places that are more knowledgeable on slinging woodies!
Good luck, and be careful before signing that contract!
-al-