The L. Francis Herreshoff Marco Polo was and still is the epitome of the efficient and manageable long distance cruising boat. He had it all figured out a century ago. BTW it had a 4000 mile range under power. David Schramm M/V Jenny Current Location Journey Log -----Original Message----- From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com [mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:00 AM To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com Subject: Passagemaking-Under-Power Digest, Vol 48, Issue 8 Send Passagemaking-Under-Power mailing list submissions to passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com You can reach the person managing the list at passagemaking-under-power-owner@lists.samurai.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Passagemaking-Under-Power digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: PPM, Convergence, narrow boats, etc. (Chris Byer) 2. Re: PUP-PPM (Mark) 3. PUP-PPM (bob england) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: 7 Nov 2008 05:46:27 -0000 From: "Chris Byer" <qk50u3c02@sneakemail.com> Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM, Convergence, narrow boats, etc. To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com Message-ID: <27354-22997@sneakemail.com> Mark, don't forget to include the Macgregor 65 in your list of long, narrow sailboats. "Idlewild" was built out of aluminum, and not steel as mentioned in Hannu Venermo's post. You can relive her around the world voyage through Google Earth at: http://tinyurl.com/ksnhg Chris Byer Cathedral City ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:46:54 -0800 (PST) From: Mark <mark424x@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [PUP] PUP-PPM To: Passagemaking Under Power List <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Message-ID: <224060.68680.qm@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- On Thu, 11/6/08, bob england <bob_england@hotmail.com> wrote: > I think a monohull, diesel only powered, full displacement > vessell is what we > should discuss. Now, lett'er rip, I can take it !!! Agree Bob. Several random thoughts and questions. - Hannu makes some interesting comments about costs of custom boats. Does anyone have any actual experience getting bids on custom boats and can you compare the costs to a comparable production boat? I realize comparable may be tough. I like the idea of using household items - specifically furniture. Maybe it's just being 6'4", but I've never found built-ins to be comfortable. This fellow remodeled the builtins in his salon and I think makes valid points about the design of settees (warning, it's a sailing cat - but the principle applies to any boat) http://www.svroam.com/svroam3_006.htm Personally, I'd leave the space open and just buy a high quality sofa. - My biggest question is about how much of the equipment we need vs are "being sold". The reason that I put it that way is that most PUP vessels I see these days are quite expensive and complicated machines. For comparison I think of the folks I know that have spent significant time passagemaking under sail - typically 10-20 year old solidly designed sailboats that can be purchased for $150-250K, the lower end requiring a bit more fit out before departure. The second data point I use is a fellow that I met in Papeete in '91 after my first passage from California. He had sailed from Acapulco on a 30' wooden ketch, no motor, no refrigeration, all by himself. A local 16 year old is circumnavigating solo on a refitted Islander 36 (not a high end boat by any imagination). Also consider the simplicity of Idlewild (http://idlewildexpedition.ca/pictures/031_boat.htm). Yes, those are some extreme examples, and I do want the comforts of home in my PPM - however I can't help but think if you did a true engineering analysis of safety, reliability, and livability issues that you'd find much of the cost going into today's passagemakers is misplaced. - not withstanding the above points, the reality is that most of us don't want the hassle of a custom build, and we want something that has market value (read recognized brand) - thus we'll settle for a production vessel and focus on the cruising rather than being arm chair yacht designers. Of course if I can sell my software company I'll start a budget passagemaker business and not care about turning a profit ;-) Mark Marina del Rey, CA ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:44:42 -0600 From: "bob england" <bob_england@hotmail.com> Subject: [PUP] PUP-PPM To: <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Message-ID: <BLU148-DAV7AB49B0FC675A6FE9E18094190@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I like the line of thought about a production hull. There are a lot of very good hulls out there that could be made into great passagemakers. The economy is ripe right now with WAY cheap older boats (ask any broker) that could be gutted to the bare hull and made into the PPM. The hull is only about a third of the overall cost but if systems were kept simple (kinda like IdleWild) and structure kept at the forfront, we could build a GREAT world girdling boat. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List End of Passagemaking-Under-Power Digest, Vol 48, Issue 8 ********************************************************