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Re: T&T: Engine Coolant Safety thru Hot water heater

JH
Jim Healy
Fri, Jan 8, 2010 2:09 PM

A little off the point of contaminated potable water, but hopefully of
interest.  We run with our house water pump turned off all the time, every
time.  It's part of our pre-departure checklist.  The reason is that the hot
water tank, an Atwood, has a safety pressure relief (pop-off) valve on it that
is pre-set at 185 degrees.  When the engine is running, the engine coolant is
in that temp range.  Several years ago, the pop-off opened while we were under
way, but it did not completely reset/close.  That night, when we shut down,
the fresh water pump was running, the water tanks were empty, and 140 gallons
of fresh water had been pumped overboard by the bilge pump.  You can't hear
the fresh water pump run when the engine and/or genset are running; it's very
quiet.  So, I replaced the relief valve, but "just in case," we now turn the
pump off while under way.

Jim

Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary
Currently north for the Holidays
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436

A little off the point of contaminated potable water, but hopefully of interest. We run with our house water pump turned off all the time, every time. It's part of our pre-departure checklist. The reason is that the hot water tank, an Atwood, has a safety pressure relief (pop-off) valve on it that is pre-set at 185 degrees. When the engine is running, the engine coolant is in that temp range. Several years ago, the pop-off opened while we were under way, but it did not completely reset/close. That night, when we shut down, the fresh water pump was running, the water tanks were empty, and 140 gallons of fresh water had been pumped overboard by the bilge pump. You can't hear the fresh water pump run when the engine and/or genset are running; it's very quiet. So, I replaced the relief valve, but "just in case," we now turn the pump off while under way. Jim Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary Currently north for the Holidays Monk 36 Hull #132 MMSI #367042570 AGLCA #3767 MTOA #3436
SS
Steve Sipe
Fri, Jan 8, 2010 4:21 PM

On 1/8/2010 9:09 AM, Jim Healy wrote:

A little off the point of contaminated potable water, but hopefully of
interest.  We run with our house water pump turned off all the time, every
time.  It's part of our pre-departure checklist.  The reason is that the hot
water tank, an Atwood, has a safety pressure relief (pop-off) valve on it that
is pre-set at 185 degrees.  When the engine is running, the engine coolant is
in that temp range.  Several years ago, the pop-off opened while we were under

Jim,

A standard T&P on a water heater is set at 210F and 150 psi. There are
175psi T&P valves available, don't use them on ANY water heater, the
standard tank is rated 150 psi. The purpose of the valve is to keep the
pressure vessel, the water heater - from becoming a bomb if the contents
exceed flash point. The likelihood of creating that condition with just
engine coolant heating is slim, but conceivable in theory, however
entirely possible with a runaway electric heating element. When the
valve opens, the pressure drops, plus cooler water flows into the tank,
helping to mitigate the condition that caused it to open in the 1st place.

If your T&P opened, replace it. They're not expensive, and if it opened
and did not close completely, it's compromised, and should no longer be
considered functional safety device. Shutting off the pump may be
effective, but IMO is bypassing the real solution to the problem.

Just reiterate, the T&P valve differentiates between pressure vessel &
bomb. Water at pressure and temperatures that approach the flash
(boiling) point is not something to be trifled with. Any T&P valve that
exhibits any questionable condition should be REPLACED.

steve sipe
Solo 4303 "Maerin"
tonight - 7 Seas Marina Port Orange

On 1/8/2010 9:09 AM, Jim Healy wrote: > A little off the point of contaminated potable water, but hopefully of > interest. We run with our house water pump turned off all the time, every > time. It's part of our pre-departure checklist. The reason is that the hot > water tank, an Atwood, has a safety pressure relief (pop-off) valve on it that > is pre-set at 185 degrees. When the engine is running, the engine coolant is > in that temp range. Several years ago, the pop-off opened while we were under > Jim, A standard T&P on a water heater is set at 210F and 150 psi. There are 175psi T&P valves available, don't use them on ANY water heater, the standard tank is rated 150 psi. The purpose of the valve is to keep the pressure vessel, the water heater - from becoming a bomb if the contents exceed flash point. The likelihood of creating that condition with just engine coolant heating is slim, but conceivable in theory, however entirely possible with a runaway electric heating element. When the valve opens, the pressure drops, plus cooler water flows into the tank, helping to mitigate the condition that caused it to open in the 1st place. If your T&P opened, replace it. They're not expensive, and if it opened and did not close completely, it's compromised, and should no longer be considered functional safety device. Shutting off the pump may be effective, but IMO is bypassing the real solution to the problem. Just reiterate, the T&P valve differentiates between pressure vessel & bomb. Water at pressure and temperatures that approach the flash (boiling) point is not something to be trifled with. Any T&P valve that exhibits any questionable condition should be REPLACED. steve sipe Solo 4303 "Maerin" tonight - 7 Seas Marina Port Orange
SH
Scott H.E. Welch
Fri, Jan 8, 2010 7:43 PM

Steve Sipe scs_maerin@maerin.net writes:

Just reiterate, the T&P valve differentiates between pressure vessel &
bomb. Water at pressure and temperatures that approach the flash
(boiling) point is not something to be trifled with. Any T&P valve that
exhibits any questionable condition should be REPLACED.

What he says. And if you have not seen it yet, take a look at this segment
from Mythbusters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmJoyuUJj2Q

Scott Welch
Chief Evangelist, Open Text Social Media Group
www.opentext.com
905 762 6101

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn
out." - John Wooden

Steve Sipe <scs_maerin@maerin.net> writes: >Just reiterate, the T&P valve differentiates between pressure vessel & >bomb. Water at pressure and temperatures that approach the flash >(boiling) point is not something to be trifled with. Any T&P valve that >exhibits any questionable condition should be REPLACED. What he says. And if you have not seen it yet, take a look at this segment from Mythbusters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmJoyuUJj2Q Scott Welch Chief Evangelist, Open Text Social Media Group www.opentext.com 905 762 6101 "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out." - John Wooden