Empathy List Archives

DM

Demian Martin

Wed, Jul 25, 2012 10:47 PM

Bob:
Perhaps you can describe how to do this. I can't see a way that would not
make a huge mess (big torch) or not ever get there (big soldering iron). I
would really like to be able to get inside of some of these without making
them all into trash.
Demian

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:10:55 -0400
From: Bob Camp lists@rtty.us
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
Message-ID: A99EEE8D-E120-48CF-84D6-D3434B754B1A@rtty.us
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Hi

That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop
open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it?

Bob

Bob: Perhaps you can describe how to do this. I can't see a way that would not make a huge mess (big torch) or not ever get there (big soldering iron). I would really like to be able to get inside of some of these without making them all into trash. Demian ____________________________________________________________________________ _____________________ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:10:55 -0400 From: Bob Camp <lists@rtty.us> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo Message-ID: <A99EEE8D-E120-48CF-84D6-D3434B754B1A@rtty.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it? Bob

BC

Bob Camp

Thu, Jul 26, 2012 4:05 PM

Hi

Standard approach:

Secure the "top" of the part (the cover) in a vise. You need something
between the cover and metal jaws to keep it from wicking the heat. Leather
works, so do plastic inserts. Keep the jaws as far away from the base as
practical.
Fire up what ever you have for a major soldering job. Big old tube era
soldering irons are the weapon of choice for many. Others use torches. If
it's an old electric iron, let it heat for at least 30 minutes.
Start working around the lip of the base with the iron. As you heat, the
solder will start to run. Wick it out with your favorite brand of wicking
material (coax braid also works). You probably will need to make two loops
around the part to get the bulk of the solder off.
Continue with heat, and use a knife blade to separate the base from the
cover. It's a little bit at a time thing. Some parts will go fast, others
not so fast. You slowly walk the two parts apart. On the part you have, you
may need to spread the base open a bit to get the cover to move easily.

First time out, it can take a while to get it done. After you have done a
few hundred, it's easier.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Demian Martin
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:47 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans

Bob:
Perhaps you can describe how to do this. I can't see a way that would not
make a huge mess (big torch) or not ever get there (big soldering iron). I
would really like to be able to get inside of some of these without making
them all into trash.
Demian

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:10:55 -0400
From: Bob Camp lists@rtty.us
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
Message-ID: A99EEE8D-E120-48CF-84D6-D3434B754B1A@rtty.us
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Hi

That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop
open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it?

Bob

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Standard approach: 1) Secure the "top" of the part (the cover) in a vise. You need something between the cover and metal jaws to keep it from wicking the heat. Leather works, so do plastic inserts. Keep the jaws as far away from the base as practical. 2) Fire up what ever you have for a major soldering job. Big old tube era soldering irons are the weapon of choice for many. Others use torches. If it's an old electric iron, let it heat for at least 30 minutes. 3) Start working around the lip of the base with the iron. As you heat, the solder will start to run. Wick it out with your favorite brand of wicking material (coax braid also works). You probably will need to make two loops around the part to get the bulk of the solder off. 4) Continue with heat, and use a knife blade to separate the base from the cover. It's a little bit at a time thing. Some parts will go fast, others not so fast. You slowly walk the two parts apart. On the part you have, you may need to spread the base open a bit to get the cover to move easily. First time out, it can take a while to get it done. After you have done a few hundred, it's easier. Bob -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Demian Martin Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:47 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans Bob: Perhaps you can describe how to do this. I can't see a way that would not make a huge mess (big torch) or not ever get there (big soldering iron). I would really like to be able to get inside of some of these without making them all into trash. Demian ____________________________________________________________________________ _____________________ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:10:55 -0400 From: Bob Camp <lists@rtty.us> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo Message-ID: <A99EEE8D-E120-48CF-84D6-D3434B754B1A@rtty.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it? Bob _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

TM

Tom Miller

Thu, Jul 26, 2012 4:49 PM

Hi Bob,

Did you look at his pictures of the oscillator? I think the base will need
to be secured and the top pulled off. This is different from most of the
OCXOs I have seen.

Regards,
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Camp" lists@rtty.us
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans

Hi

Standard approach:

Secure the "top" of the part (the cover) in a vise. You need something
between the cover and metal jaws to keep it from wicking the heat. Leather
works, so do plastic inserts. Keep the jaws as far away from the base as
practical.
Fire up what ever you have for a major soldering job. Big old tube era
soldering irons are the weapon of choice for many. Others use torches. If
it's an old electric iron, let it heat for at least 30 minutes.
Start working around the lip of the base with the iron. As you heat, the
solder will start to run. Wick it out with your favorite brand of wicking
material (coax braid also works). You probably will need to make two loops
around the part to get the bulk of the solder off.
Continue with heat, and use a knife blade to separate the base from the
cover. It's a little bit at a time thing. Some parts will go fast, others
not so fast. You slowly walk the two parts apart. On the part you have, you
may need to spread the base open a bit to get the cover to move easily.

First time out, it can take a while to get it done. After you have done a
few hundred, it's easier.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Demian Martin
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:47 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans

Bob:
Perhaps you can describe how to do this. I can't see a way that would not
make a huge mess (big torch) or not ever get there (big soldering iron). I
would really like to be able to get inside of some of these without making
them all into trash.
Demian

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:10:55 -0400
From: Bob Camp lists@rtty.us
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
Message-ID: A99EEE8D-E120-48CF-84D6-D3434B754B1A@rtty.us
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Hi

That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop
open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it?

Bob

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Bob, Did you look at his pictures of the oscillator? I think the base will need to be secured and the top pulled off. This is different from most of the OCXOs I have seen. Regards, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Camp" <lists@rtty.us> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans Hi Standard approach: 1) Secure the "top" of the part (the cover) in a vise. You need something between the cover and metal jaws to keep it from wicking the heat. Leather works, so do plastic inserts. Keep the jaws as far away from the base as practical. 2) Fire up what ever you have for a major soldering job. Big old tube era soldering irons are the weapon of choice for many. Others use torches. If it's an old electric iron, let it heat for at least 30 minutes. 3) Start working around the lip of the base with the iron. As you heat, the solder will start to run. Wick it out with your favorite brand of wicking material (coax braid also works). You probably will need to make two loops around the part to get the bulk of the solder off. 4) Continue with heat, and use a knife blade to separate the base from the cover. It's a little bit at a time thing. Some parts will go fast, others not so fast. You slowly walk the two parts apart. On the part you have, you may need to spread the base open a bit to get the cover to move easily. First time out, it can take a while to get it done. After you have done a few hundred, it's easier. Bob -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Demian Martin Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:47 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans Bob: Perhaps you can describe how to do this. I can't see a way that would not make a huge mess (big torch) or not ever get there (big soldering iron). I would really like to be able to get inside of some of these without making them all into trash. Demian ____________________________________________________________________________ _____________________ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:10:55 -0400 From: Bob Camp <lists@rtty.us> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo Message-ID: <A99EEE8D-E120-48CF-84D6-D3434B754B1A@rtty.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it? Bob _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

BC

Bob Camp

Thu, Jul 26, 2012 4:57 PM

Hi

Yes, it's a base that goes outside the cover rather than a base that fits
inside the cover. Since the cover is the "big part" it's the only practical
thing to grab onto. The base with the pins coming through it is tough to
pull on without getting yourself into trouble.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Miller
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:49 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans

Hi Bob,

Did you look at his pictures of the oscillator? I think the base will need
to be secured and the top pulled off. This is different from most of the
OCXOs I have seen.

Regards,
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Camp" lists@rtty.us
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans

Hi

Standard approach:

Secure the "top" of the part (the cover) in a vise. You need something
between the cover and metal jaws to keep it from wicking the heat. Leather
works, so do plastic inserts. Keep the jaws as far away from the base as
practical.
Fire up what ever you have for a major soldering job. Big old tube era
soldering irons are the weapon of choice for many. Others use torches. If
it's an old electric iron, let it heat for at least 30 minutes.
Start working around the lip of the base with the iron. As you heat, the
solder will start to run. Wick it out with your favorite brand of wicking
material (coax braid also works). You probably will need to make two loops
around the part to get the bulk of the solder off.
Continue with heat, and use a knife blade to separate the base from the
cover. It's a little bit at a time thing. Some parts will go fast, others
not so fast. You slowly walk the two parts apart. On the part you have, you
may need to spread the base open a bit to get the cover to move easily.

First time out, it can take a while to get it done. After you have done a
few hundred, it's easier.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Demian Martin
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:47 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans

Bob:
Perhaps you can describe how to do this. I can't see a way that would not
make a huge mess (big torch) or not ever get there (big soldering iron). I
would really like to be able to get inside of some of these without making
them all into trash.
Demian

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:10:55 -0400
From: Bob Camp lists@rtty.us
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
Message-ID: A99EEE8D-E120-48CF-84D6-D3434B754B1A@rtty.us
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Hi

That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop
open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it?

Bob

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Yes, it's a base that goes outside the cover rather than a base that fits inside the cover. Since the cover is the "big part" it's the only practical thing to grab onto. The base with the pins coming through it is tough to pull on without getting yourself into trouble. Bob -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Miller Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:49 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans Hi Bob, Did you look at his pictures of the oscillator? I think the base will need to be secured and the top pulled off. This is different from most of the OCXOs I have seen. Regards, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Camp" <lists@rtty.us> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans Hi Standard approach: 1) Secure the "top" of the part (the cover) in a vise. You need something between the cover and metal jaws to keep it from wicking the heat. Leather works, so do plastic inserts. Keep the jaws as far away from the base as practical. 2) Fire up what ever you have for a major soldering job. Big old tube era soldering irons are the weapon of choice for many. Others use torches. If it's an old electric iron, let it heat for at least 30 minutes. 3) Start working around the lip of the base with the iron. As you heat, the solder will start to run. Wick it out with your favorite brand of wicking material (coax braid also works). You probably will need to make two loops around the part to get the bulk of the solder off. 4) Continue with heat, and use a knife blade to separate the base from the cover. It's a little bit at a time thing. Some parts will go fast, others not so fast. You slowly walk the two parts apart. On the part you have, you may need to spread the base open a bit to get the cover to move easily. First time out, it can take a while to get it done. After you have done a few hundred, it's easier. Bob -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Demian Martin Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:47 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans Bob: Perhaps you can describe how to do this. I can't see a way that would not make a huge mess (big torch) or not ever get there (big soldering iron). I would really like to be able to get inside of some of these without making them all into trash. Demian ____________________________________________________________________________ _____________________ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:10:55 -0400 From: Bob Camp <lists@rtty.us> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo Message-ID: <A99EEE8D-E120-48CF-84D6-D3434B754B1A@rtty.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it? Bob _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

PF

Paul Flinders

Thu, Jul 26, 2012 6:20 PM

On 26/07/12 17:49, Tom Miller wrote:

Hi Bob,

Did you look at his pictures of the oscillator? I think the base will
need to be secured and the top pulled off. This is different from most
of the OCXOs I have seen.

I'm somewhat tempted to try putting the bottom in the vice, heating the
whole seam with a hot air gun and trying to pull the case off (with a
heavy leather glove on one hand).

We're having what we laughably call summer in the UK - it's not hot in
any absolute sense (mid-high 20's Celsius) but the humidity after
several week's rain makes it feel as though I just have to get the
case a few degrees above ambient and the solder will melt with ease :-)

On 26/07/12 17:49, Tom Miller wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Did you look at his pictures of the oscillator? I think the base will > need to be secured and the top pulled off. This is different from most > of the OCXOs I have seen. I'm somewhat tempted to try putting the bottom in the vice, heating the whole seam with a hot air gun and trying to pull the case off (with a heavy leather glove on one hand). We're having what we laughably call summer in the UK - it's not hot in any absolute sense (mid-high 20's Celsius) but the humidity after several week's rain makes it *feel* as though I just have to get the case a few degrees above ambient and the solder will melt with ease :-)

TM

Tom Miller

Thu, Jul 26, 2012 7:49 PM

Pick up a few sticks of ChipQuik and mix it in with a good iron. Then, you
may do just what you say. It should melt below about 95°C.
A good hot air heat gun would most likely do the trick. Maybe use some
solder wick first to lower the amount of tin/lead solder. Then add the
chipquik.

You might also just solder a tab on the bottom then you could clamp the top
in a leather jawed vise. Hit it with a hot air gun while pulling on the base
tab.

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Flinders" paul@flinders.org
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans

On 26/07/12 17:49, Tom Miller wrote:

Hi Bob,

Did you look at his pictures of the oscillator? I think the base will
need to be secured and the top pulled off. This is different from most
of the OCXOs I have seen.

I'm somewhat tempted to try putting the bottom in the vice, heating the
whole seam with a hot air gun and trying to pull the case off (with a
heavy leather glove on one hand).

We're having what we laughably call summer in the UK - it's not hot in
any absolute sense (mid-high 20's Celsius) but the humidity after
several week's rain makes it feel as though I just have to get the
case a few degrees above ambient and the solder will melt with ease :-)

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Pick up a few sticks of ChipQuik and mix it in with a good iron. Then, you may do just what you say. It should melt below about 95°C. A good hot air heat gun would most likely do the trick. Maybe use some solder wick first to lower the amount of tin/lead solder. Then add the chipquik. You might also just solder a tab on the bottom then you could clamp the top in a leather jawed vise. Hit it with a hot air gun while pulling on the base tab. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Flinders" <paul@flinders.org> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans On 26/07/12 17:49, Tom Miller wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Did you look at his pictures of the oscillator? I think the base will > need to be secured and the top pulled off. This is different from most > of the OCXOs I have seen. I'm somewhat tempted to try putting the bottom in the vice, heating the whole seam with a hot air gun and trying to pull the case off (with a heavy leather glove on one hand). We're having what we laughably call summer in the UK - it's not hot in any absolute sense (mid-high 20's Celsius) but the humidity after several week's rain makes it *feel* as though I just have to get the case a few degrees above ambient and the solder will melt with ease :-) _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

PF

Paul Flinders

Thu, Jul 26, 2012 9:58 PM

On 26/07/12 20:49, Tom Miller wrote:

Pick up a few sticks of ChipQuik and mix it in with a good iron. Then,
you may do just what you say. It should melt below about 95°C.
A good hot air heat gun would most likely do the trick. Maybe use some
solder wick first to lower the amount of tin/lead solder. Then add the
chipquik.

You might also just solder a tab on the bottom then you could clamp
the top in a leather jawed vise. Hit it with a hot air gun while
pulling on the base tab.

Well, a few exploratory attempts confirmed my initial suspicion that I
don't have a soldering iron big enough for the job - the largest I have
is 60W or so, and the hot air gun didn't touch it even set to 480deg C

So, I reached for the next larger source of heat which is a small
blowtorch I have, set a small flame and ran it round the whole seam then
pulled the top off with a gloved hand. Things did get a bit warm but
only for a short while.

The first thing I encountered was some insulating foam - this was rather
sticky. Not sure whether it had gone like that over time or due to my
heating the whole thing a bit too much. On three sides the foam was
separated from the case by what looks like some thin SRBP. This had
blistered a bit so obviously things were a bit hot just there but the
foam was much the same whether "protected" by the SRBP so I'm wondering
whether this has just disintegrated over time.

Pulling/washing the foam off reveals three PCBs and a further enclosed
metal case with the crystal. A TIP21 bolted to this acts as the heating
element. Originally there had been some cable ties anchoring the crystal
enclosure but these were brittle - presumably from the heat of the oven.

Hooking the unit up to 12V and an oscilloscope shows that it has
survived the encounter with the blow torch and produces a nice 5MHz sine
wave at 2.5V p-p (into 10Meg ohm). Irritatingly it doesn't really want
to misbehave - presumably because whatever didn't like the heat is now
cooler with the insulating foam removed. The inner metal case gets too
hot to touch but the thermostat seems to be working because the current
drawn drops from about 380mA to 240 or so. It should probably be lower
but, again, without the usual amount of insulation it's likely to draw
more keeping the oven up to temperature.

So, as it doesn't want to misbehave, I'm not totally clear which way to
go. The output does drop to about 1.8V p-p when the oven is fully warm
which might be related to the original fault. I suppose the fact that
the fault has "gone away" eliminates the oven assembly or crystal itself
as the source of the problem.

Photos for comments or curiosity. The black stuff all over the PCBs is
the remains of the foam.

http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020364.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020367.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020368.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020369.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020370.jpg

On 26/07/12 20:49, Tom Miller wrote: > Pick up a few sticks of ChipQuik and mix it in with a good iron. Then, > you may do just what you say. It should melt below about 95°C. > A good hot air heat gun would most likely do the trick. Maybe use some > solder wick first to lower the amount of tin/lead solder. Then add the > chipquik. > > You might also just solder a tab on the bottom then you could clamp > the top in a leather jawed vise. Hit it with a hot air gun while > pulling on the base tab. > Well, a few exploratory attempts confirmed my initial suspicion that I don't have a soldering iron big enough for the job - the largest I have is 60W or so, and the hot air gun didn't touch it even set to 480deg C So, I reached for the next larger source of heat which is a small blowtorch I have, set a small flame and ran it round the whole seam then pulled the top off with a gloved hand. Things did get a bit warm but only for a short while. The first thing I encountered was some insulating foam - this was rather sticky. Not sure whether it had gone like that over time or due to my heating the whole thing a bit too much. On three sides the foam was separated from the case by what looks like some thin SRBP. This had blistered a bit so obviously things were a bit hot just there but the foam was much the same whether "protected" by the SRBP so I'm wondering whether this has just disintegrated over time. Pulling/washing the foam off reveals three PCBs and a further enclosed metal case with the crystal. A TIP21 bolted to this acts as the heating element. Originally there had been some cable ties anchoring the crystal enclosure but these were brittle - presumably from the heat of the oven. Hooking the unit up to 12V and an oscilloscope shows that it has survived the encounter with the blow torch and produces a nice 5MHz sine wave at 2.5V p-p (into 10Meg ohm). Irritatingly it doesn't really want to misbehave - presumably because whatever didn't like the heat is now cooler with the insulating foam removed. The inner metal case gets too hot to touch but the thermostat seems to be working because the current drawn drops from about 380mA to 240 or so. It should probably be lower but, again, without the usual amount of insulation it's likely to draw more keeping the oven up to temperature. So, as it doesn't want to misbehave, I'm not totally clear which way to go. The output does drop to about 1.8V p-p when the oven is fully warm which might be related to the original fault. I suppose the fact that the fault has "gone away" eliminates the oven assembly or crystal itself as the source of the problem. Photos for comments or curiosity. The black stuff all over the PCBs is the remains of the foam. http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020364.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020367.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020368.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020369.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020370.jpg

PS

paul swed

Fri, Jul 27, 2012 1:51 AM

OK
I get to add 10 cents here.
Yes indeed various foam stuff goes to heck after many years and can indeed
become this strange goo-ie stuff. Or it gets all flakey. Well the good news
is stuff seems to work and that can be frustrating. So I would suggest the
very deep dive and look at all of the solder joints. Variable caps
absolutely go to heck. Had to change one on an RB that fixed the exciter.
Good luck
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Paul Flinders paul@flinders.org wrote:

On 26/07/12 20:49, Tom Miller wrote:

Pick up a few sticks of ChipQuik and mix it in with a good iron. Then,
you may do just what you say. It should melt below about 95°C.
A good hot air heat gun would most likely do the trick. Maybe use some
solder wick first to lower the amount of tin/lead solder. Then add the
chipquik.

You might also just solder a tab on the bottom then you could clamp the
top in a leather jawed vise. Hit it with a hot air gun while pulling on the
base tab.

Well, a few exploratory attempts confirmed my initial suspicion that I
don't have a soldering iron big enough for the job - the largest I have is
60W or so, and the hot air gun didn't touch it even set to 480deg C

So, I reached for the next larger source of heat which is a small
blowtorch I have, set a small flame and ran it round the whole seam then
pulled the top off with a gloved hand. Things did get a bit warm but only
for a short while.

The first thing I encountered was some insulating foam - this was rather
sticky. Not sure whether it had gone like that over time or due to my
heating the whole thing a bit too much. On three sides the foam was
separated from the case by what looks like some thin SRBP. This had
blistered a bit so obviously things were a bit hot just there but the foam
was much the same whether "protected" by the SRBP so I'm wondering whether
this has just disintegrated over time.

Pulling/washing the foam off reveals three PCBs and a further enclosed
metal case with the crystal. A TIP21 bolted to this acts as the heating
element. Originally there had been some cable ties anchoring the crystal
enclosure but these were brittle - presumably from the heat of the oven.

Hooking the unit up to 12V and an oscilloscope shows that it has survived
the encounter with the blow torch and produces a nice 5MHz sine wave at
2.5V p-p (into 10Meg ohm). Irritatingly it doesn't really want to misbehave

presumably because whatever didn't like the heat is now cooler with the
insulating foam removed. The inner metal case gets too hot to touch but the
thermostat seems to be working because the current drawn drops from about
380mA to 240 or so. It should probably be lower but, again, without the
usual amount of insulation it's likely to draw more keeping the oven up to
temperature.

So, as it doesn't want to misbehave, I'm not totally clear which way to
go. The output does drop to about 1.8V p-p when the oven is fully warm
which might be related to the original fault. I suppose the fact that the
fault has "gone away" eliminates the oven assembly or crystal itself as the
source of the problem.

Photos for comments or curiosity. The black stuff all over the PCBs is the
remains of the foam.

http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/**images/P1020364.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020364.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/**images/P1020367.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020367.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/**images/P1020368.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020368.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/**images/P1020369.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020369.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/**images/P1020370.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020370.jpg

_____________**
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

OK I get to add 10 cents here. Yes indeed various foam stuff goes to heck after many years and can indeed become this strange goo-ie stuff. Or it gets all flakey. Well the good news is stuff seems to work and that can be frustrating. So I would suggest the very deep dive and look at all of the solder joints. Variable caps absolutely go to heck. Had to change one on an RB that fixed the exciter. Good luck Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Paul Flinders <paul@flinders.org> wrote: > On 26/07/12 20:49, Tom Miller wrote: > >> Pick up a few sticks of ChipQuik and mix it in with a good iron. Then, >> you may do just what you say. It should melt below about 95°C. >> A good hot air heat gun would most likely do the trick. Maybe use some >> solder wick first to lower the amount of tin/lead solder. Then add the >> chipquik. >> >> You might also just solder a tab on the bottom then you could clamp the >> top in a leather jawed vise. Hit it with a hot air gun while pulling on the >> base tab. >> >> > Well, a few exploratory attempts confirmed my initial suspicion that I > don't have a soldering iron big enough for the job - the largest I have is > 60W or so, and the hot air gun didn't touch it even set to 480deg C > > So, I reached for the next larger source of heat which is a small > blowtorch I have, set a small flame and ran it round the whole seam then > pulled the top off with a gloved hand. Things did get a bit warm but only > for a short while. > > The first thing I encountered was some insulating foam - this was rather > sticky. Not sure whether it had gone like that over time or due to my > heating the whole thing a bit too much. On three sides the foam was > separated from the case by what looks like some thin SRBP. This had > blistered a bit so obviously things were a bit hot just there but the foam > was much the same whether "protected" by the SRBP so I'm wondering whether > this has just disintegrated over time. > > Pulling/washing the foam off reveals three PCBs and a further enclosed > metal case with the crystal. A TIP21 bolted to this acts as the heating > element. Originally there had been some cable ties anchoring the crystal > enclosure but these were brittle - presumably from the heat of the oven. > > Hooking the unit up to 12V and an oscilloscope shows that it has survived > the encounter with the blow torch and produces a nice 5MHz sine wave at > 2.5V p-p (into 10Meg ohm). Irritatingly it doesn't really want to misbehave > - presumably because whatever didn't like the heat is now cooler with the > insulating foam removed. The inner metal case gets too hot to touch but the > thermostat seems to be working because the current drawn drops from about > 380mA to 240 or so. It should probably be lower but, again, without the > usual amount of insulation it's likely to draw more keeping the oven up to > temperature. > > So, as it doesn't want to misbehave, I'm not totally clear which way to > go. The output does drop to about 1.8V p-p when the oven is fully warm > which might be related to the original fault. I suppose the fact that the > fault has "gone away" eliminates the oven assembly or crystal itself as the > source of the problem. > > Photos for comments or curiosity. The black stuff all over the PCBs is the > remains of the foam. > > http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/**images/P1020364.jpg<http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020364.jpg> > http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/**images/P1020367.jpg<http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020367.jpg> > http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/**images/P1020368.jpg<http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020368.jpg> > http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/**images/P1020369.jpg<http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020369.jpg> > http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/**images/P1020370.jpg<http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020370.jpg> > > ______________________________**_________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > and follow the instructions there. >

RW

Ron Ward

Fri, Jul 27, 2012 1:54 AM

Hi:
I have been looking at the poor quality solder joints on the oscillator.
If you have a steady hand and a small tipped soldering with silver
baring (about 2% silver) solder, I would re-solder the connections. Many
of them do not look properly "wetted" and cold. Some of the heat from
removing the top may have re-soldered a problem connection.
Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Paul Flinders
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 2:59 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans

On 26/07/12 20:49, Tom Miller wrote:

Pick up a few sticks of ChipQuik and mix it in with a good iron. Then,

you may do just what you say. It should melt below about 95°C.
A good hot air heat gun would most likely do the trick. Maybe use some

solder wick first to lower the amount of tin/lead solder. Then add the

chipquik.

You might also just solder a tab on the bottom then you could clamp
the top in a leather jawed vise. Hit it with a hot air gun while
pulling on the base tab.

Well, a few exploratory attempts confirmed my initial suspicion that I
don't have a soldering iron big enough for the job - the largest I have
is 60W or so, and the hot air gun didn't touch it even set to 480deg C

So, I reached for the next larger source of heat which is a small
blowtorch I have, set a small flame and ran it round the whole seam then

pulled the top off with a gloved hand. Things did get a bit warm but
only for a short while.

The first thing I encountered was some insulating foam - this was rather

sticky. Not sure whether it had gone like that over time or due to my
heating the whole thing a bit too much. On three sides the foam was
separated from the case by what looks like some thin SRBP. This had
blistered a bit so obviously things were a bit hot just there but the
foam was much the same whether "protected" by the SRBP so I'm wondering
whether this has just disintegrated over time.

Pulling/washing the foam off reveals three PCBs and a further enclosed
metal case with the crystal. A TIP21 bolted to this acts as the heating
element. Originally there had been some cable ties anchoring the crystal

enclosure but these were brittle - presumably from the heat of the oven.

Hooking the unit up to 12V and an oscilloscope shows that it has
survived the encounter with the blow torch and produces a nice 5MHz sine

wave at 2.5V p-p (into 10Meg ohm). Irritatingly it doesn't really want
to misbehave - presumably because whatever didn't like the heat is now
cooler with the insulating foam removed. The inner metal case gets too
hot to touch but the thermostat seems to be working because the current
drawn drops from about 380mA to 240 or so. It should probably be lower
but, again, without the usual amount of insulation it's likely to draw
more keeping the oven up to temperature.

So, as it doesn't want to misbehave, I'm not totally clear which way to
go. The output does drop to about 1.8V p-p when the oven is fully warm
which might be related to the original fault. I suppose the fact that
the fault has "gone away" eliminates the oven assembly or crystal itself

as the source of the problem.

Photos for comments or curiosity. The black stuff all over the PCBs is
the remains of the foam.

http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020364.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020367.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020368.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020369.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020370.jpg

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi: I have been looking at the poor quality solder joints on the oscillator. If you have a steady hand and a small tipped soldering with silver baring (about 2% silver) solder, I would re-solder the connections. Many of them do not look properly "wetted" and cold. Some of the heat from removing the top may have re-soldered a problem connection. Ron -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Paul Flinders Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 2:59 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans On 26/07/12 20:49, Tom Miller wrote: > Pick up a few sticks of ChipQuik and mix it in with a good iron. Then, > you may do just what you say. It should melt below about 95°C. > A good hot air heat gun would most likely do the trick. Maybe use some > solder wick first to lower the amount of tin/lead solder. Then add the > chipquik. > > You might also just solder a tab on the bottom then you could clamp > the top in a leather jawed vise. Hit it with a hot air gun while > pulling on the base tab. > Well, a few exploratory attempts confirmed my initial suspicion that I don't have a soldering iron big enough for the job - the largest I have is 60W or so, and the hot air gun didn't touch it even set to 480deg C So, I reached for the next larger source of heat which is a small blowtorch I have, set a small flame and ran it round the whole seam then pulled the top off with a gloved hand. Things did get a bit warm but only for a short while. The first thing I encountered was some insulating foam - this was rather sticky. Not sure whether it had gone like that over time or due to my heating the whole thing a bit too much. On three sides the foam was separated from the case by what looks like some thin SRBP. This had blistered a bit so obviously things were a bit hot just there but the foam was much the same whether "protected" by the SRBP so I'm wondering whether this has just disintegrated over time. Pulling/washing the foam off reveals three PCBs and a further enclosed metal case with the crystal. A TIP21 bolted to this acts as the heating element. Originally there had been some cable ties anchoring the crystal enclosure but these were brittle - presumably from the heat of the oven. Hooking the unit up to 12V and an oscilloscope shows that it has survived the encounter with the blow torch and produces a nice 5MHz sine wave at 2.5V p-p (into 10Meg ohm). Irritatingly it doesn't really want to misbehave - presumably because whatever didn't like the heat is now cooler with the insulating foam removed. The inner metal case gets too hot to touch but the thermostat seems to be working because the current drawn drops from about 380mA to 240 or so. It should probably be lower but, again, without the usual amount of insulation it's likely to draw more keeping the oven up to temperature. So, as it doesn't want to misbehave, I'm not totally clear which way to go. The output does drop to about 1.8V p-p when the oven is fully warm which might be related to the original fault. I suppose the fact that the fault has "gone away" eliminates the oven assembly or crystal itself as the source of the problem. Photos for comments or curiosity. The black stuff all over the PCBs is the remains of the foam. http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020364.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020367.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020368.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020369.jpg http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1020370.jpg _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

TM

Tom Miller

Fri, Jul 27, 2012 2:17 AM

I agree with Ron. Clean the board up real good then do an inspection. With a
microscope if you can get your hands on one. Look for cracked SMT parts. The
high heat from the oven could very well stress the parts causing a failure.
Flux the board up and hit all the connections with a small iron. When you
melt the solder on each end of a part, if one is broken, it will then show
up.

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Ward" n6idlron@comcast.net
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo- Opening Solder sealed cans