I have no doubt there are a few scruffy liveaboards and in nearly every
anchorage there are abandoned boats , but you are painting with a very broad
brush.
We all don't live on yachts , but neither are we all scruffy !
Most boaters have money to spend . The towns that allow anchoring , will
usually get that anchorage money back in taxes spent in their town. Florida
knows this and struck down the local laws against anchoring.
Joanne and I don't officially live aboard yet , but soon will . We are
retiring on a shoestring budget , but will still have money for supplies.
The town that allows us to anchor for free will get their moneys worth out
of us when we go to town to buy supplies .
Of course , even if I might be a little scruffy looking , the money will
still be good.
In a message dated 3/1/2010 3:21:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
valhalla360@yahoo.com writes:
Again this points to the need to focus on the real problem: do not do silly
things that chase away people who bring money into the community,
especially
now when property taxes are plumeting in south florida and other areas.
The discussion was about cruisers passing thru who anchor out most of the
time
and the advantages/disadvantages of communities providing a free dock so
they
can come in to reprovision and take in the community, including restaurants
and tourist attractions. Most communities aren't chasing away boats that
pay
for marina space.
I would argue even in marinas permanent liveaboards on average tend to
have scruffier boats with more clutter, but marinas usually keep it
reasonably
in check as it will drive away customers if it gets too bad. Marina boaters
weren't being discussed (why would you pay for a slip and then go tie up to
the free dock?). If we are talking about anchored out liveaboards, I'll
stand
by the steriotype all day long.
It's not a question of is my way better than yours. The problem is these
communities see the derelick boats anchored out with scruffy liveaboards
and
want to get rid of them mostly because they are an eye sore and only
secondarily because they don't add much to the local economy. If we
cruisers
don't differentiate ourselves, we become the proverbial baby thown out with
the bathwater.
Some suggestions:
- Legally define a boat that is incapable of locamotion and anchored out
for
more than a week as derelict (provides reasonable exceptions for
breakdowns).
Allow the local authorities to require a demonstation that anchored boats
are
capable of self motivation if they anchor for more than a week. (presumably
any boat anchored for less than a week was capable of traving or it
couldn't
have gotten to the anchorage and it avoids hassling people who breakdown
but
are getting it fixed in a timely manner).
- Check the boats that are anchored more than a week to verify the
sewage disposal rules are being followed. No need for new laws.
- Is there a cost for enforcement? Yes, but not as much as it may appear.
Once most of the problem is under control, it's just a matter of stopping
by
the stray boat that stays a little longer than normal. This can be a task
for
officers when they are on the water but not much is going on. A key part of
this is to teach the officers they are ambasadors to the community and can
leave visitors with a warm fuzzy feeling for the place or that the place is
run by water nazi's. (In Fort Myers, we had a lovely non-confrontational
discussion with an officer as we were getting set up on one of the moorings
and he was doing a safety check as a result we look forward to returning).
Ultimately these communities have no obligation to provide a free dock for
cruisers and we shouldn't begrudge them that right. Letting them know what
the
consequences are is quite reasonable. On the same token, they shouldn't
begrudge cruisers when they blast thru to get to more cruiser friendly
areas.
Mike & Tammy
Valhalla II
Snip:
Liveaboards: The boats tend to be older, often in disrepair, they anchor
in
one location for months on end. They rarely if ever go to pump out stations
or offshore to dump. >They tend to be scruffy looking and salt crusted. So
they tend to clutter up the view while spending very little money.
While some may actually be this way, this is simply a stereotype. If you
look around you will find that most live aboards indeed maintain their
homes
in good condition. Most decent marinas would not let them even live aboard
if they lived this way
Live aboard boaters often choose their lifestyle to take advantage of
checking out of responsibility for local taxes.
Living aboard does not get you out of local taxes. We paid over $10,000 a
year in New England just for dockage and I would imagine that at least a
portion went to property tax. We also paid state income tax (and you know
that in Mass., that was considerable), license tags, sales tax, federal
income tax, school tax and supported the local economy in every way a home
owner does. We did not pay the extremely high winter fuel costs, so they
lost our tax money there - It only takes about 300 gallons of diesel a
winter to heat Caper.
My son is circumnavigating (currently in Bali) and he pays a harbor tax in
the countries and the amount depends on how long he stays in the port. I
will admit his boat is in better traveling condition than Caper - and it
needs to be. But frankly, it's is quite a sight with its bright orange
hull
and tanbark sails.
We have lived aboard and not moved the boat (until we could finish work
responsibilities get it ready to travel) and we have lived as long term
cruisers, so there is not a "mine's better than yours" mind set. I just
don't like to see this sort of generalization passed as fact.
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop
To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to:
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/great-loop
I have no doubt there are a few scruffy liveaboards and in nearly every
anchorage there are abandoned boats , but you are painting with a very broad
brush.
We all don't live on yachts , but neither are we all scruffy !
Most boaters have money to spend . The towns that allow anchoring , will
usually get that anchorage money back in taxes spent in their town. Florida
knows this and struck down the local laws against anchoring.
Joanne and I don't officially live aboard yet , but soon will . We are
retiring on a shoestring budget , but will still have money for supplies.
The town that allows us to anchor for free will get their moneys worth out
of us when we go to town to buy supplies .
Of course , even if I might be a little scruffy looking , the money will
still be good.
In a message dated 3/1/2010 3:21:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
valhalla360@yahoo.com writes:
Again this points to the need to focus on the real problem: do not do silly
things that chase away people who bring money into the community,
especially
now when property taxes are plumeting in south florida and other areas.
The discussion was about cruisers passing thru who anchor out most of the
time
and the advantages/disadvantages of communities providing a free dock so
they
can come in to reprovision and take in the community, including restaurants
and tourist attractions. Most communities aren't chasing away boats that
pay
for marina space.
I would argue even in marinas permanent liveaboards on average tend to
have scruffier boats with more clutter, but marinas usually keep it
reasonably
in check as it will drive away customers if it gets too bad. Marina boaters
weren't being discussed (why would you pay for a slip and then go tie up to
the free dock?). If we are talking about anchored out liveaboards, I'll
stand
by the steriotype all day long.
It's not a question of is my way better than yours. The problem is these
communities see the derelick boats anchored out with scruffy liveaboards
and
want to get rid of them mostly because they are an eye sore and only
secondarily because they don't add much to the local economy. If we
cruisers
don't differentiate ourselves, we become the proverbial baby thown out with
the bathwater.
Some suggestions:
- Legally define a boat that is incapable of locamotion and anchored out
for
more than a week as derelict (provides reasonable exceptions for
breakdowns).
Allow the local authorities to require a demonstation that anchored boats
are
capable of self motivation if they anchor for more than a week. (presumably
any boat anchored for less than a week was capable of traving or it
couldn't
have gotten to the anchorage and it avoids hassling people who breakdown
but
are getting it fixed in a timely manner).
- Check the boats that are anchored more than a week to verify the
sewage disposal rules are being followed. No need for new laws.
- Is there a cost for enforcement? Yes, but not as much as it may appear.
Once most of the problem is under control, it's just a matter of stopping
by
the stray boat that stays a little longer than normal. This can be a task
for
officers when they are on the water but not much is going on. A key part of
this is to teach the officers they are ambasadors to the community and can
leave visitors with a warm fuzzy feeling for the place or that the place is
run by water nazi's. (In Fort Myers, we had a lovely non-confrontational
discussion with an officer as we were getting set up on one of the moorings
and he was doing a safety check as a result we look forward to returning).
Ultimately these communities have no obligation to provide a free dock for
cruisers and we shouldn't begrudge them that right. Letting them know what
the
consequences are is quite reasonable. On the same token, they shouldn't
begrudge cruisers when they blast thru to get to more cruiser friendly
areas.
Mike & Tammy
Valhalla II
Snip:
>Liveaboards: The boats tend to be older, often in disrepair, they anchor
in
one location for months on end. They rarely if ever go to pump out stations
or offshore to dump. >They tend to be scruffy looking and salt crusted. So
they tend to clutter up the view while spending very little money.
While some may actually be this way, this is simply a stereotype. If you
look around you will find that most live aboards indeed maintain their
homes
in good condition. Most decent marinas would not let them even live aboard
if they lived this way
>>Live aboard boaters often choose their lifestyle to take advantage of
checking out of responsibility for local taxes.
Living aboard does not get you out of local taxes. We paid over $10,000 a
year in New England just for dockage and I would imagine that at least a
portion went to property tax. We also paid state income tax (and you know
that in Mass., that was considerable), license tags, sales tax, federal
income tax, school tax and supported the local economy in every way a home
owner does. We did not pay the extremely high winter fuel costs, so they
lost our tax money there - It only takes about 300 gallons of diesel a
winter to heat Caper.
My son is circumnavigating (currently in Bali) and he pays a harbor tax in
the countries and the amount depends on how long he stays in the port. I
will admit his boat is in better traveling condition than Caper - and it
needs to be. But frankly, it's is quite a sight with its bright orange
hull
and tanbark sails.
We have lived aboard and not moved the boat (until we could finish work
responsibilities get it ready to travel) and we have lived as long term
cruisers, so there is not a "mine's better than yours" mind set. I just
don't like to see this sort of generalization passed as fact.
_______________________________________________
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop
To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to:
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/great-loop