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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions

R
rcbuck@atcelectronics.com
Fri, Jul 31, 2020 3:45 AM

Paul,

I wasn't talking about putting the d-psk-r software on the Blue Pill
board. The d-psk-r software will be on the Arduino board.

What I was thinking of doing was putting a single NEMA message on the
Blue Pill board. Then connect the UART transmit line to the Arduino in
place of the GPS UART line. That way I could send the same NEMA message
without having it change every minute. I would count 60 (or maybe 62)
pps coming from the GPS and I would know the Arduino was ready for the
next NEMA message.

Initially I will use the GPS UART transmit line to confirm the
Arduino/GPS combo works. Then play with sending my own NEMA GPRMC
message from the Blue Pill board.

It appears your software simply reads the TX buffer of the GPS until it
is empty once per minute and then proceeds to parse the NEMA time/date
information out one bit per second. However, the La Crosse Ultratomic
clock would not work with this data stream since you are stripping the
phase reversals out. Is that correct?

I want to extract the time information only. So I would feed the 60 kHz
sine wave into the preamp wire on the flipper board. Is that correct?

Ray,
AB7HE

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions
From: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
Date: Thu, July 30, 2020 5:14 pm
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Ray
Are you speaking to the d-psk-r software? Its quite a bit more involved
than what you mentioned. Its in the coding sequence. But could it be put
on
a bluepill absolutely. Its worked on all of the arduinos we have tried.
The
other thing is that by feeding a 60 KHz CW signal into the d-psk-r
modulator/flipper it turns the signal into a wwvb bpsk signal. No AM
modulation. But for bench testing its a noise free signal.
But I am interested in the approach you are trying to develop that I
guess
might be a SDR solution. Good luck looking forward to your success.
Regards
Paul.


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Paul, I wasn't talking about putting the d-psk-r software on the Blue Pill board. The d-psk-r software will be on the Arduino board. What I was thinking of doing was putting a single NEMA message on the Blue Pill board. Then connect the UART transmit line to the Arduino in place of the GPS UART line. That way I could send the same NEMA message without having it change every minute. I would count 60 (or maybe 62) pps coming from the GPS and I would know the Arduino was ready for the next NEMA message. Initially I will use the GPS UART transmit line to confirm the Arduino/GPS combo works. Then play with sending my own NEMA GPRMC message from the Blue Pill board. It appears your software simply reads the TX buffer of the GPS until it is empty once per minute and then proceeds to parse the NEMA time/date information out one bit per second. However, the La Crosse Ultratomic clock would not work with this data stream since you are stripping the phase reversals out. Is that correct? I want to extract the time information only. So I would feed the 60 kHz sine wave into the preamp wire on the flipper board. Is that correct? Ray, AB7HE -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions From: paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> Date: Thu, July 30, 2020 5:14 pm To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Ray Are you speaking to the d-psk-r software? Its quite a bit more involved than what you mentioned. Its in the coding sequence. But could it be put on a bluepill absolutely. Its worked on all of the arduinos we have tried. The other thing is that by feeding a 60 KHz CW signal into the d-psk-r modulator/flipper it turns the signal into a wwvb bpsk signal. No AM modulation. But for bench testing its a noise free signal. But I am interested in the approach you are trying to develop that I guess might be a SDR solution. Good luck looking forward to your success. Regards Paul. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
BK
Bob kb8tq
Fri, Jul 31, 2020 1:28 PM

Hi

Backing up a bit …..

The WWVB modulation is very predictable. Once you have lock,
you can guess just about every phase reversal you will see. If you
have an “approximate lock” ( = a time pre-load that is within a few
seconds) you can guess a lot of them. (There were a few aux data bits
in the stream last time I looked).

In the case of the pre-load, you still need to get your local stream
lined up with reality. In all cases, the ionosphere will move things
enough that some modest amount of servo would be needed.

The point of this being that you could pre-flip the data before it
went into a buffer. That way the buffer integration time constant
could be quite long.

The main penalty is a bit of work getting it all locked up in the first
place. If this is a precision timing receiver (as opposed to a wrist
watch) that may not be a problem.

Bob

On Jul 30, 2020, at 11:45 PM, rcbuck@atcelectronics.com wrote:

Paul,

I wasn't talking about putting the d-psk-r software on the Blue Pill
board. The d-psk-r software will be on the Arduino board.

What I was thinking of doing was putting a single NEMA message on the
Blue Pill board. Then connect the UART transmit line to the Arduino in
place of the GPS UART line. That way I could send the same NEMA message
without having it change every minute. I would count 60 (or maybe 62)
pps coming from the GPS and I would know the Arduino was ready for the
next NEMA message.

Initially I will use the GPS UART transmit line to confirm the
Arduino/GPS combo works. Then play with sending my own NEMA GPRMC
message from the Blue Pill board.

It appears your software simply reads the TX buffer of the GPS until it
is empty once per minute and then proceeds to parse the NEMA time/date
information out one bit per second. However, the La Crosse Ultratomic
clock would not work with this data stream since you are stripping the
phase reversals out. Is that correct?

I want to extract the time information only. So I would feed the 60 kHz
sine wave into the preamp wire on the flipper board. Is that correct?

Ray,
AB7HE

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions
From: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
Date: Thu, July 30, 2020 5:14 pm
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Ray
Are you speaking to the d-psk-r software? Its quite a bit more involved
than what you mentioned. Its in the coding sequence. But could it be put
on
a bluepill absolutely. Its worked on all of the arduinos we have tried.
The
other thing is that by feeding a 60 KHz CW signal into the d-psk-r
modulator/flipper it turns the signal into a wwvb bpsk signal. No AM
modulation. But for bench testing its a noise free signal.
But I am interested in the approach you are trying to develop that I
guess
might be a SDR solution. Good luck looking forward to your success.
Regards
Paul.


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Hi Backing up a bit ….. The WWVB modulation is *very* predictable. Once you have lock, you can guess just about every phase reversal you will see. If you have an “approximate lock” ( = a time pre-load that is within a few seconds) you can guess a lot of them. (There were a few aux data bits in the stream last time I looked). In the case of the pre-load, you still need to get your local stream lined up with reality. In all cases, the ionosphere will move things enough that some modest amount of servo would be needed. The point of this being that you *could* pre-flip the data before it went into a buffer. That way the buffer integration time constant could be quite long. The main penalty is a bit of work getting it all locked up in the first place. If this is a precision timing receiver (as opposed to a wrist watch) that may not be a problem. Bob > On Jul 30, 2020, at 11:45 PM, rcbuck@atcelectronics.com wrote: > > Paul, > > I wasn't talking about putting the d-psk-r software on the Blue Pill > board. The d-psk-r software will be on the Arduino board. > > What I was thinking of doing was putting a single NEMA message on the > Blue Pill board. Then connect the UART transmit line to the Arduino in > place of the GPS UART line. That way I could send the same NEMA message > without having it change every minute. I would count 60 (or maybe 62) > pps coming from the GPS and I would know the Arduino was ready for the > next NEMA message. > > Initially I will use the GPS UART transmit line to confirm the > Arduino/GPS combo works. Then play with sending my own NEMA GPRMC > message from the Blue Pill board. > > > It appears your software simply reads the TX buffer of the GPS until it > is empty once per minute and then proceeds to parse the NEMA time/date > information out one bit per second. However, the La Crosse Ultratomic > clock would not work with this data stream since you are stripping the > phase reversals out. Is that correct? > > I want to extract the time information only. So I would feed the 60 kHz > sine wave into the preamp wire on the flipper board. Is that correct? > > Ray, > AB7HE > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions > From: paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> > Date: Thu, July 30, 2020 5:14 pm > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > > Ray > Are you speaking to the d-psk-r software? Its quite a bit more involved > than what you mentioned. Its in the coding sequence. But could it be put > on > a bluepill absolutely. Its worked on all of the arduinos we have tried. > The > other thing is that by feeding a 60 KHz CW signal into the d-psk-r > modulator/flipper it turns the signal into a wwvb bpsk signal. No AM > modulation. But for bench testing its a noise free signal. > But I am interested in the approach you are trying to develop that I > guess > might be a SDR solution. Good luck looking forward to your success. > Regards > Paul. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.
PS
paul swed
Fri, Jul 31, 2020 1:37 PM

Ray Yes you have it correct. The flipper is bidirectional. It either adds
flips or removes them.
It does read the nema second per minute in the 59th second. Then depends on
the 1 pps for an accurate phase flip. The flip is 100 ms into the second
and by propagation delay to the east 5-7ms. Though the reality is if the
flips not exact the phase tracking receivers work just fine.
But beyond the simple reading of the nema sentence its the magical
conversion to the new wwvb message format thats quite difficult. Then they
turned on teh slow code and Rodger and I worked that issue. That actually
took some months to resolve the fast and slow code integration.
So as a transmitter put the software on an arduino or bluepill. Since you
are just doing work locally the nema sentence can be repeated over and over.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 12:01 AM rcbuck@atcelectronics.com wrote:

Paul,

I wasn't talking about putting the d-psk-r software on the Blue Pill
board. The d-psk-r software will be on the Arduino board.

What I was thinking of doing was putting a single NEMA message on the
Blue Pill board. Then connect the UART transmit line to the Arduino in
place of the GPS UART line. That way I could send the same NEMA message
without having it change every minute. I would count 60 (or maybe 62)
pps coming from the GPS and I would know the Arduino was ready for the
next NEMA message.

Initially I will use the GPS UART transmit line to confirm the
Arduino/GPS combo works. Then play with sending my own NEMA GPRMC
message from the Blue Pill board.

It appears your software simply reads the TX buffer of the GPS until it
is empty once per minute and then proceeds to parse the NEMA time/date
information out one bit per second. However, the La Crosse Ultratomic
clock would not work with this data stream since you are stripping the
phase reversals out. Is that correct?

I want to extract the time information only. So I would feed the 60 kHz
sine wave into the preamp wire on the flipper board. Is that correct?

Ray,
AB7HE

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions
From: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
Date: Thu, July 30, 2020 5:14 pm
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Ray
Are you speaking to the d-psk-r software? Its quite a bit more involved
than what you mentioned. Its in the coding sequence. But could it be put
on
a bluepill absolutely. Its worked on all of the arduinos we have tried.
The
other thing is that by feeding a 60 KHz CW signal into the d-psk-r
modulator/flipper it turns the signal into a wwvb bpsk signal. No AM
modulation. But for bench testing its a noise free signal.
But I am interested in the approach you are trying to develop that I
guess
might be a SDR solution. Good luck looking forward to your success.
Regards
Paul.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.


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To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.

Ray Yes you have it correct. The flipper is bidirectional. It either adds flips or removes them. It does read the nema second per minute in the 59th second. Then depends on the 1 pps for an accurate phase flip. The flip is 100 ms into the second and by propagation delay to the east 5-7ms. Though the reality is if the flips not exact the phase tracking receivers work just fine. But beyond the simple reading of the nema sentence its the magical conversion to the new wwvb message format thats quite difficult. Then they turned on teh slow code and Rodger and I worked that issue. That actually took some months to resolve the fast and slow code integration. So as a transmitter put the software on an arduino or bluepill. Since you are just doing work locally the nema sentence can be repeated over and over. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 12:01 AM <rcbuck@atcelectronics.com> wrote: > Paul, > > I wasn't talking about putting the d-psk-r software on the Blue Pill > board. The d-psk-r software will be on the Arduino board. > > What I was thinking of doing was putting a single NEMA message on the > Blue Pill board. Then connect the UART transmit line to the Arduino in > place of the GPS UART line. That way I could send the same NEMA message > without having it change every minute. I would count 60 (or maybe 62) > pps coming from the GPS and I would know the Arduino was ready for the > next NEMA message. > > Initially I will use the GPS UART transmit line to confirm the > Arduino/GPS combo works. Then play with sending my own NEMA GPRMC > message from the Blue Pill board. > > > It appears your software simply reads the TX buffer of the GPS until it > is empty once per minute and then proceeds to parse the NEMA time/date > information out one bit per second. However, the La Crosse Ultratomic > clock would not work with this data stream since you are stripping the > phase reversals out. Is that correct? > > I want to extract the time information only. So I would feed the 60 kHz > sine wave into the preamp wire on the flipper board. Is that correct? > > Ray, > AB7HE > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions > From: paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> > Date: Thu, July 30, 2020 5:14 pm > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > > Ray > Are you speaking to the d-psk-r software? Its quite a bit more involved > than what you mentioned. Its in the coding sequence. But could it be put > on > a bluepill absolutely. Its worked on all of the arduinos we have tried. > The > other thing is that by feeding a 60 KHz CW signal into the d-psk-r > modulator/flipper it turns the signal into a wwvb bpsk signal. No AM > modulation. But for bench testing its a noise free signal. > But I am interested in the approach you are trying to develop that I > guess > might be a SDR solution. Good luck looking forward to your success. > Regards > Paul. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. >
SW
Scud West
Fri, Jul 31, 2020 6:25 PM

Back in December 2018 there was a WWVB thread.

From Poul-Henning's post on 2018-12-05 quoting John N8UR:

"While everyone's been talking :-) , I recorded some WWVB IQ data for
folks to play with.  You can download it from

http://febo.com/pages/wwvb/

The receiver ran at 48 ksps and was centered on 80 kHz (to allow a 20
kHz IF to move away from 0 Hz crud).  The data was taken in early
afternoon in Dayton, Ohio.  WWVB was easily visible in an FFT."

I ran the python code posted by Poul-Henning with the WWVB IQ data.
The resulting file 'out.txt' has columns for sample time, amplitude,
and phase.  It was used for the plots below.  There is about 10
minutes of data.

initial data: n8ur_rx_center=0.08MHz_rate=48ksps_start=2018.12.05.13.57.54.bin
(236 MB)
plotted data: out.txt  (2.4 MB, 61,000 datapoints)

I hadn't looked at phase data before, and it took a while to make any
sense of it.  It's surprising how well the bit per second data came
through, compared to amplitude modulation.  Different filtering will
likely improve the AM performance, but the phase plot looked good now,
so here it is.

The first graph shows the +90 degree phase shift (top line) and -90
(bottom line).  The SDR clock appears relatively stable at first, but
drifts lower in frequency at a fairly steady rate until about 550
seconds, when it flattens out again.  Overall a bit over 180 degrees
more than expected.  A half cycle at 60 kHz, or about 8.3e-06 drift in
10 minutes.  The unpleasantness at about 470 seconds is reflected in
the 10 minute plot during minute 7 (3 lines down from the top).  I
removed the 'drift' in a crude manner, and it's a wonder it worked as
well as it did.

The middle two graphs are the same data at different time scales.  I'm
not sure if the short term phase variation has any meaning, or if it's
'just noise' at this level.  The WWVB phase change actually takes
place 0.1 seconds after the start of the second, but it fit just right
for display as is.  The real minute begins at second 6, and this is
adjustment is made in the 10 minute waterfall plot.  The first few
seconds of data are at the bottom left corner.

Green denotes binary 1, phase shift +90 degrees.
Red is binary 0, phase shift -90 degrees.

A simplified description of WWVB phase-modulated time code:

seconds  0 - 12  fixed sync  0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
seconds 13 - 18  time parity (ECC)
seconds 19 - 46  binary minute of century
seconds 47 - 58  DST and leap sec
second  59      fixed sync  0

these seconds are notable here:

43, 44, 45, 46 contain changing binary minutes 3, 2, 1, 0
19  a copy of binary minute 0
29, 39  Reserved, but also a copy of binary minute 0 in this sample.

I'm using python, numpy, matplotlib, and Pandas.  It all runs pretty
quick on my machine, only a few seconds to load, calculate, and
display the graphs.

I'm going to try looking directly at John's IQ data to see the effect
of the larger dataset on results and calculation time.  It's a big
help knowing what the processed IQ should look like.  Thanks for the
data and code,

Rob

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 7:00 AM paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:

Ray Yes you have it correct. The flipper is bidirectional. It either adds
flips or removes them.
It does read the nema second per minute in the 59th second. Then depends on
the 1 pps for an accurate phase flip. The flip is 100 ms into the second
and by propagation delay to the east 5-7ms. Though the reality is if the
flips not exact the phase tracking receivers work just fine.
But beyond the simple reading of the nema sentence its the magical
conversion to the new wwvb message format thats quite difficult. Then they
turned on teh slow code and Rodger and I worked that issue. That actually
took some months to resolve the fast and slow code integration.
So as a transmitter put the software on an arduino or bluepill. Since you
are just doing work locally the nema sentence can be repeated over and over.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 12:01 AM rcbuck@atcelectronics.com wrote:

Paul,

I wasn't talking about putting the d-psk-r software on the Blue Pill
board. The d-psk-r software will be on the Arduino board.

What I was thinking of doing was putting a single NEMA message on the
Blue Pill board. Then connect the UART transmit line to the Arduino in
place of the GPS UART line. That way I could send the same NEMA message
without having it change every minute. I would count 60 (or maybe 62)
pps coming from the GPS and I would know the Arduino was ready for the
next NEMA message.

Initially I will use the GPS UART transmit line to confirm the
Arduino/GPS combo works. Then play with sending my own NEMA GPRMC
message from the Blue Pill board.

It appears your software simply reads the TX buffer of the GPS until it
is empty once per minute and then proceeds to parse the NEMA time/date
information out one bit per second. However, the La Crosse Ultratomic
clock would not work with this data stream since you are stripping the
phase reversals out. Is that correct?

I want to extract the time information only. So I would feed the 60 kHz
sine wave into the preamp wire on the flipper board. Is that correct?

Ray,
AB7HE

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions
From: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
Date: Thu, July 30, 2020 5:14 pm
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Ray
Are you speaking to the d-psk-r software? Its quite a bit more involved
than what you mentioned. Its in the coding sequence. But could it be put
on
a bluepill absolutely. Its worked on all of the arduinos we have tried.
The
other thing is that by feeding a 60 KHz CW signal into the d-psk-r
modulator/flipper it turns the signal into a wwvb bpsk signal. No AM
modulation. But for bench testing its a noise free signal.
But I am interested in the approach you are trying to develop that I
guess
might be a SDR solution. Good luck looking forward to your success.
Regards
Paul.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.


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To unsubscribe, go to
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To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Back in December 2018 there was a WWVB thread. >From Poul-Henning's post on 2018-12-05 quoting John N8UR: "While everyone's been talking :-) , I recorded some WWVB IQ data for folks to play with. You can download it from http://febo.com/pages/wwvb/ The receiver ran at 48 ksps and was centered on 80 kHz (to allow a 20 kHz IF to move away from 0 Hz crud). The data was taken in early afternoon in Dayton, Ohio. WWVB was easily visible in an FFT." I ran the python code posted by Poul-Henning with the WWVB IQ data. The resulting file 'out.txt' has columns for sample time, amplitude, and phase. It was used for the plots below. There is about 10 minutes of data. initial data: n8ur_rx_center=0.08MHz_rate=48ksps_start=2018.12.05.13.57.54.bin (236 MB) plotted data: out.txt (2.4 MB, 61,000 datapoints) I hadn't looked at phase data before, and it took a while to make any sense of it. It's surprising how well the bit per second data came through, compared to amplitude modulation. Different filtering will likely improve the AM performance, but the phase plot looked good now, so here it is. The first graph shows the +90 degree phase shift (top line) and -90 (bottom line). The SDR clock appears relatively stable at first, but drifts lower in frequency at a fairly steady rate until about 550 seconds, when it flattens out again. Overall a bit over 180 degrees more than expected. A half cycle at 60 kHz, or about 8.3e-06 drift in 10 minutes. The unpleasantness at about 470 seconds is reflected in the 10 minute plot during minute 7 (3 lines down from the top). I removed the 'drift' in a crude manner, and it's a wonder it worked as well as it did. The middle two graphs are the same data at different time scales. I'm not sure if the short term phase variation has any meaning, or if it's 'just noise' at this level. The WWVB phase change actually takes place 0.1 seconds after the start of the second, but it fit just right for display as is. The real minute begins at second 6, and this is adjustment is made in the 10 minute waterfall plot. The first few seconds of data are at the bottom left corner. Green denotes binary 1, phase shift +90 degrees. Red is binary 0, phase shift -90 degrees. A simplified description of WWVB phase-modulated time code: seconds 0 - 12 fixed sync 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0 seconds 13 - 18 time parity (ECC) seconds 19 - 46 binary minute of century seconds 47 - 58 DST and leap sec second 59 fixed sync 0 these seconds are notable here: 43, 44, 45, 46 contain changing binary minutes 3, 2, 1, 0 19 a copy of binary minute 0 29, 39 Reserved, but also a copy of binary minute 0 in this sample. I'm using python, numpy, matplotlib, and Pandas. It all runs pretty quick on my machine, only a few seconds to load, calculate, and display the graphs. I'm going to try looking directly at John's IQ data to see the effect of the larger dataset on results and calculation time. It's a big help knowing what the processed IQ should look like. Thanks for the data and code, Rob On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 7:00 AM paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > > Ray Yes you have it correct. The flipper is bidirectional. It either adds > flips or removes them. > It does read the nema second per minute in the 59th second. Then depends on > the 1 pps for an accurate phase flip. The flip is 100 ms into the second > and by propagation delay to the east 5-7ms. Though the reality is if the > flips not exact the phase tracking receivers work just fine. > But beyond the simple reading of the nema sentence its the magical > conversion to the new wwvb message format thats quite difficult. Then they > turned on teh slow code and Rodger and I worked that issue. That actually > took some months to resolve the fast and slow code integration. > So as a transmitter put the software on an arduino or bluepill. Since you > are just doing work locally the nema sentence can be repeated over and over. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 12:01 AM <rcbuck@atcelectronics.com> wrote: > > > Paul, > > > > I wasn't talking about putting the d-psk-r software on the Blue Pill > > board. The d-psk-r software will be on the Arduino board. > > > > What I was thinking of doing was putting a single NEMA message on the > > Blue Pill board. Then connect the UART transmit line to the Arduino in > > place of the GPS UART line. That way I could send the same NEMA message > > without having it change every minute. I would count 60 (or maybe 62) > > pps coming from the GPS and I would know the Arduino was ready for the > > next NEMA message. > > > > Initially I will use the GPS UART transmit line to confirm the > > Arduino/GPS combo works. Then play with sending my own NEMA GPRMC > > message from the Blue Pill board. > > > > > > It appears your software simply reads the TX buffer of the GPS until it > > is empty once per minute and then proceeds to parse the NEMA time/date > > information out one bit per second. However, the La Crosse Ultratomic > > clock would not work with this data stream since you are stripping the > > phase reversals out. Is that correct? > > > > I want to extract the time information only. So I would feed the 60 kHz > > sine wave into the preamp wire on the flipper board. Is that correct? > > > > Ray, > > AB7HE > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions > > From: paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> > > Date: Thu, July 30, 2020 5:14 pm > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > > > > Ray > > Are you speaking to the d-psk-r software? Its quite a bit more involved > > than what you mentioned. Its in the coding sequence. But could it be put > > on > > a bluepill absolutely. Its worked on all of the arduinos we have tried. > > The > > other thing is that by feeding a 60 KHz CW signal into the d-psk-r > > modulator/flipper it turns the signal into a wwvb bpsk signal. No AM > > modulation. But for bench testing its a noise free signal. > > But I am interested in the approach you are trying to develop that I > > guess > > might be a SDR solution. Good luck looking forward to your success. > > Regards > > Paul. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.
J
jimlux
Fri, Jul 31, 2020 7:27 PM

On 7/31/20 11:25 AM, Scud West wrote:

Back in December 2018 there was a WWVB thread.

From Poul-Henning's post on 2018-12-05 quoting John N8UR:

"While everyone's been talking :-) , I recorded some WWVB IQ data for
folks to play with.  You can download it from

http://febo.com/pages/wwvb/

The receiver ran at 48 ksps and was centered on 80 kHz (to allow a 20
kHz IF to move away from 0 Hz crud).  The data was taken in early
afternoon in Dayton, Ohio.  WWVB was easily visible in an FFT."

I ran the python code posted by Poul-Henning with the WWVB IQ data.
The resulting file 'out.txt' has columns for sample time, amplitude,
and phase.  It was used for the plots below.  There is about 10
minutes of data.

initial data: n8ur_rx_center=0.08MHz_rate=48ksps_start=2018.12.05.13.57.54.bin
(236 MB)
plotted data: out.txt  (2.4 MB, 61,000 datapoints)

I hadn't looked at phase data before, and it took a while to make any
sense of it.  It's surprising how well the bit per second data came
through, compared to amplitude modulation.  Different filtering will
likely improve the AM performance, but the phase plot looked good now,
so here it is.

The first graph shows the +90 degree phase shift (top line) and -90
(bottom line).  The SDR clock appears relatively stable at first, but
drifts lower in frequency at a fairly steady rate until about 550
seconds, when it flattens out again.  Overall a bit over 180 degrees
more than expected.  A half cycle at 60 kHz, or about 8.3e-06 drift in
10 minutes.  The unpleasantness at about 470 seconds is reflected in
the 10 minute plot during minute 7 (3 lines down from the top).  I
removed the 'drift' in a crude manner, and it's a wonder it worked as
well as it did.

The middle two graphs are the same data at different time scales.  I'm
not sure if the short term phase variation has any meaning, or if it's
'just noise' at this level.  The WWVB phase change actually takes
place 0.1 seconds after the start of the second, but it fit just right
for display as is.  The real minute begins at second 6, and this is
adjustment is made in the 10 minute waterfall plot.  The first few
seconds of data are at the bottom left corner.

Green denotes binary 1, phase shift +90 degrees.
Red is binary 0, phase shift -90 degrees.

A simplified description of WWVB phase-modulated time code:

seconds  0 - 12  fixed sync  0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
seconds 13 - 18  time parity (ECC)
seconds 19 - 46  binary minute of century
seconds 47 - 58  DST and leap sec
second  59      fixed sync  0

these seconds are notable here:

43, 44, 45, 46 contain changing binary minutes 3, 2, 1, 0
19  a copy of binary minute 0
29, 39  Reserved, but also a copy of binary minute 0 in this sample.

I'm using python, numpy, matplotlib, and Pandas.  It all runs pretty
quick on my machine, only a few seconds to load, calculate, and
display the graphs.

I'm going to try looking directly at John's IQ data to see the effect
of the larger dataset on results and calculation time.  It's a big
help knowing what the processed IQ should look like.  Thanks for the
data and code,

Rob

Nice looking plots..Did you generate the colored red/green "fill to
baseline" in matplotlib, or is that out of Pandas?

The stacked plot is also very nice.

Good looking plots really help to understand what's going on.

(and of course, a shout out to Edward Tufte, who I am often inspired by)

On 7/31/20 11:25 AM, Scud West wrote: > Back in December 2018 there was a WWVB thread. > > From Poul-Henning's post on 2018-12-05 quoting John N8UR: > > "While everyone's been talking :-) , I recorded some WWVB IQ data for > folks to play with. You can download it from > > http://febo.com/pages/wwvb/ > > The receiver ran at 48 ksps and was centered on 80 kHz (to allow a 20 > kHz IF to move away from 0 Hz crud). The data was taken in early > afternoon in Dayton, Ohio. WWVB was easily visible in an FFT." > > > I ran the python code posted by Poul-Henning with the WWVB IQ data. > The resulting file 'out.txt' has columns for sample time, amplitude, > and phase. It was used for the plots below. There is about 10 > minutes of data. > > initial data: n8ur_rx_center=0.08MHz_rate=48ksps_start=2018.12.05.13.57.54.bin > (236 MB) > plotted data: out.txt (2.4 MB, 61,000 datapoints) > > I hadn't looked at phase data before, and it took a while to make any > sense of it. It's surprising how well the bit per second data came > through, compared to amplitude modulation. Different filtering will > likely improve the AM performance, but the phase plot looked good now, > so here it is. > > The first graph shows the +90 degree phase shift (top line) and -90 > (bottom line). The SDR clock appears relatively stable at first, but > drifts lower in frequency at a fairly steady rate until about 550 > seconds, when it flattens out again. Overall a bit over 180 degrees > more than expected. A half cycle at 60 kHz, or about 8.3e-06 drift in > 10 minutes. The unpleasantness at about 470 seconds is reflected in > the 10 minute plot during minute 7 (3 lines down from the top). I > removed the 'drift' in a crude manner, and it's a wonder it worked as > well as it did. > > The middle two graphs are the same data at different time scales. I'm > not sure if the short term phase variation has any meaning, or if it's > 'just noise' at this level. The WWVB phase change actually takes > place 0.1 seconds after the start of the second, but it fit just right > for display as is. The real minute begins at second 6, and this is > adjustment is made in the 10 minute waterfall plot. The first few > seconds of data are at the bottom left corner. > > Green denotes binary 1, phase shift +90 degrees. > Red is binary 0, phase shift -90 degrees. > > A simplified description of WWVB phase-modulated time code: > > seconds 0 - 12 fixed sync 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0 > seconds 13 - 18 time parity (ECC) > seconds 19 - 46 binary minute of century > seconds 47 - 58 DST and leap sec > second 59 fixed sync 0 > > these seconds are notable here: > > 43, 44, 45, 46 contain changing binary minutes 3, 2, 1, 0 > 19 a copy of binary minute 0 > 29, 39 Reserved, but also a copy of binary minute 0 in this sample. > > > I'm using python, numpy, matplotlib, and Pandas. It all runs pretty > quick on my machine, only a few seconds to load, calculate, and > display the graphs. > > I'm going to try looking directly at John's IQ data to see the effect > of the larger dataset on results and calculation time. It's a big > help knowing what the processed IQ should look like. Thanks for the > data and code, > > Rob > Nice looking plots..Did you generate the colored red/green "fill to baseline" in matplotlib, or is that out of Pandas? The stacked plot is also very nice. Good looking plots really help to understand what's going on. (and of course, a shout out to Edward Tufte, who I am often inspired by)
SW
Scud West
Fri, Jul 31, 2020 8:42 PM

The coloring is from matplotlib.  Sometimes I forget what's what. I'm
really not using pandas for much here.  Most of the code in plotting a
minute of data is in making it look fancy.

import numpy as np
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
import matplotlib.ticker as tkr
import matplotlib.mlab as mlab
import pandas as pd

sFile = 'out.txt'  # in current directory, or give full path

df = pd.read_csv(sFile, header=None,
names=['sample_time', 'amplitude', 'phase'],
sep=' ', index_col=0)

phase_deg = np.rad2deg(df_phase.phase)  # phase_deg is a series

plt.subplots(figsize=(15, 3))
ax = plt.subplot(1,1,1)
plt.title('WWVB Phase    5 - 70 sec')

ax.plot(phase_deg.clip(-120, 120), lw=0.4)

plt.xlim(6, 71)
plt.ylim(-150, 150)

ax.fill_between(phase_deg.index,
0,
phase_deg.clip(-120, 120), where=phase_deg>=0,
color='green', alpha=0.15)

ax.fill_between(phase_deg.index,
0,
phase_deg.clip(-120, 120), where=phase_deg<0,
color='red', alpha=0.15)

ax.xaxis.set_major_locator(tkr.MaxNLocator(8))
ax.xaxis.set_minor_locator(tkr.AutoMinorLocator(n=10))
ax.grid(b=True, which='major', c='g', linestyle='-', linewidth=0.7)
ax.grid(b=True, which='minor', c='g', linestyle='-', linewidth=0.2)

sSave = 'wwvb_phase_5_70.png'
plt.savefig(sSave, bbox_inches='tight', transparent=False, dpi=100)

Rob

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 1:15 PM jimlux jimlux@earthlink.net wrote:

On 7/31/20 11:25 AM, Scud West wrote:

Back in December 2018 there was a WWVB thread.

From Poul-Henning's post on 2018-12-05 quoting John N8UR:

"While everyone's been talking :-) , I recorded some WWVB IQ data for
folks to play with.  You can download it from

http://febo.com/pages/wwvb/

The receiver ran at 48 ksps and was centered on 80 kHz (to allow a 20
kHz IF to move away from 0 Hz crud).  The data was taken in early
afternoon in Dayton, Ohio.  WWVB was easily visible in an FFT."

I ran the python code posted by Poul-Henning with the WWVB IQ data.
The resulting file 'out.txt' has columns for sample time, amplitude,
and phase.  It was used for the plots below.  There is about 10
minutes of data.

initial data: n8ur_rx_center=0.08MHz_rate=48ksps_start=2018.12.05.13.57.54.bin
(236 MB)
plotted data: out.txt  (2.4 MB, 61,000 datapoints)

I hadn't looked at phase data before, and it took a while to make any
sense of it.  It's surprising how well the bit per second data came
through, compared to amplitude modulation.  Different filtering will
likely improve the AM performance, but the phase plot looked good now,
so here it is.

The first graph shows the +90 degree phase shift (top line) and -90
(bottom line).  The SDR clock appears relatively stable at first, but
drifts lower in frequency at a fairly steady rate until about 550
seconds, when it flattens out again.  Overall a bit over 180 degrees
more than expected.  A half cycle at 60 kHz, or about 8.3e-06 drift in
10 minutes.  The unpleasantness at about 470 seconds is reflected in
the 10 minute plot during minute 7 (3 lines down from the top).  I
removed the 'drift' in a crude manner, and it's a wonder it worked as
well as it did.

The middle two graphs are the same data at different time scales.  I'm
not sure if the short term phase variation has any meaning, or if it's
'just noise' at this level.  The WWVB phase change actually takes
place 0.1 seconds after the start of the second, but it fit just right
for display as is.  The real minute begins at second 6, and this is
adjustment is made in the 10 minute waterfall plot.  The first few
seconds of data are at the bottom left corner.

Green denotes binary 1, phase shift +90 degrees.
Red is binary 0, phase shift -90 degrees.

A simplified description of WWVB phase-modulated time code:

seconds  0 - 12  fixed sync  0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
seconds 13 - 18  time parity (ECC)
seconds 19 - 46  binary minute of century
seconds 47 - 58  DST and leap sec
second  59      fixed sync  0

these seconds are notable here:

43, 44, 45, 46 contain changing binary minutes 3, 2, 1, 0
19  a copy of binary minute 0
29, 39  Reserved, but also a copy of binary minute 0 in this sample.

I'm using python, numpy, matplotlib, and Pandas.  It all runs pretty
quick on my machine, only a few seconds to load, calculate, and
display the graphs.

I'm going to try looking directly at John's IQ data to see the effect
of the larger dataset on results and calculation time.  It's a big
help knowing what the processed IQ should look like.  Thanks for the
data and code,

Rob

Nice looking plots..Did you generate the colored red/green "fill to
baseline" in matplotlib, or is that out of Pandas?

The stacked plot is also very nice.

Good looking plots really help to understand what's going on.

(and of course, a shout out to Edward Tufte, who I am often inspired by)


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

The coloring is from matplotlib. Sometimes I forget what's what. I'm really not using pandas for much here. Most of the code in plotting a minute of data is in making it look fancy. import numpy as np import matplotlib.pyplot as plt import matplotlib.ticker as tkr import matplotlib.mlab as mlab import pandas as pd sFile = 'out.txt' # in current directory, or give full path df = pd.read_csv(sFile, header=None, names=['sample_time', 'amplitude', 'phase'], sep=' ', index_col=0) phase_deg = np.rad2deg(df_phase.phase) # phase_deg is a series plt.subplots(figsize=(15, 3)) ax = plt.subplot(1,1,1) plt.title('WWVB Phase 5 - 70 sec') ax.plot(phase_deg.clip(-120, 120), lw=0.4) plt.xlim(6, 71) plt.ylim(-150, 150) ax.fill_between(phase_deg.index, 0, phase_deg.clip(-120, 120), where=phase_deg>=0, color='green', alpha=0.15) ax.fill_between(phase_deg.index, 0, phase_deg.clip(-120, 120), where=phase_deg<0, color='red', alpha=0.15) ax.xaxis.set_major_locator(tkr.MaxNLocator(8)) ax.xaxis.set_minor_locator(tkr.AutoMinorLocator(n=10)) ax.grid(b=True, which='major', c='g', linestyle='-', linewidth=0.7) ax.grid(b=True, which='minor', c='g', linestyle='-', linewidth=0.2) sSave = 'wwvb_phase_5_70.png' plt.savefig(sSave, bbox_inches='tight', transparent=False, dpi=100) Rob On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 1:15 PM jimlux <jimlux@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On 7/31/20 11:25 AM, Scud West wrote: > > Back in December 2018 there was a WWVB thread. > > > > From Poul-Henning's post on 2018-12-05 quoting John N8UR: > > > > "While everyone's been talking :-) , I recorded some WWVB IQ data for > > folks to play with. You can download it from > > > > http://febo.com/pages/wwvb/ > > > > The receiver ran at 48 ksps and was centered on 80 kHz (to allow a 20 > > kHz IF to move away from 0 Hz crud). The data was taken in early > > afternoon in Dayton, Ohio. WWVB was easily visible in an FFT." > > > > > > I ran the python code posted by Poul-Henning with the WWVB IQ data. > > The resulting file 'out.txt' has columns for sample time, amplitude, > > and phase. It was used for the plots below. There is about 10 > > minutes of data. > > > > initial data: n8ur_rx_center=0.08MHz_rate=48ksps_start=2018.12.05.13.57.54.bin > > (236 MB) > > plotted data: out.txt (2.4 MB, 61,000 datapoints) > > > > I hadn't looked at phase data before, and it took a while to make any > > sense of it. It's surprising how well the bit per second data came > > through, compared to amplitude modulation. Different filtering will > > likely improve the AM performance, but the phase plot looked good now, > > so here it is. > > > > The first graph shows the +90 degree phase shift (top line) and -90 > > (bottom line). The SDR clock appears relatively stable at first, but > > drifts lower in frequency at a fairly steady rate until about 550 > > seconds, when it flattens out again. Overall a bit over 180 degrees > > more than expected. A half cycle at 60 kHz, or about 8.3e-06 drift in > > 10 minutes. The unpleasantness at about 470 seconds is reflected in > > the 10 minute plot during minute 7 (3 lines down from the top). I > > removed the 'drift' in a crude manner, and it's a wonder it worked as > > well as it did. > > > > The middle two graphs are the same data at different time scales. I'm > > not sure if the short term phase variation has any meaning, or if it's > > 'just noise' at this level. The WWVB phase change actually takes > > place 0.1 seconds after the start of the second, but it fit just right > > for display as is. The real minute begins at second 6, and this is > > adjustment is made in the 10 minute waterfall plot. The first few > > seconds of data are at the bottom left corner. > > > > Green denotes binary 1, phase shift +90 degrees. > > Red is binary 0, phase shift -90 degrees. > > > > A simplified description of WWVB phase-modulated time code: > > > > seconds 0 - 12 fixed sync 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0 > > seconds 13 - 18 time parity (ECC) > > seconds 19 - 46 binary minute of century > > seconds 47 - 58 DST and leap sec > > second 59 fixed sync 0 > > > > these seconds are notable here: > > > > 43, 44, 45, 46 contain changing binary minutes 3, 2, 1, 0 > > 19 a copy of binary minute 0 > > 29, 39 Reserved, but also a copy of binary minute 0 in this sample. > > > > > > I'm using python, numpy, matplotlib, and Pandas. It all runs pretty > > quick on my machine, only a few seconds to load, calculate, and > > display the graphs. > > > > I'm going to try looking directly at John's IQ data to see the effect > > of the larger dataset on results and calculation time. It's a big > > help knowing what the processed IQ should look like. Thanks for the > > data and code, > > > > Rob > > > > > Nice looking plots..Did you generate the colored red/green "fill to > baseline" in matplotlib, or is that out of Pandas? > > The stacked plot is also very nice. > > Good looking plots really help to understand what's going on. > > (and of course, a shout out to Edward Tufte, who I am often inspired by) > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.
PK
Poul-Henning Kamp
Fri, Jul 31, 2020 9:00 PM

Bob kb8tq writes:

The WWVB modulation is very predictable. Once you have lock,
you can guess just about every phase reversal you will see.
[...]
The point of this being that you could pre-flip the data before it
went into a buffer. That way the buffer integration time constant
could be quite long.

I would just use two buffers and decide which one based on the
prediction, that way DC-offsets will not cause trouble.

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

-------- Bob kb8tq writes: >The WWVB modulation is *very* predictable. Once you have lock, >you can guess just about every phase reversal you will see. >[...] >The point of this being that you *could* pre-flip the data before it >went into a buffer. That way the buffer integration time constant >could be quite long. I would just use two buffers and decide which one based on the prediction, that way DC-offsets will not cause trouble. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
BK
Bob kb8tq
Fri, Jul 31, 2020 9:49 PM

Hi

It also very much depends on the stability of your local reference and the
stability of the ionosphere. Unless both are “pretty darn good” a hundred second
integration is utter nonsense

Bob

On Jul 31, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:


Bob kb8tq writes:

The WWVB modulation is very predictable. Once you have lock,
you can guess just about every phase reversal you will see.
[...]
The point of this being that you could pre-flip the data before it
went into a buffer. That way the buffer integration time constant
could be quite long.

I would just use two buffers and decide which one based on the
prediction, that way DC-offsets will not cause trouble.

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Hi It also *very* much depends on the stability of your local reference and the stability of the ionosphere. Unless both are “pretty darn good” a hundred second integration is utter nonsense Bob > On Jul 31, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> wrote: > > -------- > Bob kb8tq writes: > >> The WWVB modulation is *very* predictable. Once you have lock, >> you can guess just about every phase reversal you will see. >> [...] >> The point of this being that you *could* pre-flip the data before it >> went into a buffer. That way the buffer integration time constant >> could be quite long. > > I would just use two buffers and decide which one based on the > prediction, that way DC-offsets will not cause trouble. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
PK
Poul-Henning Kamp
Fri, Jul 31, 2020 9:53 PM

Bob kb8tq writes:

It also very much depends on the stability of your local reference and the
stability of the ionosphere. Unless both are 'pretty darn good' a hundred second
integration is utter nonsense

This is why Loran-C was so superior to any and all CW based modulations.

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

-------- Bob kb8tq writes: > It also *very* much depends on the stability of your local reference and the > stability of the ionosphere. Unless both are 'pretty darn good' a hundred second > integration is utter nonsense This is why Loran-C was so superior to any and all CW based modulations. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
PS
paul swed
Sat, Aug 1, 2020 3:59 PM

What may be helpful to the wwvb projects is what is always fixed. This
comes out of the NIST document. Assume you have a fairly good oscillator.
If it can hold within 1/2 cycle of 60 KHz (10 us) for 47 seconds you can
simply sample the top minute sync word. Thats from 59-11 seconds. Always
fixed. But thats a bit too easy. NIST gave us a bit more of a challenge. At
10 and 40 past the hour the slow code runs and its format is different. But
has a 106 second sync word thats always fixed and always at the same
location.
If you have a locked oscillator then the timecode recovery is reasonable.
Decoding the actual timecode is a serious pain.
Good luck
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 6:07 PM Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dk
wrote:


Bob kb8tq writes:

It also very much depends on the stability of your local reference and

the

stability of the ionosphere. Unless both are 'pretty darn good' a

hundred second

integration is utter nonsense

This is why Loran-C was so superior to any and all CW based modulations.

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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What may be helpful to the wwvb projects is what is always fixed. This comes out of the NIST document. Assume you have a fairly good oscillator. If it can hold within 1/2 cycle of 60 KHz (10 us) for 47 seconds you can simply sample the top minute sync word. Thats from 59-11 seconds. Always fixed. But thats a bit too easy. NIST gave us a bit more of a challenge. At 10 and 40 past the hour the slow code runs and its format is different. But has a 106 second sync word thats always fixed and always at the same location. If you have a locked oscillator then the timecode recovery is reasonable. Decoding the actual timecode is a serious pain. Good luck Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 6:07 PM Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> wrote: > -------- > Bob kb8tq writes: > > > It also *very* much depends on the stability of your local reference and > the > > stability of the ionosphere. Unless both are 'pretty darn good' a > hundred second > > integration is utter nonsense > > This is why Loran-C was so superior to any and all CW based modulations. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. >