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Re: TWL: Public or private archives, stricter registration, paid admission, e...

M
M2MC@aol.com
Tue, Jan 20, 2004 4:01 PM

Thanks very much for your input, Mike.

One question: How would you suggest we fund List operations? The
current cost is about $1,500 and growing as subscriber numbers
increase.<

George, This is the first time, to my knowledge, I've been made aware of the
operating cost of the list.  It wasn't mentioned in your original email as an
issue.  Is that $1500 per year?  How many subscribers are there currently?
You and the other people who give both their time and resources to make this
list available to us provide a wonderful service.  You certainly should not be
expected to bear the cost associated providing this service without at least
reimbursement of your costs.  I suspect that, if asked, the majority of
existing subscribers would be glad to contribute to offset the cost of operations.
If this is an issue for you, and I can certainly see how it would be, then the
list needs to address it.
As you said in your original post about the archives, this has been a public
forum and "shouldn't be hidden from access on the web".  As such it invites
open discussion, dissenting opinions, widely differing points of view, as well
as a wide range technical competence and advice.  Its inspiring, humorous,
infuriating, opinionated, educational, robust, and fun.  These characteristics are
what I enjoy about the list, and its the individuals that participate in the
forum, not the forum itself, that make "the list" successful.  I hate to see
us lose anyone from the list that regularly contributes to its value.  Having
said that, you operate the list and you must do as you feel is appropriate.
If cost is the issue, I'm not much on paying a subscription fee to share a
forum but I'm certainly willing to contribute, as long as we're allowed to share
our ideas, humor, and opinions in an open forum.
Mike Coble

>Thanks very much for your input, Mike. One question: How would you suggest we fund List operations? The current cost is about $1,500 and growing as subscriber numbers increase.< George, This is the first time, to my knowledge, I've been made aware of the operating cost of the list. It wasn't mentioned in your original email as an issue. Is that $1500 per year? How many subscribers are there currently? You and the other people who give both their time and resources to make this list available to us provide a wonderful service. You certainly should not be expected to bear the cost associated providing this service without at least reimbursement of your costs. I suspect that, if asked, the majority of existing subscribers would be glad to contribute to offset the cost of operations. If this is an issue for you, and I can certainly see how it would be, then the list needs to address it. As you said in your original post about the archives, this has been a public forum and "shouldn't be hidden from access on the web". As such it invites open discussion, dissenting opinions, widely differing points of view, as well as a wide range technical competence and advice. Its inspiring, humorous, infuriating, opinionated, educational, robust, and fun. These characteristics are what I enjoy about the list, and its the individuals that participate in the forum, not the forum itself, that make "the list" successful. I hate to see us lose anyone from the list that regularly contributes to its value. Having said that, you operate the list and you must do as you feel is appropriate. If cost is the issue, I'm not much on paying a subscription fee to share a forum but I'm certainly willing to contribute, as long as we're allowed to share our ideas, humor, and opinions in an open forum. Mike Coble
KP
Keith Pleas
Tue, Jan 20, 2004 4:44 PM

George, This is the first time, to my knowledge, I've been made aware of

the operating cost of the list.  It wasn't mentioned in your original email
as an issue.  Is that $1500 per year?  How many subscribers are there
currently?

I thought West Marine was a (the?) sponsor of the list. Aren't they picking
up the direct costs? I think I also saw something saying there were about
1200 listmembers (and presumably others reading via the web), so we're not
talking much money here in any case.

If funding is an issue, I suggest publishing a PayPal donations address. I'd
be willing to kick in $5 or $10 and I imagine others would as well.

Keith

>>George, This is the first time, to my knowledge, I've been made aware of the operating cost of the list. It wasn't mentioned in your original email as an issue. Is that $1500 per year? How many subscribers are there currently? I thought West Marine was a (the?) sponsor of the list. Aren't they picking up the direct costs? I think I also saw something saying there were about 1200 listmembers (and presumably others reading via the web), so we're not talking much money here in any case. If funding is an issue, I suggest publishing a PayPal donations address. I'd be willing to kick in $5 or $10 and I imagine others would as well. Keith
A&
Andrew & Linda Fraser
Tue, Jan 20, 2004 5:13 PM

Keith,
Great idea I would have no problem with that type of setup.
I have been on the list from the get go and would not mind paying to paypal
for all the good I have got out of this list.
I think if you were to set up a pay site it would not work out to well,
but if you were to sort of set it up as a share ware type of a thing it
would work fine. I have used lots of share ware type of things on the web if
I get good use out of it I send the person some money if they have a paypal
or other type of account setup. Not every one will pay but I think it will
all work out in the end with no one having to support the list them on there
own. Just my two cents (waiting to send more!!)

Andrew & Linda Fraser
M/V KAISOOBA  N46
N6ZPK    N6ZPL

    Keith said

If funding is an issue, I suggest publishing a PayPal donations address.

I'd

be willing to kick in $5 or $10 and I imagine others would as well.

Keith, Great idea I would have no problem with that type of setup. I have been on the list from the get go and would not mind paying to paypal for all the good I have got out of this list. I think if you were to set up a pay site it would not work out to well, but if you were to sort of set it up as a share ware type of a thing it would work fine. I have used lots of share ware type of things on the web if I get good use out of it I send the person some money if they have a paypal or other type of account setup. Not every one will pay but I think it will all work out in the end with no one having to support the list them on there own. Just my two cents (waiting to send more!!) Andrew & Linda Fraser M/V KAISOOBA N46 N6ZPK N6ZPL Keith said > If funding is an issue, I suggest publishing a PayPal donations address. I'd > be willing to kick in $5 or $10 and I imagine others would as well.
PJ
Philip J. Rosch
Tue, Jan 20, 2004 8:24 PM

On second thought, I like Keith's idea of a "PayPal" donation.  I happily
pay Weather Underground $5/year to keep their advertising to themselves and
I'd happily pay my share of the overhead even though I'm very likely on the
moderated "watch list".

                                      Regards....

Phil Rosch
Old Harbor Consulting
M/V Curmudgeon MT-44TC
Currently moored in Fort Myers Beach, Estero Island, FL

On second thought, I like Keith's idea of a "PayPal" donation. I happily pay Weather Underground $5/year to keep their advertising to themselves and I'd happily pay my share of the overhead even though I'm very likely on the moderated "watch list". Regards.... Phil Rosch Old Harbor Consulting M/V Curmudgeon MT-44TC Currently moored in Fort Myers Beach, Estero Island, FL
BL
Bob Lowe
Tue, Jan 20, 2004 8:51 PM

It has always been my understanding that Trawler World was a commercial
website and that part of what draws commercial support and advertising is
the various Lists and members that participate and frequent Trawler World
because of their membership.
If this is true, then the membership has a value, unless that value has
diminished since it has been sold.  I don't think I would support a TWL that
I have to pay to join.  I don't think Trawler World would have had as much
commercial value, if any, without the membership and their participation
that built the lists that TWL sponsored.  That's the way it looks from here,
just MHO.
Bob Lowe

It has always been my understanding that Trawler World was a commercial website and that part of what draws commercial support and advertising is the various Lists and members that participate and frequent Trawler World because of their membership. If this is true, then the membership has a value, unless that value has diminished since it has been sold. I don't think I would support a TWL that I have to pay to join. I don't think Trawler World would have had as much commercial value, if any, without the membership and their participation that built the lists that TWL sponsored. That's the way it looks from here, just MHO. Bob Lowe