What is it about some of you Americans/Canadians getting too precious with yourself. This is a great subject and it's diversity is interesting. So George & Jim - bugger off and stop bringing commercialization and bruised ego's into our site. Jim good to see you are finally back on e-mail after 18 months, those customer spam filters play hell don't they? I am over half way through a 3200 nm coastal trip and when we can get e-mails one of my travelling companions and I sit down and read every post on this subject and discuss every thought offered. This subject is all about hopefully gaining wisdom, not a gospel leading the unwashed down a path to some commercial actuation, and why do some of you talk down to some contributors who are as dumb as you were once. I am hanging around for a few days waiting for a REAL trawler passagemaking friend to turn up after a pacific crossing (his second) to Oz. No armchair crap from this guy I guess. I need to know his view on stability whilst crossing bars into remote coral atolls. The little banter on dogs & shotties is also a bit of fun. George what does boffing mean, and is the neighbors dog a springer or a setter? Peter Sheppard N55#38 Great Sandy Passage Australia