Empathy List Archives

JD

Jim Donnelly

Mon, Mar 17, 2003 5:10 PM

Have a wonderful Trace U2232 Inverter (32Volt). Morning after a
thunderstorm, I turned it on and it went POOF. Appears to have lost a FET
(transistor).

Trace can/will not support me as it is discontinued model. Solatron offered
help, but minimum charge for bench inspection was too much for me.

Any help will be appreciated. It is a lovely unit and I have a big
investment in my 32volt base system.

Jim Donnelly
Troller Fan Isle

Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Have a wonderful Trace U2232 Inverter (32Volt). Morning after a thunderstorm, I turned it on and it went POOF. Appears to have lost a FET (transistor). Trace can/will not support me as it is discontinued model. Solatron offered help, but minimum charge for bench inspection was too much for me. Any help will be appreciated. It is a lovely unit and I have a big investment in my 32volt base system. Jim Donnelly Troller Fan Isle _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

SD

Steven Dubnoff

Mon, Mar 17, 2003 6:29 PM

Trace can/will not support me as it is discontinued model. Solatron
offered help, but minimum charge for bench inspection was too much for me.

How do you spell monopoly? I used to be able to walk in and get
component-level service for my Cruising Equipment stuff. They were
swallowed by Heart, which was, in turn, swallowed by Xantrex. This is not
good for consumers.

Best,

Steve

Steve Dubnoff
Nauticat 40 M/S, Pyxis, in Washington
sdubnoff@circlesys.com

> >Trace can/will not support me as it is discontinued model. Solatron >offered help, but minimum charge for bench inspection was too much for me. How do you spell monopoly? I used to be able to walk in and get component-level service for my Cruising Equipment stuff. They were swallowed by Heart, which was, in turn, swallowed by Xantrex. This is not good for consumers. Best, Steve Steve Dubnoff Nauticat 40 M/S, Pyxis, in Washington sdubnoff@circlesys.com

AJ

Arild Jensen

Tue, Mar 18, 2003 1:25 AM

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Dubnoff
How do you spell monopoly? I used to be able to walk in and get
component-level service for my Cruising Equipment stuff. They were
swallowed by Heart, which was, in turn, swallowed by Xantrex. This is not
good for consumers.
Steve

REPLY

Steve, it isn't just a monopoly its called global economy.
Xantrex is simply copying what they see other companies doing.
You design a product, then get it built by cheap labor in a third world
country for peanuts, pay a few pesos to have it shipped by container to
some other part of the world where you can sell it for megabucks and
retire with a fat profit.
Repair consist of giving the customer another unit.
After all that is cheaper than having to pay a tech $15 - $20 /hour who
actually knows what he is doing.
And of course the cheapest production assembly methods quite often mean it
is also the most expensive to replace parts in.
Rivets are cheaper than bolts, and so is spot welding.
Glue is faster than screws, but not reversible.
Surface mount chips and VLSI technology reduces parts count but means the
whole board only cost $5 - $10v and is now a throw away item.

As long as consumers insist on selecting consumer goods primarily on the
basis of cheapest that is just barely good enough, we will never see a
change.
The mentality of planned obsolescence has helped create this state of
affairs. We no longer expect or even want something to last 40 years.
Most people expect to replace something in five years or less.

We the consumers can only expect to change the state of affairs if we are
willing to change our own mindset and social values.

Cheers

Arild

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002

-----Original Message----- From: Steven Dubnoff How do you spell monopoly? I used to be able to walk in and get component-level service for my Cruising Equipment stuff. They were swallowed by Heart, which was, in turn, swallowed by Xantrex. This is not good for consumers. Steve >REPLY Steve, it isn't just a monopoly its called global economy. Xantrex is simply copying what they see other companies doing. You design a product, then get it built by cheap labor in a third world country for peanuts, pay a few pesos to have it shipped by container to some other part of the world where you can sell it for megabucks and retire with a fat profit. Repair consist of giving the customer another unit. After all that is cheaper than having to pay a tech $15 - $20 /hour who actually knows what he is doing. And of course the cheapest production assembly methods quite often mean it is also the most expensive to replace parts in. Rivets are cheaper than bolts, and so is spot welding. Glue is faster than screws, but not reversible. Surface mount chips and VLSI technology reduces parts count but means the whole board only cost $5 - $10v and is now a throw away item. As long as consumers insist on selecting consumer goods primarily on the basis of cheapest that is just barely good enough, we will never see a change. The mentality of planned obsolescence has helped create this state of affairs. We no longer expect or even want something to last 40 years. Most people expect to replace something in five years or less. We the consumers can only expect to change the state of affairs if we are willing to change our own mindset and social values. Cheers Arild --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002

AJ

Arild Jensen

Tue, Mar 18, 2003 1:25 AM

Steven Dubnoff wrote
How do you spell monopoly? I used to be able to walk in and get
component-level service for my Cruising Equipment stuff. They were
swallowed by Heart, which was, in turn, swallowed by Xantrex. This is not
good for consumers.

REPLY
In another post I pointed out this was almost inevitable given a global
economy.
It involves issues such as repairability versus planned obsolescence.
This is at the crux of the issues facing our society and perhaps in
particular trawler owners.
Judging from the list postings it certainly appear that more trawler owners
are fixing up older models than there are new boats being bought.

In a sense our Trawler world list reflect the larger world out there.
We have a mix of leading edge technocrats who always want to push the
envelope; and ultra conservatives at the other end of the spectrum who are
suspicious of that new fangled invention the transistor and all things
electronic.

Many trawler owners have asked for assistance in locating suitable
replacement parts for windows, doors and interior furniture and trim.
The scarcity of repair parts is indicative of how we live in a consumer
society that regards all things as disposable rather than lasting for the
long term.

Popular Mechanics ran an interesting special section this month.
It focused on buying a well used 1986 Chevy truck in terrible condition
and refurbishing it to like new condition.
The two part series describes the steps involved in a complete overhaul.
The end result will be a like new vehicle, but at considerably lower cost.
I find this encouraging. It indicates a shift in public opinion towards a
conserver society that recycles, rebuilds. and renews.

Can any of the people who are doing a major refit document their costs and
construction involvement in sufficient detail to make an article of it?

When the USCG finally retired some of the earliest fiberglass surf boats
they dismantled them and cut apart the hull to ascertain exactly how much
wear these hulls had suffered. It was concluded that the boats could have
been left in service for many more years.
Likewise, many older production boats have been snapped up at bargain prices
and fully upgraded and refurbished.

I for one would like to encourage this list to promote the idea of
conserving and renewing the various older boats you can find in every
harbour.
I realize the boat manufactures may not like this notion but you can expect
the after market and equipment suppliers to endorse this concept.

Wooden boat magazine devotes considerable space to articles dealing with
restoration, and repair of older wooden boats.
I'm sure there is as much a demand for such a format but related to the
broader range of all hull materials used for trawler type boats.
And here I would like to accept the broader definition of trawler to mean
any displacement and semi displacement hull, slower cruising boat ands
even semi-planing hulls. I would like to think the broad description
should be inclusive rather than exclusive.

Trawlering as applied to recreational boats is as much a philosophical
perspective on life and the world as it is a technical definition of a
particular boat hull and commercial workboat application.

Cheers

Arild

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002

Steven Dubnoff wrote How do you spell monopoly? I used to be able to walk in and get component-level service for my Cruising Equipment stuff. They were swallowed by Heart, which was, in turn, swallowed by Xantrex. This is not good for consumers. REPLY In another post I pointed out this was almost inevitable given a global economy. It involves issues such as repairability versus planned obsolescence. This is at the crux of the issues facing our society and perhaps in particular trawler owners. Judging from the list postings it certainly appear that more trawler owners are fixing up older models than there are new boats being bought. In a sense our Trawler world list reflect the larger world out there. We have a mix of leading edge technocrats who always want to push the envelope; and ultra conservatives at the other end of the spectrum who are suspicious of that new fangled invention the transistor and all things electronic. Many trawler owners have asked for assistance in locating suitable replacement parts for windows, doors and interior furniture and trim. The scarcity of repair parts is indicative of how we live in a consumer society that regards all things as disposable rather than lasting for the long term. Popular Mechanics ran an interesting special section this month. It focused on buying a well used 1986 Chevy truck in terrible condition and refurbishing it to like new condition. The two part series describes the steps involved in a complete overhaul. The end result will be a like new vehicle, but at considerably lower cost. I find this encouraging. It indicates a shift in public opinion towards a conserver society that recycles, rebuilds. and renews. Can any of the people who are doing a major refit document their costs and construction involvement in sufficient detail to make an article of it? When the USCG finally retired some of the earliest fiberglass surf boats they dismantled them and cut apart the hull to ascertain exactly how much wear these hulls had suffered. It was concluded that the boats could have been left in service for many more years. Likewise, many older production boats have been snapped up at bargain prices and fully upgraded and refurbished. I for one would like to encourage this list to promote the idea of conserving and renewing the various older boats you can find in every harbour. I realize the boat manufactures may not like this notion but you can expect the after market and equipment suppliers to endorse this concept. Wooden boat magazine devotes considerable space to articles dealing with restoration, and repair of older wooden boats. I'm sure there is as much a demand for such a format but related to the broader range of all hull materials used for trawler type boats. And here I would like to accept the broader definition of trawler to mean any displacement and semi displacement hull, slower cruising boat ands even semi-planing hulls. I would like to think the broad description should be inclusive rather than exclusive. Trawlering as applied to recreational boats is as much a philosophical perspective on life and the world as it is a technical definition of a particular boat hull and commercial workboat application. Cheers Arild --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002

MR

Mark Richter

Sun, Mar 23, 2003 7:17 PM

<<Can any of the people who are doing a major refit document
their costs andcon truction involvement in sufficient detail to
make an article of it?>>

Sure. Winnie the Pooh cost $30,500 to buy (wrecked), and I spent
about $52,000 on parts, supplies, materials, and services
(trucking, launching) to rebuild HIM. Altogether, Susanne and I
spent just about 9000 manhours in the restoration/conversion. I
have lots of detailed records and receipts, but didn't know if
tere's enough interest to sustain a magazine article, since so
few people ever take on such a large project.

Mark Richter, Stuart, FL
enroute Melbourne-Vero Beach

<<Can any of the people who are doing a major refit document their costs andcon truction involvement in sufficient detail to make an article of it?>> Sure. Winnie the Pooh cost $30,500 to buy (wrecked), and I spent about $52,000 on parts, supplies, materials, and services (trucking, launching) to rebuild HIM. Altogether, Susanne and I spent just about 9000 manhours in the restoration/conversion. I have lots of detailed records and receipts, but didn't know if tere's enough interest to sustain a magazine article, since so few people ever take on such a large project. Mark Richter, Stuart, FL enroute Melbourne-Vero Beach

trawlers@lists.trawlering.com

TWL: Trace Inverter Support

Arild