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Re: GL: Venice Free Dock to Close

G
Gypsy5262@aol.com
Thu, Apr 22, 2010 4:05 PM

I have no doubt there are a few scruffy liveaboards and in nearly every
anchorage there are abandoned boats , but you are painting with a very broad
brush.

We all don't live on yachts , but neither are we all scruffy !

Most boaters have money to spend . The towns that allow anchoring , will
usually get that anchorage money back in taxes spent in their town.  Florida
knows this and struck down the local laws against anchoring.

Joanne and I don't officially live aboard yet , but soon will . We are
retiring on a shoestring budget , but will still have money for  supplies.
The town that allows us to anchor for free will get their moneys worth out
of us when we go to town to buy supplies .
Of course , even if I might be a little scruffy looking , the  money will
still be good.

In a message dated 3/1/2010 3:21:30 P.M. Central Daylight  Time,
valhalla360@yahoo.com writes:

Again this points to the need to focus on the real problem:  do not do silly
things that chase away people who bring money into the  community,
especially
now when property taxes are plumeting in south  florida and other areas.

The discussion was about cruisers passing thru  who anchor out most of the
time
and the advantages/disadvantages of  communities providing a free dock so
they
can come in to reprovision and  take in the community, including restaurants
and tourist attractions. Most  communities aren't chasing away boats that
pay
for marina space.

I  would argue even in marinas permanent liveaboards on average tend to
have  scruffier boats with more clutter, but marinas usually keep it
reasonably
in check as it will drive away customers if it gets too bad.  Marina boaters
weren't being discussed (why would you pay for a slip and  then go tie up to
the free dock?). If we are talking about anchored out  liveaboards, I'll
stand
by the steriotype all day long.

It's not a  question of is my way better than yours. The problem is these
communities  see the derelick boats anchored out with scruffy liveaboards
and
want to  get rid of them mostly because they are an eye sore and only
secondarily  because they don't add much to the local economy. If we
cruisers
don't  differentiate ourselves, we become the proverbial baby thown out with
the  bathwater.

Some suggestions:

  • Legally define a boat that is  incapable of locamotion and anchored out
    for
    more than a week as derelict  (provides reasonable exceptions for
    breakdowns).
    Allow the local  authorities to require a demonstation that anchored boats
    are
    capable of  self motivation if they anchor for more than a week. (presumably
    any boat  anchored for less than a week was capable of traving or it
    couldn't
    have  gotten to the anchorage and it avoids hassling people who breakdown
    but
    are  getting it fixed in a timely manner).
  • Check the boats that are anchored  more than a week to verify the
    sewage disposal rules are being followed. No  need for new laws.
  • Is there a cost for enforcement? Yes, but not as much  as it may appear.
    Once most of the problem is under control, it's just a  matter of stopping
    by
    the stray boat that stays a little longer than  normal. This can be a task
    for
    officers when they are on the water but not  much is going on. A key part of
    this is to teach the officers they are  ambasadors to the community and can
    leave visitors with a warm fuzzy  feeling for the place or that the place is
    run by water nazi's. (In Fort  Myers, we had a lovely non-confrontational
    discussion with an officer as we  were getting set up on one of the moorings
    and he was doing a safety check  as a result we look forward to returning).

Ultimately these communities  have no obligation to provide a free dock for
cruisers and we shouldn't  begrudge them that right. Letting them know what
the
consequences are is  quite reasonable. On the same token, they shouldn't
begrudge cruisers when  they blast thru to get to more cruiser friendly
areas.

Mike &  Tammy
Valhalla II

Snip:

Liveaboards: The boats tend to be  older, often in disrepair, they anchor

in
one location for months on end.  They rarely if ever go to pump out stations
or offshore to dump. >They  tend to be scruffy looking and salt crusted. So
they tend to clutter up the  view while spending very little money.

While some may actually be this  way, this is simply a stereotype.  If you
look around you will find  that most live aboards indeed maintain their
homes
in good condition.  Most decent marinas would not let them even live aboard
if they lived this  way

Live aboard boaters often choose their lifestyle to take  advantage of

checking out of responsibility for local taxes.

Living  aboard does not get you out of local taxes.  We paid over $10,000  a
year in New England just for dockage and I would imagine that at least  a
portion went to property tax.  We also paid state income tax (and  you know
that in Mass., that was considerable), license tags, sales tax,  federal
income tax, school tax and supported the local economy in every way  a home
owner does.  We did not pay the extremely high winter fuel  costs, so they
lost our tax money there - It only takes about 300 gallons  of diesel a
winter to heat Caper.

My son is circumnavigating  (currently in Bali) and he pays a harbor tax in
the countries and the  amount depends on how long he stays in the port.  I
will admit his  boat is in better traveling condition than Caper - and it
needs to  be.  But frankly, it's is quite a sight with its bright orange
hull
and tanbark sails.

We have lived aboard and not moved the boat  (until we could finish work
responsibilities get it ready to travel) and we  have lived as long term
cruisers, so there is not a "mine's better than  yours" mind set.  I just
don't like to see this sort of generalization  passed as  fact.


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I have no doubt there are a few scruffy liveaboards and in nearly every anchorage there are abandoned boats , but you are painting with a very broad brush. We all don't live on yachts , but neither are we all scruffy ! Most boaters have money to spend . The towns that allow anchoring , will usually get that anchorage money back in taxes spent in their town. Florida knows this and struck down the local laws against anchoring. Joanne and I don't officially live aboard yet , but soon will . We are retiring on a shoestring budget , but will still have money for supplies. The town that allows us to anchor for free will get their moneys worth out of us when we go to town to buy supplies . Of course , even if I might be a little scruffy looking , the money will still be good. In a message dated 3/1/2010 3:21:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, valhalla360@yahoo.com writes: Again this points to the need to focus on the real problem: do not do silly things that chase away people who bring money into the community, especially now when property taxes are plumeting in south florida and other areas. The discussion was about cruisers passing thru who anchor out most of the time and the advantages/disadvantages of communities providing a free dock so they can come in to reprovision and take in the community, including restaurants and tourist attractions. Most communities aren't chasing away boats that pay for marina space. I would argue even in marinas permanent liveaboards on average tend to have scruffier boats with more clutter, but marinas usually keep it reasonably in check as it will drive away customers if it gets too bad. Marina boaters weren't being discussed (why would you pay for a slip and then go tie up to the free dock?). If we are talking about anchored out liveaboards, I'll stand by the steriotype all day long. It's not a question of is my way better than yours. The problem is these communities see the derelick boats anchored out with scruffy liveaboards and want to get rid of them mostly because they are an eye sore and only secondarily because they don't add much to the local economy. If we cruisers don't differentiate ourselves, we become the proverbial baby thown out with the bathwater. Some suggestions: - Legally define a boat that is incapable of locamotion and anchored out for more than a week as derelict (provides reasonable exceptions for breakdowns). Allow the local authorities to require a demonstation that anchored boats are capable of self motivation if they anchor for more than a week. (presumably any boat anchored for less than a week was capable of traving or it couldn't have gotten to the anchorage and it avoids hassling people who breakdown but are getting it fixed in a timely manner). - Check the boats that are anchored more than a week to verify the sewage disposal rules are being followed. No need for new laws. - Is there a cost for enforcement? Yes, but not as much as it may appear. Once most of the problem is under control, it's just a matter of stopping by the stray boat that stays a little longer than normal. This can be a task for officers when they are on the water but not much is going on. A key part of this is to teach the officers they are ambasadors to the community and can leave visitors with a warm fuzzy feeling for the place or that the place is run by water nazi's. (In Fort Myers, we had a lovely non-confrontational discussion with an officer as we were getting set up on one of the moorings and he was doing a safety check as a result we look forward to returning). Ultimately these communities have no obligation to provide a free dock for cruisers and we shouldn't begrudge them that right. Letting them know what the consequences are is quite reasonable. On the same token, they shouldn't begrudge cruisers when they blast thru to get to more cruiser friendly areas. Mike & Tammy Valhalla II Snip: >Liveaboards: The boats tend to be older, often in disrepair, they anchor in one location for months on end. They rarely if ever go to pump out stations or offshore to dump. >They tend to be scruffy looking and salt crusted. So they tend to clutter up the view while spending very little money. While some may actually be this way, this is simply a stereotype. If you look around you will find that most live aboards indeed maintain their homes in good condition. Most decent marinas would not let them even live aboard if they lived this way >>Live aboard boaters often choose their lifestyle to take advantage of checking out of responsibility for local taxes. Living aboard does not get you out of local taxes. We paid over $10,000 a year in New England just for dockage and I would imagine that at least a portion went to property tax. We also paid state income tax (and you know that in Mass., that was considerable), license tags, sales tax, federal income tax, school tax and supported the local economy in every way a home owner does. We did not pay the extremely high winter fuel costs, so they lost our tax money there - It only takes about 300 gallons of diesel a winter to heat Caper. My son is circumnavigating (currently in Bali) and he pays a harbor tax in the countries and the amount depends on how long he stays in the port. I will admit his boat is in better traveling condition than Caper - and it needs to be. But frankly, it's is quite a sight with its bright orange hull and tanbark sails. We have lived aboard and not moved the boat (until we could finish work responsibilities get it ready to travel) and we have lived as long term cruisers, so there is not a "mine's better than yours" mind set. I just don't like to see this sort of generalization passed as fact. _______________________________________________ http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/great-loop
TS
Ted Stehle
Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:44 PM

Without getting into the political issues of why or why not cruisers cannot
overnight,  the facts are the Venice "Free Dock" is not closing. Overnight
docking is no longer permitted. You are free to anchor out or take a
mooring. The dock is still available for daytime use.

Ted Stehle, Editor
Waterway Guide/Skipper Bob Publications
www.waterwayguide.com
www.skipperbob.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Gypsy5262@aol.com
To: great-loop@lists.samurai.com
Cc: Joanne_Dean@colonialbank.com
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: GL: Venice Free Dock to Close

I have no doubt there are a few scruffy liveaboards and in nearly every
anchorage there are abandoned boats , but you are painting with a very
broad
brush.

Without getting into the political issues of why or why not cruisers cannot overnight, the facts are the Venice "Free Dock" is not closing. Overnight docking is no longer permitted. You are free to anchor out or take a mooring. The dock is still available for daytime use. Ted Stehle, Editor Waterway Guide/Skipper Bob Publications www.waterwayguide.com www.skipperbob.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gypsy5262@aol.com> To: <great-loop@lists.samurai.com> Cc: <Joanne_Dean@colonialbank.com> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 12:05 PM Subject: Re: GL: Venice Free Dock to Close >I have no doubt there are a few scruffy liveaboards and in nearly every > anchorage there are abandoned boats , but you are painting with a very > broad > brush.