OK it has been a while and I have promised to share results. In the next few days I will put whats on paper into a schematic and share. I won't dwell on all of the stuff from October to now. But several front end rcvrs, and several analog Costas loops were built using MC1496s and another using AD633 multipliers. Various other glue. Nothing to rave about. What I will detail is what I have done with quite common parts. But what it isn't is a kit or absolute or anything else. It can be made better. Don't doubt that for a second. So what I do have are 4 pretty simple and reasonable parts of the solution. It really does work even on the east coast. Though MSF can really cause issues ocasionally. One key part the costas loop is a design I stumbled across from 1971 designers casebook electronics magazine ca herbst. Was cleaning out old papers. The article left a lot of detail out. But the principle is solid. It was surprising at how well it worked the first time. So what I will share with the Time-nuts are the following schematics. A 60 KHz TRF receiver. Takes a 1uv signal and increases it to 2-4 V PP with AGC and soft limiter. It includes a 60 Khz xtal filter to set the passband and a tuned stage or 2. There are quite a few possibilities on the internet. Tried a few. This is my version. But others would work just as well. Digital costas loop using nothing more the a 74hc86 quad exclusive or. Resistors and caps to integrate. The 12 Mhz VCO. Why 12? Thats the crystals I have. Boy can this area use some help. The divider. Cmos 12 Mhz to 0 and 90 degrees at 60 Khz. This is straight out of any digital application manual. No magic at all. When combined this creates a complete WWVB costas loop solution that delivers a 60 Khz output locked to wwvb without the phase modulation. A byproduct is the digital data from the new signal. Not used. Not even to drive a led. A path could be added that literally inverts or not the original AM signal so that spectracom 8170s and Truetime DC60s would work and recover time correctly. That is a piece O cake. So I will get this into a schematic to share over the next day or two. By the way on performance the system handles sun rise and sets and keeps ticking. Using a fluke 207 driven by a Rb ref to watch for failures. This is recorded on a 4 channel chart recorder program on a laptop. I have used the system to drive 2 X HP VLF 117s and they track as w Lots of areas that might be improved AGC control and time constants. Adding a opamp to the 0 degree phase VCO control voltage and also adjusting Time constants. Though the 12 Mhz oscillator is really standard parts just could not find something reasonable and off the shelf. Digikey or Mouser stuff. something with 4 pins and a few $. By the way the control voltage is .5V/.1Hz. Regards Paul WB8TSL

Hi There are a variety of VCXO's and TCVCXO's on the Mouser site. Prices seem to range from $3 to $10 for the reasonable candidates. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fox/FOX924B-10000/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsBj6bBr9Q9afDupvxlfd2QBmF8W0236Ww%3d Is one of the many. It runs at 10 MHz, CMOS output, and actually *is* in stock. Price is $6.41 for a single piece. I'm sure that a bit more digging could get that down a bit. The auction sites also have similar parts. Bob On Mar 28, 2013, at 9:01 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > OK it has been a while and I have promised to share results. In the next > few days I will put whats on paper into a schematic and share. I won't > dwell on all of the stuff from October to now. But several front end rcvrs, > and several analog Costas loops were built using MC1496s and another using > AD633 multipliers. Various other glue. > Nothing to rave about. > > What I will detail is what I have done with quite common parts. But what it > isn't is a kit or absolute or anything else. It can be made better. Don't > doubt that for a second. > So what I do have are 4 pretty simple and reasonable parts of the solution. > It really does work even on the east coast. Though MSF can really cause > issues ocasionally. One key part the costas loop is a design I stumbled > across from 1971 designers casebook electronics magazine ca herbst. Was > cleaning out old papers. The article left a lot of detail out. But the > principle is solid. It was surprising at how well it worked the first time. > So what I will share with the Time-nuts are the following schematics. > > A 60 KHz TRF receiver. Takes a 1uv signal and increases it to 2-4 V PP with > AGC and soft limiter. It includes a 60 Khz xtal filter to set the passband > and a tuned stage or 2. There are quite a few possibilities on the > internet. Tried a few. This is my version. But others would work just as > well. > > Digital costas loop using nothing more the a 74hc86 quad exclusive or. > Resistors and caps to integrate. > > The 12 Mhz VCO. Why 12? Thats the crystals I have. Boy can this area use > some help. > > The divider. Cmos 12 Mhz to 0 and 90 degrees at 60 Khz. This is straight > out of any digital application manual. No magic at all. > > When combined this creates a complete WWVB costas loop solution that > delivers a 60 Khz output locked to wwvb without the phase modulation. A > byproduct is the digital data from the new signal. Not used. Not even to > drive a led. > > A path could be added that literally inverts or not the original AM signal > so that spectracom 8170s and Truetime DC60s would work and recover time > correctly. That is a piece O cake. > > So I will get this into a schematic to share over the next day or two. > By the way on performance the system handles sun rise and sets and keeps > ticking. Using a fluke 207 driven by a Rb ref to watch for failures. This > is recorded on a 4 channel chart recorder program on a laptop. I have used > the system to drive 2 X HP VLF 117s and they track as w > Lots of areas that might be improved AGC control and time constants. Adding > a opamp to the 0 degree phase VCO control voltage and also adjusting Time > constants. Though the 12 Mhz oscillator is really standard parts just could > not find something reasonable and off the shelf. Digikey or Mouser stuff. > something with 4 pins and a few $. By the way the control voltage is > .5V/.1Hz. > > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

If I'm not mistaken, the oscillator frequency needs to be an integer multiple of 240 KHz. Dale Sent from my iPhone On Mar 29, 2013, at 8:37, Bob Camp <lists@rtty.us> wrote: > Hi > > There are a variety of VCXO's and TCVCXO's on the Mouser site. Prices seem to range from $3 to $10 for the reasonable candidates. > > http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fox/FOX924B-10000/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsBj6bBr9Q9afDupvxlfd2QBmF8W0236Ww%3d > > Is one of the many. It runs at 10 MHz, CMOS output, and actually *is* in stock. Price is $6.41 for a single piece. I'm sure that a bit more digging could get that down a bit. The auction sites also have similar parts. > > Bob > > > On Mar 28, 2013, at 9:01 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > >> OK it has been a while and I have promised to share results. In the next >> few days I will put whats on paper into a schematic and share. I won't >> dwell on all of the stuff from October to now. But several front end rcvrs, >> and several analog Costas loops were built using MC1496s and another using >> AD633 multipliers. Various other glue. >> Nothing to rave about. >> >> What I will detail is what I have done with quite common parts. But what it >> isn't is a kit or absolute or anything else. It can be made better. Don't >> doubt that for a second. >> So what I do have are 4 pretty simple and reasonable parts of the solution. >> It really does work even on the east coast. Though MSF can really cause >> issues ocasionally. One key part the costas loop is a design I stumbled >> across from 1971 designers casebook electronics magazine ca herbst. Was >> cleaning out old papers. The article left a lot of detail out. But the >> principle is solid. It was surprising at how well it worked the first time. >> So what I will share with the Time-nuts are the following schematics. >> >> A 60 KHz TRF receiver. Takes a 1uv signal and increases it to 2-4 V PP with >> AGC and soft limiter. It includes a 60 Khz xtal filter to set the passband >> and a tuned stage or 2. There are quite a few possibilities on the >> internet. Tried a few. This is my version. But others would work just as >> well. >> >> Digital costas loop using nothing more the a 74hc86 quad exclusive or. >> Resistors and caps to integrate. >> >> The 12 Mhz VCO. Why 12? Thats the crystals I have. Boy can this area use >> some help. >> >> The divider. Cmos 12 Mhz to 0 and 90 degrees at 60 Khz. This is straight >> out of any digital application manual. No magic at all. >> >> When combined this creates a complete WWVB costas loop solution that >> delivers a 60 Khz output locked to wwvb without the phase modulation. A >> byproduct is the digital data from the new signal. Not used. Not even to >> drive a led. >> >> A path could be added that literally inverts or not the original AM signal >> so that spectracom 8170s and Truetime DC60s would work and recover time >> correctly. That is a piece O cake. >> >> So I will get this into a schematic to share over the next day or two. >> By the way on performance the system handles sun rise and sets and keeps >> ticking. Using a fluke 207 driven by a Rb ref to watch for failures. This >> is recorded on a 4 channel chart recorder program on a laptop. I have used >> the system to drive 2 X HP VLF 117s and they track as w >> Lots of areas that might be improved AGC control and time constants. Adding >> a opamp to the 0 degree phase VCO control voltage and also adjusting Time >> constants. Though the 12 Mhz oscillator is really standard parts just could >> not find something reasonable and off the shelf. Digikey or Mouser stuff. >> something with 4 pins and a few $. By the way the control voltage is >> .5V/.1Hz. >> >> Regards >> Paul >> WB8TSL >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

The data sheet indicates the Fox924B is not voltage controllable, wever. -Don -----Original Message----- From: Bob Camp Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 7:37 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB d-psk-r update. Seems a reasonable solution Hi There are a variety of VCXO's and TCVCXO's on the Mouser site. Prices seem to range from $3 to $10 for the reasonable candidates. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fox/FOX924B-10000/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsBj6bBr9Q9afDupvxlfd2QBmF8W0236Ww%3d Is one of the many. It runs at 10 MHz, CMOS output, and actually *is* in stock. Price is $6.41 for a single piece. I'm sure that a bit more digging could get that down a bit. The auction sites also have similar parts. Bob On Mar 28, 2013, at 9:01 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > OK it has been a while and I have promised to share results. In the next > few days I will put whats on paper into a schematic and share. I won't > dwell on all of the stuff from October to now. But several front end > rcvrs, > and several analog Costas loops were built using MC1496s and another using > AD633 multipliers. Various other glue. > Nothing to rave about. > > What I will detail is what I have done with quite common parts. But what > it > isn't is a kit or absolute or anything else. It can be made better. Don't > doubt that for a second. > So what I do have are 4 pretty simple and reasonable parts of the > solution. > It really does work even on the east coast. Though MSF can really cause > issues ocasionally. One key part the costas loop is a design I stumbled > across from 1971 designers casebook electronics magazine ca herbst. Was > cleaning out old papers. The article left a lot of detail out. But the > principle is solid. It was surprising at how well it worked the first > time. > So what I will share with the Time-nuts are the following schematics. > > A 60 KHz TRF receiver. Takes a 1uv signal and increases it to 2-4 V PP > with > AGC and soft limiter. It includes a 60 Khz xtal filter to set the passband > and a tuned stage or 2. There are quite a few possibilities on the > internet. Tried a few. This is my version. But others would work just as > well. > > Digital costas loop using nothing more the a 74hc86 quad exclusive or. > Resistors and caps to integrate. > > The 12 Mhz VCO. Why 12? Thats the crystals I have. Boy can this area use > some help. > > The divider. Cmos 12 Mhz to 0 and 90 degrees at 60 Khz. This is straight > out of any digital application manual. No magic at all. > > When combined this creates a complete WWVB costas loop solution that > delivers a 60 Khz output locked to wwvb without the phase modulation. A > byproduct is the digital data from the new signal. Not used. Not even to > drive a led. > > A path could be added that literally inverts or not the original AM signal > so that spectracom 8170s and Truetime DC60s would work and recover time > correctly. That is a piece O cake. > > So I will get this into a schematic to share over the next day or two. > By the way on performance the system handles sun rise and sets and keeps > ticking. Using a fluke 207 driven by a Rb ref to watch for failures. This > is recorded on a 4 channel chart recorder program on a laptop. I have used > the system to drive 2 X HP VLF 117s and they track as w > Lots of areas that might be improved AGC control and time constants. > Adding > a opamp to the 0 degree phase VCO control voltage and also adjusting Time > constants. Though the 12 Mhz oscillator is really standard parts just > could > not find something reasonable and off the shelf. Digikey or Mouser stuff. > something with 4 pins and a few $. By the way the control voltage is > .5V/.1Hz. > > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Hi Silly me to not dig all the way to the bottom of the data sheet …. Looks like the auction sites may be the better choice. Bob On Mar 29, 2013, at 9:35 AM, dlewis6767 <dlewis6767@austin.rr.com> wrote: > The data sheet indicates the Fox924B is not voltage controllable, wever. -Don > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Bob Camp > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 7:37 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB d-psk-r update. Seems a reasonable solution > > Hi > > There are a variety of VCXO's and TCVCXO's on the Mouser site. Prices seem to range from $3 to $10 for the reasonable candidates. > > http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fox/FOX924B-10000/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsBj6bBr9Q9afDupvxlfd2QBmF8W0236Ww%3d > > Is one of the many. It runs at 10 MHz, CMOS output, and actually *is* in stock. Price is $6.41 for a single piece. I'm sure that a bit more digging could get that down a bit. The auction sites also have similar parts. > > Bob > > > On Mar 28, 2013, at 9:01 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > >> OK it has been a while and I have promised to share results. In the next >> few days I will put whats on paper into a schematic and share. I won't >> dwell on all of the stuff from October to now. But several front end rcvrs, >> and several analog Costas loops were built using MC1496s and another using >> AD633 multipliers. Various other glue. >> Nothing to rave about. >> >> What I will detail is what I have done with quite common parts. But what it >> isn't is a kit or absolute or anything else. It can be made better. Don't >> doubt that for a second. >> So what I do have are 4 pretty simple and reasonable parts of the solution. >> It really does work even on the east coast. Though MSF can really cause >> issues ocasionally. One key part the costas loop is a design I stumbled >> across from 1971 designers casebook electronics magazine ca herbst. Was >> cleaning out old papers. The article left a lot of detail out. But the >> principle is solid. It was surprising at how well it worked the first time. >> So what I will share with the Time-nuts are the following schematics. >> >> A 60 KHz TRF receiver. Takes a 1uv signal and increases it to 2-4 V PP with >> AGC and soft limiter. It includes a 60 Khz xtal filter to set the passband >> and a tuned stage or 2. There are quite a few possibilities on the >> internet. Tried a few. This is my version. But others would work just as >> well. >> >> Digital costas loop using nothing more the a 74hc86 quad exclusive or. >> Resistors and caps to integrate. >> >> The 12 Mhz VCO. Why 12? Thats the crystals I have. Boy can this area use >> some help. >> >> The divider. Cmos 12 Mhz to 0 and 90 degrees at 60 Khz. This is straight >> out of any digital application manual. No magic at all. >> >> When combined this creates a complete WWVB costas loop solution that >> delivers a 60 Khz output locked to wwvb without the phase modulation. A >> byproduct is the digital data from the new signal. Not used. Not even to >> drive a led. >> >> A path could be added that literally inverts or not the original AM signal >> so that spectracom 8170s and Truetime DC60s would work and recover time >> correctly. That is a piece O cake. >> >> So I will get this into a schematic to share over the next day or two. >> By the way on performance the system handles sun rise and sets and keeps >> ticking. Using a fluke 207 driven by a Rb ref to watch for failures. This >> is recorded on a 4 channel chart recorder program on a laptop. I have used >> the system to drive 2 X HP VLF 117s and they track as w >> Lots of areas that might be improved AGC control and time constants. Adding >> a opamp to the 0 degree phase VCO control voltage and also adjusting Time >> constants. Though the 12 Mhz oscillator is really standard parts just could >> not find something reasonable and off the shelf. Digikey or Mouser stuff. >> something with 4 pins and a few $. By the way the control voltage is >> .5V/.1Hz. >> >> Regards >> Paul >> WB8TSL >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Indeed thats the problem. The VCO needs to be available grabbing something from ebays good for me but not you. Also the oscillator does need to be an integer of 240 Khz and Ideally divide on a separate chain to 1 or 2 Mhz so it could be multiplied to 5 or 10 Mhz as an example. Though for the d-psk-r thats not really of interest. A seperate item is that just ahead of the divide by 4 sine and cosine divide it may want a 50% duty cycle though thats most likely not true. Right now with 12 Mhz I do get 50% duty cycle. Could with 9.6 also. Also I have as an example some 9.6 Mhz Vectron VCOs (How could you go wrong its a vectron) and the tuning voltage and range are simply to large. As I mentioned the homebrew osc is .5V for .1 Hz. The challenge I have with Digikey and Mouser is figuring out from the info what one to buy. I have no plans to try and buy 10 different oscillators hoping one hits some target. So thats a piece of the puzzle. I did get much of the rcvr into ExpressSCH last night and will revalidate what I have in the diagram tonight. Regards and thanks for the coments. Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Bob Camp <lists@rtty.us> wrote: > Hi > > Silly me to not dig all the way to the bottom of the data sheet …. > > Looks like the auction sites may be the better choice. > > Bob > > On Mar 29, 2013, at 9:35 AM, dlewis6767 <dlewis6767@austin.rr.com> wrote: > > > The data sheet indicates the Fox924B is not voltage controllable, wever. > -Don > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Bob Camp > > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 7:37 AM > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB d-psk-r update. Seems a reasonable solution > > > > Hi > > > > There are a variety of VCXO's and TCVCXO's on the Mouser site. Prices > seem to range from $3 to $10 for the reasonable candidates. > > > > > http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fox/FOX924B-10000/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsBj6bBr9Q9afDupvxlfd2QBmF8W0236Ww%3d > > > > Is one of the many. It runs at 10 MHz, CMOS output, and actually *is* in > stock. Price is $6.41 for a single piece. I'm sure that a bit more digging > could get that down a bit. The auction sites also have similar parts. > > > > Bob > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2013, at 9:01 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> OK it has been a while and I have promised to share results. In the next > >> few days I will put whats on paper into a schematic and share. I won't > >> dwell on all of the stuff from October to now. But several front end > rcvrs, > >> and several analog Costas loops were built using MC1496s and another > using > >> AD633 multipliers. Various other glue. > >> Nothing to rave about. > >> > >> What I will detail is what I have done with quite common parts. But > what it > >> isn't is a kit or absolute or anything else. It can be made better. > Don't > >> doubt that for a second. > >> So what I do have are 4 pretty simple and reasonable parts of the > solution. > >> It really does work even on the east coast. Though MSF can really cause > >> issues ocasionally. One key part the costas loop is a design I stumbled > >> across from 1971 designers casebook electronics magazine ca herbst. Was > >> cleaning out old papers. The article left a lot of detail out. But the > >> principle is solid. It was surprising at how well it worked the first > time. > >> So what I will share with the Time-nuts are the following schematics. > >> > >> A 60 KHz TRF receiver. Takes a 1uv signal and increases it to 2-4 V PP > with > >> AGC and soft limiter. It includes a 60 Khz xtal filter to set the > passband > >> and a tuned stage or 2. There are quite a few possibilities on the > >> internet. Tried a few. This is my version. But others would work just as > >> well. > >> > >> Digital costas loop using nothing more the a 74hc86 quad exclusive or. > >> Resistors and caps to integrate. > >> > >> The 12 Mhz VCO. Why 12? Thats the crystals I have. Boy can this area use > >> some help. > >> > >> The divider. Cmos 12 Mhz to 0 and 90 degrees at 60 Khz. This is straight > >> out of any digital application manual. No magic at all. > >> > >> When combined this creates a complete WWVB costas loop solution that > >> delivers a 60 Khz output locked to wwvb without the phase modulation. A > >> byproduct is the digital data from the new signal. Not used. Not even to > >> drive a led. > >> > >> A path could be added that literally inverts or not the original AM > signal > >> so that spectracom 8170s and Truetime DC60s would work and recover time > >> correctly. That is a piece O cake. > >> > >> So I will get this into a schematic to share over the next day or two. > >> By the way on performance the system handles sun rise and sets and keeps > >> ticking. Using a fluke 207 driven by a Rb ref to watch for failures. > This > >> is recorded on a 4 channel chart recorder program on a laptop. I have > used > >> the system to drive 2 X HP VLF 117s and they track as w > >> Lots of areas that might be improved AGC control and time constants. > Adding > >> a opamp to the 0 degree phase VCO control voltage and also adjusting > Time > >> constants. Though the 12 Mhz oscillator is really standard parts just > could > >> not find something reasonable and off the shelf. Digikey or Mouser > stuff. > >> something with 4 pins and a few $. By the way the control voltage is > >> .5V/.1Hz. > >> > >> Regards > >> Paul > >> WB8TSL > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi Too much tuning range is easy enough to fix. Use a pot to set it on frequency and then hook it to the rest of the "stuff" with a fixed resistor. The gotcha would be if the poor thing drifts so much that it *needs* the wide range to stay in lock. My guess is that you could buy a hundred VCXO's at auction for less than the cost of trying a dozen samples. Bob On Mar 29, 2013, at 11:03 AM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > Indeed thats the problem. The VCO needs to be available grabbing something > from ebays good for me but not you. Also the oscillator does need to be an > integer of 240 Khz and Ideally divide on a separate chain to 1 or 2 Mhz so > it could be multiplied to 5 or 10 Mhz as an example. Though for the d-psk-r > thats not really of interest. A seperate item is that just ahead of the > divide by 4 sine and cosine divide it may want a 50% duty cycle though > thats most likely not true. Right now with 12 Mhz I do get 50% duty cycle. > Could with 9.6 also. > > Also I have as an example some 9.6 Mhz Vectron VCOs (How could you go wrong > its a vectron) and the tuning voltage and range are simply to large. As I > mentioned the homebrew osc is .5V for .1 Hz. The challenge I have with > Digikey and Mouser is figuring out from the info what one to buy. I have no > plans to try and buy 10 different oscillators hoping one hits some target. > > So thats a piece of the puzzle. I did get much of the rcvr into ExpressSCH > last night and will revalidate what I have in the diagram tonight. > Regards and thanks for the coments. > Paul > WB8TSL > > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Bob Camp <lists@rtty.us> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Silly me to not dig all the way to the bottom of the data sheet …. >> >> Looks like the auction sites may be the better choice. >> >> Bob >> >> On Mar 29, 2013, at 9:35 AM, dlewis6767 <dlewis6767@austin.rr.com> wrote: >> >>> The data sheet indicates the Fox924B is not voltage controllable, wever. >> -Don >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Bob Camp >>> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 7:37 AM >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB d-psk-r update. Seems a reasonable solution >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> There are a variety of VCXO's and TCVCXO's on the Mouser site. Prices >> seem to range from $3 to $10 for the reasonable candidates. >>> >>> >> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fox/FOX924B-10000/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsBj6bBr9Q9afDupvxlfd2QBmF8W0236Ww%3d >>> >>> Is one of the many. It runs at 10 MHz, CMOS output, and actually *is* in >> stock. Price is $6.41 for a single piece. I'm sure that a bit more digging >> could get that down a bit. The auction sites also have similar parts. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >>> On Mar 28, 2013, at 9:01 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> OK it has been a while and I have promised to share results. In the next >>>> few days I will put whats on paper into a schematic and share. I won't >>>> dwell on all of the stuff from October to now. But several front end >> rcvrs, >>>> and several analog Costas loops were built using MC1496s and another >> using >>>> AD633 multipliers. Various other glue. >>>> Nothing to rave about. >>>> >>>> What I will detail is what I have done with quite common parts. But >> what it >>>> isn't is a kit or absolute or anything else. It can be made better. >> Don't >>>> doubt that for a second. >>>> So what I do have are 4 pretty simple and reasonable parts of the >> solution. >>>> It really does work even on the east coast. Though MSF can really cause >>>> issues ocasionally. One key part the costas loop is a design I stumbled >>>> across from 1971 designers casebook electronics magazine ca herbst. Was >>>> cleaning out old papers. The article left a lot of detail out. But the >>>> principle is solid. It was surprising at how well it worked the first >> time. >>>> So what I will share with the Time-nuts are the following schematics. >>>> >>>> A 60 KHz TRF receiver. Takes a 1uv signal and increases it to 2-4 V PP >> with >>>> AGC and soft limiter. It includes a 60 Khz xtal filter to set the >> passband >>>> and a tuned stage or 2. There are quite a few possibilities on the >>>> internet. Tried a few. This is my version. But others would work just as >>>> well. >>>> >>>> Digital costas loop using nothing more the a 74hc86 quad exclusive or. >>>> Resistors and caps to integrate. >>>> >>>> The 12 Mhz VCO. Why 12? Thats the crystals I have. Boy can this area use >>>> some help. >>>> >>>> The divider. Cmos 12 Mhz to 0 and 90 degrees at 60 Khz. This is straight >>>> out of any digital application manual. No magic at all. >>>> >>>> When combined this creates a complete WWVB costas loop solution that >>>> delivers a 60 Khz output locked to wwvb without the phase modulation. A >>>> byproduct is the digital data from the new signal. Not used. Not even to >>>> drive a led. >>>> >>>> A path could be added that literally inverts or not the original AM >> signal >>>> so that spectracom 8170s and Truetime DC60s would work and recover time >>>> correctly. That is a piece O cake. >>>> >>>> So I will get this into a schematic to share over the next day or two. >>>> By the way on performance the system handles sun rise and sets and keeps >>>> ticking. Using a fluke 207 driven by a Rb ref to watch for failures. >> This >>>> is recorded on a 4 channel chart recorder program on a laptop. I have >> used >>>> the system to drive 2 X HP VLF 117s and they track as w >>>> Lots of areas that might be improved AGC control and time constants. >> Adding >>>> a opamp to the 0 degree phase VCO control voltage and also adjusting >> Time >>>> constants. Though the 12 Mhz oscillator is really standard parts just >> could >>>> not find something reasonable and off the shelf. Digikey or Mouser >> stuff. >>>> something with 4 pins and a few $. By the way the control voltage is >>>> .5V/.1Hz. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Paul >>>> WB8TSL >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

		Attila Kinali

On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 21:01:27 -0400 paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > OK it has been a while and I have promised to share results. In the next > few days I will put whats on paper into a schematic and share. I won't > dwell on all of the stuff from October to now. But several front end rcvrs, > and several analog Costas loops were built using MC1496s and another using > AD633 multipliers. Various other glue. > Nothing to rave about. It may sound strange, but actually the stuff you tried and didnt work would be more interesting to me.. especially if you include the reason why it didnt work. Attila Kinali -- The people on 4chan are like brilliant psychologists who also happen to be insane and gross. -- unknown

On 3/29/13 9:01 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > Too much tuning range is easy enough to fix. Use a pot to set it on frequency and then hook it to the rest of the "stuff" with a fixed resistor. The gotcha would be if the poor thing drifts so much that it *needs* the wide range to stay in lock. > > My guess is that you could buy a hundred VCXO's at auction for less than the cost of trying a dozen samples. > wide tuning range VCOs have lower Q resonators, so the "outside the loop BW" noise will tend to be worse. The other problem I have found is that wide tuning range VCOs tend to drift more (that is, with a constant input voltage, their frequency changes more as they warm up or otherwise change temperature). It's a matter of sitting with the online order site open in one window, and the Vectron or whoever website open to their catalog in another and going back and forth comparing part #s..

Hi I think it's pretty safe to say that the Vectron part mentioned is a VCXO with a crystal as the resonator. Indeed a ceramic resonator or an L/C resonator part would have a bit more drift and lower Q than a crystal based part. I would not try something like this with anything other than a crystal based part. At least as far as the commonly available stuff goes. I'm sure you could make it work with a hydrogen maser as the frequency source and a bit of DDS magic... Bob On Mar 30, 2013, at 10:23 AM, Jim Lux <jimlux@earthlink.net> wrote: > On 3/29/13 9:01 AM, Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> Too much tuning range is easy enough to fix. Use a pot to set it on frequency and then hook it to the rest of the "stuff" with a fixed resistor. The gotcha would be if the poor thing drifts so much that it *needs* the wide range to stay in lock. >> >> My guess is that you could buy a hundred VCXO's at auction for less than the cost of trying a dozen samples. >> > > wide tuning range VCOs have lower Q resonators, so the "outside the loop BW" noise will tend to be worse. > > The other problem I have found is that wide tuning range VCOs tend to drift more (that is, with a constant input voltage, their frequency changes more as they warm up or otherwise change temperature). > > It's a matter of sitting with the online order site open in one window, and the Vectron or whoever website open to their catalog in another and going back and forth comparing part #s.. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.