as of5/16/2019Spinnaker Division
# of Races2No ThrowoutsBoat NameEncoreHee SooImagine MoreMargaretRace Riot*SpiritThe OfficeStanding7314551Cumulative Score1254810104* Race Riot on Race Committee first two races, receives average score for those races, once she races and has an average to include.
<!--td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}-->Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoriing)as of5/16/2019Non-Spinnaker Division
# of Races2No ThrowoutsBoat Name50/50AeolusDolceHudson DragonJourneyMerry ChasePentimentoShebaSpectraZoomStanding3189723396Cumulative Score751517146771713> > > @maillist.nyackboatclub.org>@maillist.nyackboatclub.org>@mindspring.com>
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As per The Rules of Sailing, I as a crew member am requesting a formal
redress for the results of the race on Wed, May 15, 2019. As per the
requirements for a formal redress, I brought the matter to the attention
of the Chair of the Race Committee at the conclusion of last nights race
regarding the alteration of the course as originally stated. A course
change can not be done by radio and must require the posting of the
appropriate flag for a course change and course shortening. This would
also necessitate the placement of a race patrol boat within clear sight
of the mark, Neither condition was fulfilled and thus the race committee
was in violation of the sailing instructions previously provided. This
is to serve as confirmation of the request for a formal redress and the
elimination of all results from the specified race on May 15th.
John Ivan Sutter
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:04 PM, Tony Martin afmartin--- via
Cruisingfleet wrote:
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoring)
as of5/16/2019
Spinnaker Division
RiotSpiritThe OfficeStanding7314551Cumulative Score1254810104 Race
Riot on Race Committee first two races, receives average score for those
races, once she races and has an average to include.
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoriing)
as of5/16/2019
Non-Spinnaker Division
DragonJourneyMerry
ChasePentimentoShebaSpectraZoomStanding3189723396Cumulative
Score751517146771713
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Request denied, you are 20 hours late.
Howie Rinehart, PRO
Get Outlook for iOShttps://aka.ms/o0ukef
From: Wednightracing wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org on behalf of John Ivan Sutter, MD, MS via Wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2019 4:23:36 PM
To: Tony Martin (afmartin@alumni.uchicago.edu)
Cc: wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] [Cruisingfleet] Wed Night Series Redress
As per The Rules of Sailing, I as a crew member am requesting a formal redress for the results of the race on Wed, May 15, 2019. As per the requirements for a formal redress, I brought the matter to the attention of the Chair of the Race Committee at the conclusion of last nights race regarding the alteration of the course as originally stated. A course change can not be done by radio and must require the posting of the appropriate flag for a course change and course shortening. This would also necessitate the placement of a race patrol boat within clear sight of the mark, Neither condition was fulfilled and thus the race committee was in violation of the sailing instructions previously provided. This is to serve as confirmation of the request for a formal redress and the elimination of all results from the specified race on May 15th.
John Ivan Sutter
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:04 PM, Tony Martin afmartin--- via Cruisingfleet wrote:
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoring)
as of 5/16/2019
Spinnaker Division
# of Races 2 No Throwouts
Boat Name Encore Hee Soo Imagine More Margaret Race Riot* Spirit The Office
Standing 7 3 1 4 5 5 1
Cumulative Score 12 5 4 8 10 10 4
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoriing)
as of 5/16/2019
Non-Spinnaker Division
# of Races 2 No Throwouts
Boat Name 50/50 Aeolus Dolce Hudson Dragon Journey Merry Chase Pentimento Sheba Spectra Zoom
Standing 3 1 8 9 7 2 3 3 9 6
Cumulative Score 7 5 15 17 14 6 7 7 17 13
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Attaboy, Howie.
On May 16, 2019 at 6:04 PM Howard Rinehart via Wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org wrote:
Request denied, you are 20 hours late.
Howie Rinehart, PRO
Get Outlook for iOS https://aka.ms/o0ukef
---------------------------------------------
From: Wednightracing <wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> on behalf of John Ivan Sutter, MD, MS via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2019 4:23:36 PM
To: Tony Martin (afmartin@alumni.uchicago.edu)
Cc: wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] [Cruisingfleet] Wed Night Series Redress
As per The Rules of Sailing, I as a crew member am requesting a formal redress for the results of the race on Wed, May 15, 2019. As per the requirements for a formal redress, I brought the matter to the attention of the Chair of the Race Committee at the conclusion of last nights race regarding the alteration of the course as originally stated. A course change can not be done by radio and must require the posting of the appropriate flag for a course change and course shortening. This would also necessitate the placement of a race patrol boat within clear sight of the mark, Neither condition was fulfilled and thus the race committee was in violation of the sailing instructions previously provided. This is to serve as confirmation of the request for a formal redress and the elimination of all results from the specified race on May 15th.
John Ivan Sutter
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:04 PM, Tony Martin afmartin--- via Cruisingfleet wrote:
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoring)
as of 5/16/2019
Spinnaker Division
# of Races 2 No Throwouts
Boat Name Encore Hee Soo Imagine More Margaret Race Riot* Spirit The Office
Standing 7 3 1 4 5 5 1
Cumulative Score 12 5 4 8 10 10 4
* Race Riot on Race Committee first two races, receives average score for those races, once she races and has an average to include.
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoriing)
as of 5/16/2019
Non-Spinnaker Division
# of Races 2 No Throwouts
Boat Name 50/50 Aeolus Dolce Hudson Dragon Journey Merry Chase Pentimento Sheba Spectra Zoom
Standing 3 1 8 9 7 2 3 3 9 6
Cumulative Score 7 5 15 17 14 6 7 7 17 13
---------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
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What Dr. Sutter fails to mention in his Protest form is critical: how his finishing position in the race was made "significantly worse"by the action of the race committee.
On May 16, 2019 at 6:50 PM BRACKEN via Wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org wrote:
Attaboy, Howie.
On May 16, 2019 at 6:04 PM Howard Rinehart via Wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org wrote:
Request denied, you are 20 hours late.
Howie Rinehart, PRO
Get Outlook for iOS https://aka.ms/o0ukef
---------------------------------------------
From: Wednightracing <wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> on behalf of John Ivan Sutter, MD, MS via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2019 4:23:36 PM
To: Tony Martin (afmartin@alumni.uchicago.edu)
Cc: wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] [Cruisingfleet] Wed Night Series Redress
As per The Rules of Sailing, I as a crew member am requesting a formal redress for the results of the race on Wed, May 15, 2019. As per the requirements for a formal redress, I brought the matter to the attention of the Chair of the Race Committee at the conclusion of last nights race regarding the alteration of the course as originally stated. A course change can not be done by radio and must require the posting of the appropriate flag for a course change and course shortening. This would also necessitate the placement of a race patrol boat within clear sight of the mark, Neither condition was fulfilled and thus the race committee was in violation of the sailing instructions previously provided. This is to serve as confirmation of the request for a formal redress and the elimination of all results from the specified race on May 15th.
John Ivan Sutter
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:04 PM, Tony Martin afmartin--- via Cruisingfleet wrote:
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoring)
as of 5/16/2019
Spinnaker Division
# of Races 2 No Throwouts
Boat Name Encore Hee Soo Imagine More Margaret Race Riot* Spirit The Office
Standing 7 3 1 4 5 5 1
Cumulative Score 12 5 4 8 10 10 4
* Race Riot on Race Committee first two races, receives average score for those races, once she races and has an average to include.
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoriing)
as of 5/16/2019
Non-Spinnaker Division
# of Races 2 No Throwouts
Boat Name 50/50 Aeolus Dolce Hudson Dragon Journey Merry Chase Pentimento Sheba Spectra Zoom
Standing 3 1 8 9 7 2 3 3 9 6
Cumulative Score 7 5 15 17 14 6 7 7 17 13
---------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
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John,
Please read the NBC Wednesday Night Sailing Instructions. Local Sailing Instructions supersede the U.S. Racing Rules of Sailing.
RULE 1
The series will be governed by the rules as defined in The Racing Rules of Sailing.
Rule 12 - CHANGING THE NEXT LEG OF THE COURSE
Changes of course will be announced on VHF. There will be separate announcements for each fleet. This changes RRS 33.
Lee
From: Wednightracing [mailto:wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of John Ivan Sutter, MD, MS via Wednightracing
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2019 4:24 PM
To: Tony Martin (afmartin@alumni.uchicago.edu)
Cc: wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] [Cruisingfleet] Wed Night Series Redress
As per The Rules of Sailing, I as a crew member am requesting a formal redress for the results of the race on Wed, May 15, 2019. As per the requirements for a formal redress, I brought the matter to the attention of the Chair of the Race Committee at the conclusion of last nights race regarding the alteration of the course as originally stated. A course change can not be done by radio and must require the posting of the appropriate flag for a course change and course shortening. This would also necessitate the placement of a race patrol boat within clear sight of the mark, Neither condition was fulfilled and thus the race committee was in violation of the sailing instructions previously provided. This is to serve as confirmation of the request for a formal redress and the elimination of all results from the specified race on May 15th.
John Ivan Sutter
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:04 PM, Tony Martin afmartin--- via Cruisingfleet wrote:
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoring)
as of
5/16/2019
Spinnaker Division
# of Races
2
No Throwouts
Boat Name
Encore
Hee Soo
Imagine More
Margaret
Race Riot*
Spirit
The Office
Standing
7
3
1
4
5
5
1
Cumulative Score
12
5
4
8
10
10
4
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoriing)
as of
5/16/2019
Non-Spinnaker Division
# of Races
2
No Throwouts
Boat Name
50/50
Aeolus
Dolce
Hudson Dragon
Journey
Merry Chase
Pentimento
Sheba
Spectra
Zoom
Standing
3
1
8
9
7
2
3
3
9
6
Cumulative Score
7
5
15
17
14
6
7
7
17
13
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Right on Howie. Keep it safe, keep it simple and keep it FUN.
Richie
On 5/16/19 6:04 PM, Howard Rinehart via Wednightracing wrote:
Request denied, you are 20 hours late.
Howie Rinehart, PRO
From: Wednightracing
wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org on behalf of John
Ivan Sutter, MD, MS via Wednightracing
wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2019 4:23:36 PM
To: Tony Martin (afmartin@alumni.uchicago.edu)
Cc: wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] [Cruisingfleet] Wed Night Series
Redress
As per The Rules of Sailing, I as a crew member am requesting a formal
redress for the results of the race on Wed, May 15, 2019. As per the
requirements for a formal redress, I brought the matter to the
attention of the Chair of the Race Committee at the conclusion of last
nights race regarding the alteration of the course as originally
stated. A course change can not be done by radio and must require the
posting of the appropriate flag for a course change and course
shortening. This would also necessitate the placement of a race patrol
boat within clear sight of the mark, Neither condition was fulfilled
and thus the race committee was in violation of the sailing
instructions previously provided. This is to serve as confirmation of
the request for a formal redress and the elimination of all results
from the specified race on May 15th.
John Ivan Sutter
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:04 PM, Tony Martin afmartin--- via
Cruisingfleet wrote:
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoring)
as of 5/16/2019
Spinnaker Division
# of Races *2* No Throwouts
Boat Name Encore Hee Soo Imagine More Margaret Race Riot*
Spirit The Office
Standing 7 3 1 4 5 5 1
Cumulative Score 12 5 4 8 10 10 4
* Race Riot on Race Committee first two races, receives average
score for those races, once she races and has an average to include.
Wednesday Night Series (Low Scoriing)
*as of* *5/16/2019*
*Non-Spinnaker Division*
*# of Races* *2* *No Throwout*s
Boat Name 50/50 Aeolus Dolce Hudson Dragon Journey Merry
Chase Pentimento Sheba Spectra Zoom
Standing 3 1 8 9 7 2 3 3 9 6
Cumulative Score 7 5 15 17 14 6 7 7 17 13
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Wednesday night racers,
As mentioned by Howie and Eric, this request for redress came too late.
Also, I believe the RC properly announced the change in course.
Explanation is below. I also wrote a little speech about racer conduct on
VHF 78.
Protests, including protests against the Race Committee, must be made
within one hour after the RC boat reaches her mooring.
Course changes
Our SIs allow the RC to announce course changes on VHF Channel 78. The RC
did this properly, since the change was announced before any boat rounded
Mark C.
I was fortunate to be corresponding with a representative from US Sailing
about our SIs, so I asked about last night's situation. Here is their
answer:
Technically, the current SIs allow the PRO to verbally change the next leg
of the course. Verbal changes are NOT recommended for many reasons we can
discuss in June. The verbal change MUST follow RRS 33 – the announcement
MUST be made to ALL boats before they begin the changed leg. The hail
should include bearing to the new mark and an indication if the leg length
has been changed. IF all of this was not properly done (the hail was not
done in a timely fashion and all of the required information was not
provided) AND a boat was significantly disadvantaged, that boat can
request redress.
While US Sailing isn't in favor of verbal changes, Howie and the RC met the
above criteria, and properly changed the course.
Racer conduct on VHF
The purpose of VHF 78 is for checking in, RC communication with racers,
alerting racers of emergencies or potential danger, and perhaps asking RC a
question which they have no obligation to answer. It is not a format for
racers to give running commentary and recommendations to the race
committee. I think that some of last night's behavior on VHF could be
deemed misconduct, defined by 69.1(b)(1) as ". . .conduct that is a breach
of good manners. . ."
So let's conduct ourselves with good manners on VHF so your fellow
competitors don't feel compelled to turn it off.
And let's file protests on time, and have fun!
John Sheehan
Chair, Race Committee
Nyack Boat Club
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:03 PM John Ivan Sutter, MD, MS via Wednightracing
wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org wrote:
Thank you John.
Interesting subject.
From a purely academic perspective I note the following:
The NBC wednesday SI 18.4 State: 'All boats must have a working VHF radio and monitor it for announcements from the RC, OCS, abandonment and change of course will be announced by VHF.
The same SI at 19.1 state: "All communications to and from the RC shall be on VHF channel 78."
It appears that the sum of the two rules (one VHF + request to monitor channel 78) induces racers to disregard Coast Guard Regulations which state:
Radio Watchkeeping Regulations
In general, any vessel equipped with a VHF marine radiotelephone (whether voluntarily or required to) must maintain a watch on channel 16 (156.800 MHz) whenever the radiotelephone is not being used to communicate.
Source: FCC 47 CFR §§ 80.148, 80.310, NTIA Manual 8.2.29.6.c(2)(e), ITU RR 31.18, 52.244
I see the logic of the CG and FCC regulations beyond the legal requirement and I can imagine the danger of following the SI as it pertains to "communication" while racing: What would happen, for example, if a tug-barge coming down the channel has a breakdown, its captain sends a Pon-Pon to all station on channel 16 and makes an unexpected maneuver in front of a bunch of sailors blissfully ignorant of the issue while they are monitoring CH 78 for "Changes" and other inconsequential communication?
I reflect upon these issues as I am getting ready to coach two new members of the club to race in our fleets, hopefully in the safest way possible. The hailing frequency on the Hudson and the rest of the world is Channel 16. I think the inducement to monitor anything else is potentially imprudent.
My two cents.
Thank you and regards.
The contents of this e-mail message and any files andattachments are confidential and are intended solely for addressee. Theinformation may also be legally privileged. This transmission is sent in trust,for the sole purpose of delivery to the intended recipient. If you havereceived this transmission in error, any use, reproduction or dissemination ofthis transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intendedrecipient, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail or phone anddelete this message and its attachments, if any.
On Thursday, May 16, 2019, 10:23:58 PM EDT, John Sheehan via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote:
Wednesday night racers,
As mentioned by Howie and Eric, this request for redress came too late. Also, I believe the RC properly announced the change in course. Explanation is below. I also wrote a little speech about racer conduct on VHF 78.
Protests, including protests against the Race Committee, must be made within one hour after the RC boat reaches her mooring.
Course changesOur SIs allow the RC to announce course changes on VHF Channel 78. The RC did this properly, since the change was announced before any boat rounded Mark C.
I was fortunate to be corresponding with a representative from US Sailing about our SIs, so I asked about last night's situation. Here is their answer:
Technically, the current SIs allow the PRO to verbally change the next leg of the course. Verbal changes are NOT recommended for many reasons we can discuss in June. The verbal change MUST follow RRS 33 – the announcement MUST be made to ALL boats before they begin the changed leg. The hail should include bearing to the new mark and an indication if the leg length has been changed. IF all of this was not properly done (the hail was not done in a timely fashion and all of the required information was not provided) AND a boat was significantly disadvantaged, that boat can request redress.
While US Sailing isn't in favor of verbal changes, Howie and the RC met the above criteria, and properly changed the course.
Racer conduct on VHFThe purpose of VHF 78 is for checking in, RC communication with racers, alerting racers of emergencies or potential danger, and perhaps asking RC a question which they have no obligation to answer. It is not a format for racers to give running commentary and recommendations to the race committee. I think that some of last night's behavior on VHF could be deemed misconduct, defined by 69.1(b)(1) as ". . .conduct that is a breach of good manners. . ."
So let's conduct ourselves with good manners on VHF so your fellow competitors don't feel compelled to turn it off.
And let's file protests on time, and have fun!
John SheehanChair, Race CommitteeNyack Boat Club
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:03 PM John Ivan Sutter, MD, MS via Wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org wrote:
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