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Re: [PUP] chart lists

DC
Dave Cooper
Sat, Dec 22, 2007 6:31 PM

Scott, as you travel further form the US/Canada you'll find that the chart
situation is less and less reliable.
There is a temptation because you have a chip with a chart displayed on the
screen that it must be reasonably accurate. We see lots of broken boats who
also had this same feeling.

We have paper charts, C-map on the Raymarine and Navionics on the tender.
None are accurate and each is different. In addition the world chart that is
part of the Coastal Explorer is some cases is more accurate than the other
three!!

When we recently went softly at 1-2 kts aground in a large lagoon, Laguna
Grande, none of the chart's showed anything in this whole area. We had used
the tender to scope it our before transiting. Even so we missed a pinnacle
that has 2-3' over it and was about 20 odd feet in size in the middle of
40-50 ft of water. The water clarity wasn't good from runoff the day before.
No damage done other than some bottom paint removed from our keel.

Purchasing charts to try to have the latest ones is a waste of money, IMHO.
As the new ones look just like the old ones and have the same source date of
1700 something unless you get the newer ones made from data in the 1800's.

As Bob A said Columbus made it and used common sense and good seamanship.
Having a good watch, watching the depth, using any and all aids will get you
thru most places.

There are many cruising guides that help in some places along with other
cruise info. A call on the radio to one of the many nets will also get you
into some uncharted waters. Quite often a local will help you thru the reef
pass that doesn't seem obvious.

BTW, in case you missed my warning's of the past: Never, never, never ever
enter a harbor or anchorage at night in Central American, South America or
the Caribbean. You have no idea of where you are, the locals may have fish
pots or even nets strung completely across the entrance and a hundred other
issues. Having charts on a screen, radar and your night vision unit will
falsely empower you to have a go. Don't do it! Resist the urge, time your
arrival for a daylight entry and if this doesn't work spend the night at
sea. Failure to follow this rule is a good way to lose your vessel.

We recently stood out to sea for 6 hours before going into Puerto La Cruz at
daybreak even tho I've been there many times. To much risk, IMHO.

So save your money and if you need to spend it do so with the local kids,
school or clinic. I'm sure they'll appreciate "Santa's" visit ;-)

As always YMMV....

Dave & Nancy
Swan Song
Roughwater 58

Scott, as you travel further form the US/Canada you'll find that the chart situation is less and less reliable. There is a temptation because you have a chip with a chart displayed on the screen that it must be reasonably accurate. We see lots of broken boats who also had this same feeling. We have paper charts, C-map on the Raymarine and Navionics on the tender. None are accurate and each is different. In addition the world chart that is part of the Coastal Explorer is some cases is more accurate than the other three!! When we recently went softly at 1-2 kts aground in a large lagoon, Laguna Grande, none of the chart's showed anything in this whole area. We had used the tender to scope it our before transiting. Even so we missed a pinnacle that has 2-3' over it and was about 20 odd feet in size in the middle of 40-50 ft of water. The water clarity wasn't good from runoff the day before. No damage done other than some bottom paint removed from our keel. Purchasing charts to try to have the latest ones is a waste of money, IMHO. As the new ones look just like the old ones and have the same source date of 1700 something unless you get the newer ones made from data in the 1800's. As Bob A said Columbus made it and used common sense and good seamanship. Having a good watch, watching the depth, using any and all aids will get you thru most places. There are many cruising guides that help in some places along with other cruise info. A call on the radio to one of the many nets will also get you into some uncharted waters. Quite often a local will help you thru the reef pass that doesn't seem obvious. BTW, in case you missed my warning's of the past: Never, never, never ever enter a harbor or anchorage at night in Central American, South America or the Caribbean. You have no idea of where you are, the locals may have fish pots or even nets strung completely across the entrance and a hundred other issues. Having charts on a screen, radar and your night vision unit will falsely empower you to have a go. Don't do it! Resist the urge, time your arrival for a daylight entry and if this doesn't work spend the night at sea. Failure to follow this rule is a good way to lose your vessel. We recently stood out to sea for 6 hours before going into Puerto La Cruz at daybreak even tho I've been there many times. To much risk, IMHO. So save your money and if you need to spend it do so with the local kids, school or clinic. I'm sure they'll appreciate "Santa's" visit ;-) As always YMMV.... Dave & Nancy Swan Song Roughwater 58
RR
Ron Rogers
Sat, Dec 22, 2007 8:39 PM

Gee Scott, the East side of California is awfully rocky and too shallow for
your boat.  {8*))  Ron Rogers

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott E. Bulger" scottebulger@gmail.com

| So I've ordered a set of charts for the E side of CA and will stay with
what I have for the W.

Gee Scott, the East side of California is awfully rocky and too shallow for your boat. {8*)) Ron Rogers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott E. Bulger" <scottebulger@gmail.com> | So I've ordered a set of charts for the E side of CA and will stay with what I have for the W.
SE
Scott E. Bulger
Sat, Dec 22, 2007 10:03 PM

Dave provides sage advice, all of which I will follow to a T.

I visited a boat here in LP and looked at charts that Maptech had provided
in the last year or two and as Dave has suggested they are the same.  So
I've ordered a set of charts for the E side of CA and will stay with what I
have for the W.

Regarding all of Daves advice, I assure you, even though Ive invested in a
fair amount of technology to aid my navigation, I take everything he says as
golden.  I don't want these charts so I can set my autopilot on a course and
go to sleep.  I want them so I have as much information at my disposal as I
could possibly use.  I also have the paper charts, which I even made sure
were stacked in order of ports passed along the way.

Thanks!  Scott

Dave provides sage advice, all of which I will follow to a T. I visited a boat here in LP and looked at charts that Maptech had provided in the last year or two and as Dave has suggested they are the same. So I've ordered a set of charts for the E side of CA and will stay with what I have for the W. Regarding all of Daves advice, I assure you, even though Ive invested in a fair amount of technology to aid my navigation, I take everything he says as golden. I don't want these charts so I can set my autopilot on a course and go to sleep. I want them so I have as much information at my disposal as I could possibly use. I also have the paper charts, which I even made sure were stacked in order of ports passed along the way. Thanks! Scott
SE
Scott E. Bulger
Sat, Dec 22, 2007 11:17 PM

Ron mused:  Gee Scott, the East side of California is awfully rocky and too
shallow for
your boat.  {8*))  Ron Rogers

Those of us "in the know" know:

CA = Central America

Just kidding, too many tlas (three letter acronyms) in my previous life

Scott

CD shipped yesterday, chart cost $240, shipping $50?  Huh?  $50 to ship a
CD, and it ships from the manufacture?  Watch those internet retailers and
their "discounts"

Ron mused: Gee Scott, the East side of California is awfully rocky and too shallow for your boat. {8*)) Ron Rogers Those of us "in the know" know: CA = Central America Just kidding, too many tlas (three letter acronyms) in my previous life Scott CD shipped yesterday, chart cost $240, shipping $50? Huh? $50 to ship a CD, and it ships from the manufacture? Watch those internet retailers and their "discounts"
RR
Ron Rogers
Sat, Dec 22, 2007 11:21 PM

Maybe the $50 includes customs duty or something?  Ron Rogers

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott E. Bulger" scottebulger@gmail.com
|
| CD shipped yesterday, chart cost $240, shipping $50?  Huh?  $50 to ship a
| CD, and it ships from the manufacture?  Watch those internet retailers and
| their "discounts"

Maybe the $50 includes customs duty or something? Ron Rogers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott E. Bulger" <scottebulger@gmail.com> | | CD shipped yesterday, chart cost $240, shipping $50? Huh? $50 to ship a | CD, and it ships from the manufacture? Watch those internet retailers and | their "discounts"