Re: T&T: Anchor watch
Holy moly! I'm getting a headache reading all this stuff about how
technology can help as keep an eye on our anchors.
Doesn't anyone take a compass bearing on two points on land anymore?
--Georgs
Georgs Kolesnikovs
TomCat 24 At Last!
Frenchman's Bay, Lake Ontario
http://tomcat-tales.blogspot.com
Holy moly! I'm getting a headache reading all this stuff
about how technology can help as keep an eye on our anchors.
Doesn't anyone take a compass bearing on two points on
land anymore?
I know that I'm putting my neck on the web site's chopping block, but why not.
Georgs, we don't even do that. Even though I'm sure there are many who will shake their heads at this, we rely on big enough anchors who's degsigns are chosen to work well in the specific bottom that we are anchoring in, and use plenty of scope.
However, if visibility allows, we do look around occasionally.
For the technos out there, we understand the appeal. We have no issue with them enjoying their equipment; as long as they are also using the first line of defense in anchoring- big enough anchors, designs that work well in the specific bottom they are anchoring in, and sufficient scope.
We harp on these three because when we are able to evaluate a dragging situation, it inevitably comes down to at least one of these three things. Oh, there's occasionally a fourth- inadequate strength of a component.
Sorry folks, but we just feel strongly about it, but for some reason there seems to be great resistance to the necessity for these four aspects in anchoring, and instead, people look to substitute for them.
Electronics are okay, but to substitute electronics for the required gear, will eventually allow what you are watching for, to happen. If you are going to continue to cruise, you will eventually need to get adequate gear anyways, so might as well do it now. Then you can use the electronic with much greater peace-of-mind.
For those of you who are already doing both, continue on with the discussion on how you use your electronics, we are finding it fascinating.
Rudy and Jill
Briney Bug, Port St Joe, Fl
Doesn't anyone take a compass bearing on two points on land anymore?
I used to do that. Now I find that setting a couple of waypoints with
90 degrees of separation gives just as good a measure and updates the
values once per second. The bearing-to-waypoint value gives the
current angle and you can get distance-to-waypoint to get the range
too. In fact, a next generation anchor alarm could take those
waypoints into consideration to verify that the boat was still in the
proper circle of expectation as a backup.
---===
Jeffrey Siegel
M/V aCappella
DeFever 53RPH
W1ACA/WDB4350
Castine, Maine
www.activecaptain.com
The Interactive Cruising Guidebook
..
Doesn't anyone take a compass bearing on two points on land anymore?
I used to do that.
Which can be done with one hand-bearing compass at the cost of less
than 50 bucks.
Now I find that setting a couple of waypoints with 90 degrees of
separation gives just as good a measure and updates the values once
per second. The bearing-to-waypoint value gives the current angle
and you can get distance-to-waypoint to get the range too. In fact,
a next generation anchor alarm could take those waypoints into
consideration to verify that the boat was still in the proper circle
of expectation as a backup.
Which costs many, many, many times 50 bucks . . . and then you have
to power the system, keep it all working, know how to use it, and
actually use it.
--Georgs, feeling like wearing the black hat today
----- Original Message -----
From: "Georgs Kolesnikovs"
Which costs many, many, many times 50 bucks . . . and then you have to
power the system, keep it all working, know how to use it, and actually
use it.
--Georgs, feeling like wearing the black hat today
Somehow all this technology has taken some of the fun out of "simply
messing about in boats" on the water.
Arild
Which costs many, many, many times 50 bucks . . . and then you have
to power the system, keep it all working, know how to use it, and
actually use it.
Hmmm...it works on the phone you already have. The software will be
free. I guess there is some power required - that's true. Sounds
like it's much more expensive to have a compass, laser range device,
etc.
Then again, try using a compass at night to get an accurate bearing.
Oddly the more expensive manual solution doesn't work for 40% of the
day.
I don't understand why there's this attack on technology all of a
sudden. With electronically controlled engines, GPS navigation, VHF
communications, radar, AIS, automatic bilge pumps, microwave ovens,
refrigeration, AC/heat, cellular and WiFi access, VacuFlush heads,
electronic bow thrusters, inverters...most of which are part of all of
our trawlers, what exactly is the problem with using an anchor alarm
AS AN OPTION? Of all the people in the world to complain about
technology, trawler owners should be way down on the list. Our
vessels are just sailboats on technology steroids!
To be quite honest, thank God there is newer and better technology for
our boating. Perhaps there are a few people on this list who could
handle sailing and navigation without any technology except tell tales
to show wind direction. Surely we all know that most of us and
certainly most people getting into a boat today couldn't safely move
down the coast without their electronic navigation pointing the way.
It's what allows more people to take part in our "hobby". I don't
curse it. I embrace it.
Somehow I think that the "good ole days" weren't all that good as
compared with what millions of people are able to do today. Memory
has a habit of softening the difficulties and erasing the pain...
---===
Jeffrey Siegel
M/V aCappella
DeFever 53RPH
W1ACA/WDB4350
Castine, Maine
www.activecaptain.com
The Interactive Cruising Guidebook
..
Jeffrey Siegel said -
I don't understand why there's this attack on technology all of a sudden.
I totally agree Jeff.
I love navigation - with paper charts and dividers, parallel rules, tide
tables and all.
But steering a course in open water for several hours bores me. Auto-pilot
is my tireless crew member.
Electronic chart-plotters show me how accurate or otherwise my navigation
is.
I use TomTom navigator on my PDA and a bluetooth GPS on land but plan the
journey with paper maps or a road atlas.
Radar can see better than I can in poor visibility and AIS complements this
nicely.
I love the toys but never totally rely on them.
Use the technology, enjoy the benefits but don't lose the traditional
skills.
Regards
Roger Bingham
France
-----Original Message-----
Then again, try using a compass at night to get an accurate bearing.
Oddly the more expensive manual solution doesn't work for 40% of the
day.
Jeff,
Do you mean to say that with the plethora of electronic gizmos on the electronic wiz-ship aCappella, you don't even have a simple
old fashioned hand bearing compass on board??? Wow - aCappella sure must be technically deficient! :-)
Anyone who doesn't have this most basic of instruments can hustle over to West Marine, where their catalog currently lists five
different hand bearing compasses that are usable at night, as well as at least seven binoculars with a build in bearing compass that
is usable at night!
Kevin
Jeff is probably like me, I have just a small boat and we prepare for the
worst and hope for the best and leave the gizmos at home. Many times we
come in through the fog, so the hand bearing compass is not of much value.
We just follow the depth contours on the paper charts with our depth sounder
or lead line. :-)
Vance B. Nelson
Superior Dreams GB32-340
Do you mean to say that with the plethora of electronic gizmos on the
electronic wiz-ship aCappella, you don't even have a simple
old fashioned hand bearing compass on board??? Wow - aCappella sure must be
technically deficient! :-)
Anyone who doesn't have this most basic of instruments can hustle over to
West Marine, where their catalog currently lists five
different hand bearing compasses that are usable at night, as well as at
least seven binoculars with a build in bearing compass that
is usable at night!
Kevin
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Siegel" jeff@activecaptain.com
I don't understand why there's this attack on technology all of a sudden.
REPY
It is NOT an attack; merely a questioning of where are we going and what are
we doing?
Surely we all know that most of us and certainly most people getting
into a boat today couldn't safely move down the coast without their
electronic navigation pointing the way. It's what allows more people to
take part in our "hobby".
REPLY
Its also what lulls many people into a false sense of complacency which
eventually leads them into dangerous situation because they do not know
better. Much has been said and written about the "dumbing down" of
America.
We have allowed ourselves to lose valuable knowledge and skills and
handing over to electronic devices s the skill set that at one time
marked the competent skipper from the non competent.
I for one happen to think those skill sets are important enough to
justifying an effort to keep them alive.
Arild
Do you mean to say that with the plethora
of electronic gizmos on the electronic
wiz-ship aCappella, you don't even have
a simple old fashioned hand bearing compass
on board???
That's not jumping to conclusions. That's a pole vault! ;-)
Where did I say that I don't have a compass? I have a lead line too.
And paper charts. I'm the only one I know of in my town who practices
dead reckoning. Heck, I even know Morse code and could blink a secret
message if I'm ever captured by pirates!
Where is it said that using technology means ignoring all other
sources of input. The smart mariner uses all available tools and
relies on no single one.
I have yet to be in any boating situation, dangerous or otherwise,
where I wanted LESS information.
---===
Jeffrey Siegel
M/V aCappella
DeFever 53RPH
W1ACA/WDB4350
Castine, Maine
www.activecaptain.com
The Interactive Cruising Guidebook
..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Siegel" jeff@activecaptain.com
I'm the only one I know of in my town who practices dead reckoning.
Where is it said that using technology means ignoring all other sources
of input. The smart mariner uses all available tools and relies on no
single one.
Jeff you made a very significant statement.
" I'm the only one I know of in my town who practices dead reckoning".
Sadly this is becoming the norm. And therein lies the danger for the
newcomes.
A common (but unstated) thread in many of the posts is a sense of
apprehension of the unknown. Quite understandable. But in the old days
these people would take the steps and learn as much as they could.
More often than not in Power Squadron classes. Enrollment in Power Squadron
advanced classes is declining. Today they place great faith and over
reliance on technology.
You yourself posted a comment earlier about how the -Map and Navionic charts
placed you 1/2 mile inland. That's not a problem for you sinc eyou know
better and moer importantly understand the cause of the error.
But a newcomer lacking your background knowledge would not necessarily
question the electronic charts and blindly follow it. I have had customers
with brand new 40 foot plus boat put it hard aground on a rocky shore
because they trusted the echart I installed on their boat the week before.
This was not an isolated incident. I could post numerous examples of this
kind of thinking. Or should that really be NON-thinking?
Arild
Jeffrey, let me assure you the "good ol days" are well named. I have many
pictures and more memories, and many friends (some on the list) who are
fortunate to have been boating before cell phones, even (believe it or not)
before TV. When you cruised into pretty much any anchorage it was either
empty or occupied by a friend. Times when TVMDC meant more than G3. To be on
a new chart was bliss. Boating was adventure, away time and friend time. For
many, many folks it is still all of that, punctuated by a new level of
frustration with the 'sometimes' nature of technology. I for one could
easily forego the frustration but then I would miss out on the language of
my new friends, pretty much all of whom see WiFi, Safari, G3,night vision
etc. first, then occasionally the forest appears briefly in the background,
just before the WII comes out for evening entertainment.
Richard
A Cappella
'79 OA
Somehow I think that the "good ole days" weren't all that good as
compared with what millions of people are able to do today. Memory
has a habit of softening the difficulties and erasing the pain...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Tomkinson" capnrich@wavecable.com
Jeffrey, let me assure you the "good ol days" are well named. I have many
pictures and more memories, and many friends (some on the list) who are
fortunate to have been boating before cell phones, even (believe it or
not) before TV. When you cruised into pretty much any anchorage it was
either empty or occupied by a friend. Times when TVMDC meant more than G3.
REPLY
Amen to that. Judging by the content of previous posts ove several
months; many anchorages are now occupied by people siting ensconched
inside their closed up air conditioned cocoon and shielded from prying
eyes by limo screen on all the windows.
They are busy watching TV on the Follow Me or direct TV satellite feed or
messaging with their acquaintances half a continent away sometimes. Or
maybe on the cell phone solving a business crisis. Some are even busy
posting to T&T. <VBG>
Strangers approaching your vessel is just as likely to be viewed with
suspicion as with a welcoming hail ot "come aboard for a drink".
Especially if the anchorage is remote in distant lands.
In some juristictions the strange boat approaching may also be the water
cops rousting you for over staying a municipal time limit, or doing a
potty patrol.
Yes, the times, they are achanging. some for the better but as often for
the worse.
I agree with Richard that we have somehow lost something that existed in
the good ole days.
I do not get the same atisfaction from a Beep to signify arrival at a
waypoint as I did when the outer sea buoy emerged from the fog. Making
that land fall after a long overnight passage was real satisfaction. It
proved I actually had a skill beyond being able to push a button.
But like Jeff I would never refuse the use of modern technology unless it
was for a contest like Predicted log or old fashioned DR navigation
competitions.
Oh yeah I also like wooden boats. < smile> so shoot me for being a
dinosaur.
Arild
To be on
a new chart was bliss. Boating was adventure, away time and friend time.
For many, many folks it is still all of that, punctuated by a new level of
frustration with the 'sometimes' nature of technology. I for one could
easily forego the frustration but then I would miss out on the language of
my new friends, pretty much all of whom see WiFi, Safari, G3,night vision
etc. first, then occasionally the forest appears briefly in the
background, just before the WII comes out for evening entertainment.
Richard
A Cappella
'79 OA
Somehow I think that the "good ole days" weren't all that good as
compared with what millions of people are able to do today. Memory
has a habit of softening the difficulties and erasing the pain...
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taking hand bearing is fine but doesn't provide the level of info that you
get from the GPS.
I set the hook an hour ago, bearings look fine but looking at my plotter i
see a nice thick arc. I know we havent' dragged a foot.
Last night, there was a slight wind shift, the little garmin I keep by my
bed beeped since we were breaking the anchor alarm i had set. Didnt' have
to get up and take bearings, etc... the screen told the picture. I reset the
alarm and went back to sleep.
Pascal
THE FINAL WORD - its all so simple I wonder what's wrong with all of you. So
here is the last word on the anchor subject,
You toss over the hook, set it with lots of chain. When you feel it has set
well and all is right with the world to take a piece of tape and mark the
side of your hull. If you anchor drags, you won't be in the same place as
you marked and you can then do what you have to do.
This works well for marking good fishing holes too.
George aka Al
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Pascal Gademer pascal@sandbarhopper.comwrote:
taking hand bearing is fine but doesn't provide the level of info that you
get from the GPS.
I set the hook an hour ago, bearings look fine but looking at my plotter i
see a nice thick arc. I know we havent' dragged a foot.
Last night, there was a slight wind shift, the little garmin I keep by my
bed beeped since we were breaking the anchor alarm i had set. Didnt' have
to get up and take bearings, etc... the screen told the picture. I reset the
alarm and went back to sleep.
Pascal
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Oh god Al, now everyone is going to want to know where to get the tape, and what color is best to use. Thanks!
By the way, where do you get the tape? Would it work better if you put a piece of tape, adjacent to the tape on the hull, on the water too?
Rudy and Jill
Briney Bug, Port St Joe, Fl
THE FINAL WORD When you
feel it has set
well and all is right with the world to take a piece of
tape and mark the
side of your hull. If you anchor drags, you won't be in
the same place as
you marked and you can then do what you have to do.
I used to use the .01NM ring but I spent so much on tape I can't afford fuel
for the boat...
Rip Tyler
m/v Severn Exposure
Pearson True North 38
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of Rudy
and Jill Sechez
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:20 PM
To: Al Dente
Cc: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: Anchor watch and Tape
Oh god Al, now everyone is going to want to know where to get the tape, and
what color is best to use. Thanks!
By the way, where do you get the tape? Would it work better if you put a
piece of tape, adjacent to the tape on the hull, on the water too?
Rudy and Jill
Briney Bug, Port St Joe, Fl
THE FINAL WORD When you
feel it has set
well and all is right with the world to take a piece of
tape and mark the
side of your hull. If you anchor drags, you won't be in
the same place as
you marked and you can then do what you have to do.
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Does the tape come in reflective colors (safer at night), will oven cleaner
remove it, what is the molecular weight of the sticky stuff used..........
inquiring minds want to know!
Warren
I use the 20 Micron nylon for the first line then switch to the brown 10
Micron chain for the second one.
Phil & Sally Reynolds
The Sally Ann
42 Hershine SDMY
Alameda, Ca.
Does the tape come in reflective colors (safer at night), will oven cleaner
remove it, what is the molecular weight of the sticky stuff used..........
inquiring minds want to know!
Warren
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tes2_042009
Does the tape come in reflective colors (safer at
night), will oven cleaner remove it, what is the
molecular weight of the sticky stuff used...
Would using electrical tape be considered a "technology" solution?
---===
Jeffrey Siegel
M/V aCappella
DeFever 53RPH
W1ACA/WDB4350
Castine, Maine
www.activecaptain.com
The Interactive Cruising Guidebook
..
gluing a line of leds to the hull would.
Warren
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey Siegel
..
If you use electrical tape - remember it must be bonded
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Jeffrey Siegel
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:49 PM
To: Warren Hall
Cc: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: Anchor watch and Tape
Does the tape come in reflective colors (safer at
night), will oven cleaner remove it, what is the
molecular weight of the sticky stuff used...
Would using electrical tape be considered a "technology" solution?
---===
Jeffrey Siegel
M/V aCappella
DeFever 53RPH
W1ACA/WDB4350
Castine, Maine
www.activecaptain.com
The Interactive Cruising Guidebook
..
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If you use electrical tape - remember it must be bonded
These reponses need to be gathered, and turned into a book. We love them.
Rudy and Jill
Briney Bug, Port St Joe, Fl
"Jim Boyd" jboydjr@comcast.net writes:
If you use electrical tape
Well, that's just the problem today. Everybody is depending on this high-tech
electrical tape without any thought about the skills that we are loosing with
regards to steam tape, donkey tape and even good old fashioned 8-track tape.
Back in the seventies I was able to use a single 8-track tape to provide
music for a whole night, and the songs only repeated every 40 minutes or so.
When I mention 8-track tape to boaters today all they want to talk about is
this here "electrical" tape. Sad to see that so much important knowledge is
being lost.
Scott Welch
"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn
out." - John Wooden