Patrick said, "In some cases some things go without saying. For example, if there's a report of a Baird's or Buff-breasted Sandpiper, you an assume it is an juvie unless otherwise stated." With all respect, I think the original point was that, in fact, for newer birders, not everything goes without saying. Only a birder with some experience might know about the plumage patterns of birds such as the shorebirds you mentioned, especially since so many birds with which a newer birder is familiar (e.g., blue jay, chickadee, etc.) do not go through a "juvenile" plumage but really look like the adults (as far as I know - I'm not an expert!) In fact, as we've discussed previously (in regards to woodpeckers), the younger birds often have fresher unworn plumages and are in fact brighter than the adults. Sarah Sarah Hager Johnston, BMus, MLS 860-676-2228 -----Original Message----- From: COMINS, Patrick [mailto:PCOMINS@audubon.org] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:13 AM To: ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org Subject: [CT Birds] Black Vultures and RE: Even More Precise Bird Reporting? from Patrick and Maxson Comins: 9/10 - Meriden Stop and Shop (West end)-- 4 BLACK VULTURES. They were flying low over the top of the building like they were coming up from a roost. There were also ~10 Turkey Vultures. Re the more precise reporting. I think people do report age/sex where it is applicable and to the best of their ability. In some cases some things go without saying. For example, if there's a report of a Baird's or Buff-breasted Sandpiper, you an assume it is an juvie unless otherwise stated. Patrick Comins, Meriden. _______________________________________________ This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org

Sorry if I sounded condescending, which wasn't my intent, but rather to point out that in the cases of those two species, nearly all reports here are of juvies. That is probably the case for some of the other uncommon to rare shorebirds too, but those are the ones that come to mind as examples. In the case of Eurasian vagrants, e.g. stints, often they are represented by adults, which may be a bit of case of bias because it would be the adults with some remaining alternate plumage that stand out from the crowd. In such cases people would almost always report the age and plumage of an individual though because it would be essential for rare records purposes. I agree that for some middle of the road rarities like Blue Grosbeak, it would be good to know what age/sex/plumage we are looking for. For the really rare stuff, such info is often essential. Patrick Comins ________________________________________ From: ctbirds-bounces@lists.ctbirding.org [ctbirds-bounces@lists.ctbirding.org] On Behalf Of Peregrine Information Consultants [info@peregrineinfo.com] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:48 PM To: ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org Subject: Re: [CT Birds] Even More Precise Bird Reporting? Patrick said, "In some cases some things go without saying. For example, if there's a report of a Baird's or Buff-breasted Sandpiper, you an assume it is an juvie unless otherwise stated." With all respect, I think the original point was that, in fact, for newer birders, not everything goes without saying. Only a birder with some experience might know about the plumage patterns of birds such as the shorebirds you mentioned, especially since so many birds with which a newer birder is familiar (e.g., blue jay, chickadee, etc.) do not go through a "juvenile" plumage but really look like the adults (as far as I know - I'm not an expert!) In fact, as we've discussed previously (in regards to woodpeckers), the younger birds often have fresher unworn plumages and are in fact brighter than the adults. Sarah Sarah Hager Johnston, BMus, MLS 860-676-2228 -----Original Message----- From: COMINS, Patrick [mailto:PCOMINS@audubon.org] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:13 AM To: ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org Subject: [CT Birds] Black Vultures and RE: Even More Precise Bird Reporting? from Patrick and Maxson Comins: 9/10 - Meriden Stop and Shop (West end)-- 4 BLACK VULTURES. They were flying low over the top of the building like they were coming up from a roost. There were also ~10 Turkey Vultures. Re the more precise reporting. I think people do report age/sex where it is applicable and to the best of their ability. In some cases some things go without saying. For example, if there's a report of a Baird's or Buff-breasted Sandpiper, you an assume it is an juvie unless otherwise stated. Patrick Comins, Meriden. _______________________________________________ This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org _______________________________________________ This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org

I am going to suggest something that is controversial ( big surprise, no?) . I am going to suggest that unless you have sorted out the bird to age and sex, the bird is not really identified (Ok, both may not be discernable but one of the two usually is). Sure, we all work on a farly low-level threshhold of identification. Maybe, though, if we really tried to know all we could about the bird in question...maybe if we all looked hard enough or studied the literature enough to know what age / sex we were looking at we would find more "unusual" things, even in our own back yard. Next time you see a flock of American Goldfinches at your feeder, try sorting out males from females and immature or molted males from adult and immature females. This is a learning experience well worth the effort. I ask a question that you can answer for yourselves...and try not to use a field guide....What color undertail coverts does an American Goldfinch have? The answer might lead to Connecticut's first Lesser Goldfinch. This may sound like hard work but it is really a lot of fun. Don't stop your questioning when you think you know what you are looking at. Keep on questioning untill you know all you can about the feathered marvel in front of you. Oh yeah, and document document document documnet document the heck out of it. This makes birding more fun and is really valuable info for posterity. Honstly, how many of us saw the adult Buff-breasted Sandpiper at Rocky Hill? This is a fairly rare bird in CT...not Buff-breasted Sandpiper but ADULT Buff-breasted Sandpiper. Ok...I am done preaching. Mark Mark S.Szantyr 80 Bicknell Road Apt. 9 Ashford, CT 06278 USA Birddog55@Charter.net 860-487-9766 ----- Original Message ----- From: "COMINS, Patrick" <PCOMINS@audubon.org> To: <info@peregrineinfo.com>; <ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [CT Birds] Even More Precise Bird Reporting? > Sorry if I sounded condescending, which wasn't my intent, but rather to > point out that in the cases of those two species, nearly all reports here > are of juvies. That is probably the case for some of the other uncommon > to rare shorebirds too, but those are the ones that come to mind as > examples. In the case of Eurasian vagrants, e.g. stints, often they are > represented by adults, which may be a bit of case of bias because it would > be the adults with some remaining alternate plumage that stand out from > the crowd. In such cases people would almost always report the age and > plumage of an individual though because it would be essential for rare > records purposes. > > I agree that for some middle of the road rarities like Blue Grosbeak, it > would be good to know what age/sex/plumage we are looking for. For the > really rare stuff, such info is often essential. > > Patrick Comins > > > ________________________________________ > From: ctbirds-bounces@lists.ctbirding.org > [ctbirds-bounces@lists.ctbirding.org] On Behalf Of Peregrine Information > Consultants [info@peregrineinfo.com] > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:48 PM > To: ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org > Subject: Re: [CT Birds] Even More Precise Bird Reporting? > > Patrick said, "In some cases some things go without saying. For example, > if there's a report of a Baird's or Buff-breasted Sandpiper, you an assume > it is an juvie unless otherwise stated." > > With all respect, I think the original point was that, in fact, for newer > birders, not everything goes without saying. Only a birder with some > experience might know about the plumage patterns of birds such as the > shorebirds you mentioned, especially since so many birds with which a > newer birder is familiar (e.g., blue jay, chickadee, etc.) do not go > through a "juvenile" plumage but really look like the adults (as far as I > know - I'm not an expert!) In fact, as we've discussed previously (in > regards to woodpeckers), the younger birds often have fresher unworn > plumages and are in fact brighter than the adults. > > Sarah > > Sarah Hager Johnston, BMus, MLS > 860-676-2228 > > -----Original Message----- > From: COMINS, Patrick [mailto:PCOMINS@audubon.org] > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:13 AM > To: ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org > Subject: [CT Birds] Black Vultures and RE: Even More Precise Bird > Reporting? > > from Patrick and Maxson Comins: > 9/10 - Meriden Stop and Shop (West end)-- 4 BLACK VULTURES. They were > flying low over the top of the building like they were coming up from a > roost. There were also ~10 Turkey Vultures. > > Re the more precise reporting. I think people do report age/sex where it > is applicable and to the best of their ability. In some cases some things > go without saying. For example, if there's a report of a Baird's or > Buff-breasted Sandpiper, you an assume it is an juvie unless otherwise > stated. > > Patrick Comins, Meriden. > > _______________________________________________ > This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) > for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. > For subscription information visit > http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) > for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. > For subscription information visit > http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org > > _______________________________________________ > This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) > for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. > For subscription information visit > http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org >