Use a multimeter to see if the DB25 pin 2 is -12V, if so you have a
standard RS232 serial port. Then connect to it, use a USB-RS232 interface
if necessary, and type SYST:STAT?
you will see the status page out of the Z3805 (use 9600,N,8,1 for the
serial settings).

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 4:18 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1xus@amsat.org wrote:

On the unit I bought from fluke.l, with a "Samsung" label, there are two
serial ports.  The bottom one is the control port and is definitely
RS-232.  The top port has only three wires (TXD, RXD, SG) and I think is
used for some sort of monitoring.

I've been using Ulrich's "z38xx" software to monitor it with good success.

John

Edgardo Molina said the following on 10/13/2012 10:18 PM:

Hi

I've been using Ulrich's software on my 3805's as well.

Trimble and HP took different approaches on their GPSDO's. Trimble lets you get into things and fiddle around. HP is much more a black box. I have never seen anything that lets you "fiddle' with one of the HP units. Things like loop gain, time constant, DAC settings that are configurable on the Trimble are not accessible on the HP. HP only lets you do the satellite mask and re-survey sort of stuff. You can monitor status, you just can't do much about it...

Bob

On Oct 14, 2012, at 9:23 AM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:

Dear Azelio,

Thank you. I left the receivers running since yesterday and they are still solid lock state. I will measure pin 2 as you kindly stated. I will come back with the results. Thank you for pointing out this test. You are always willing to help!

Kind regards,

Edgardo Molina
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On Oct 14, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Azelio Boriani azelio.boriani@screen.it wrote:

Dear John,

Very interesting. I haven't had the time to compare the Samsung branded units with the typical HP units. Mine is the later. It only has one communications port, plus 2x10 MHz and 2x 1PPS. As soon as I am done with the late family breakfast I will do some testing and let you know what I find.

How does the oscillators from the Samsung units compare to the HP units? Are the Samsung units superior in any sense? Both have the same GPS receiver/number of channels?

Thank you for opening my curiosity regarding this GPSDO model.

Best regards!

Edgardo Molina
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On Oct 14, 2012, at 8:23 AM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:

Dear Bob,

I agree. I have been playing around with two TBolts for my thesis work and they are just great. HP as some circles have stated, are plug and forget GPSDOs. Still I love the looks, construction and the fact that they match with the rest of the HP equipment here in the lab.

As I continue working on both the HP and the TBolt units, I will try to share my experiences, despite they will not be up to the level some folks here have achieved. I am moving in small steps but gaining experience and learning in the process. Always with a good attitude and looking to have some fun during the process.

Thank you!

Edgardo Molina
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On Oct 14, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:

Hi Edgardo --

I don't know a lot about the Z3805 variations other than what's on
fluke.l's site, which can be a bit confusing.  All were made by (for)
HP/Agilent/Symmetricom, but there were apparently at least two
"official" variations.

Mine is the Samsung version, which has the same 10811A double oven as
the Z3801, and a 16 channel Furuno GPS, 2 x 10 MHz and 2 x 1 PPS, and
dual comm ports.  It's still aging in, but it seems to perform about the
same as my older Z3801A, with stability below 1e12 from 1 second on out.

There's another telco model that has an MTI 260 oscillator, that I think
was manufactured in Korea but does not have the Samsung logo on the
front.  I don't know much about that one.

Then there's the one that's boxed up like a 58503A bench unit, which I
think is not directly from HP/Agilent/Symmetricom, but is a telco unit
repackaged by someone in China.  I'm not sure what's in there.  One of
the ones on eBay right now says that it has a 6 channel receiver, and
was "upgraded by us which the feature is the same as 58503A".  Good luck
figuring out what's in that one...  (by the way, none of the current
listings are from fluke.l)

John

Edgardo Molina said the following on 10/14/2012 12:29 PM:

Dear John,

Thank you for your explanation on the Z3805A models. Mine is identical to the 58305A. Same case, same form factor, same rubber guard ends. HP logos and design all around. I haven't opened them yet. They still have calibration seals on top of the screw head case. As I find time to do it. I will let you know about the inner workings.

I will take a look at the current online offerings to also see if they match my units. Thanks again.

Regards,

Edgardo Molina
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On Oct 14, 2012, at 12:24 PM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:

Dear John,

I just opened one box. Here is what I found inside:

HP-10811-60165 double oven oscillator
Furuno 16 Ch GPS receiver

Now I will check if communications port is either RS-232 or RS-422 as per Azelio advise. Once done, I will try Chuck's monitoring and command software.

My wife and kids are getting impatient. Ringing my lab's doorbell. Lunch time! We're going some sushi place.

The afternoon is mine to continue testing and finishing my thesis translation. I am fortunate that tomorrow Dr. Levine is giving some advise on it at CENAM.

Until then…

Cheers!

Edgardo Molina
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On Oct 14, 2012, at 12:24 PM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:

John,

I believe Edgardo bought the reprogrammed 58503A unit (was a Z3805A before) from Ebay.

I have the same units recently purchased from yinxhu(sp?) on Ebay and Edgardo just confirmed these are indeed 16 channel units with true 10811 Docxos.

Explains why they work so great..

Edgardo, I use GPSCon with these, and mine are all Rs232..

Mine achieve performance in the xE-013 and noise below -162dBc (Thunderbolt eat your heart out :). I believe there is no better GPSDO out there presently, much less available for sale and at those prices. PN at 1Hz is better than -105dBc..

I regularly get below 1us predicted drift as shown by the syst:stat? command.

Bye,
Said

On Oct 14, 2012, at 10:24, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:

Dear Said,

Thank you. It seems I ended up buying the same units and from the same provider. I recall you mentioning before I got mine about the availability of those models in the Asia-Pacific region. That explains clearly the capabilities and quality of the units. I just ran the tests Azelio suggested and in fact it is an RS-232 port. Thank you also for confirming the ports are RS-232 from your side. Now I am connecting one of the receivers to the PC and start playing around with it.

Derived question: Will I get better GPSDO performance if I use a 58503A receiver? Or do you think our units match those 58503A GPSDOs out there?

Again, thanks to everybody who helped me to figure out about my receivers and their inner workings. As always, you all made my day.

Best regards,

Edgardo Molina
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On Oct 14, 2012, at 5:15 PM, Said Jackson saidjack@aol.com wrote:

Just cuious, of the two 58503A versions that yixunhk sells (Z3801A and
Z3805A), which one has the better performance? I see that the Z3805A
version has two 10 MHz outputs and one PPS.

Joe Gray
W5JG

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Said Jackson saidjack@aol.com wrote:

I do own a Z3805 WITH the Samsung logo on the front AND WITH a MTI 260 inside.

Regards
Ulrich Bangert

On 10/14/2012 10:43 PM, Ulrich Bangert wrote:

Me too -- same description of Z3805. For some reason the output of that
3805 seems a bit cleaner (in PN) than my Z3816A which also has an MTI
260 oscillator.

BTW, Ulrich, I use your software as the main monitor for both. Thanks
for all your work!

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 03:15:53PM -0700, Said Jackson wrote:

I just bought one from yinuxhk based on your comments last

weekend and it arrived today.

Has one RS-232 port and two 10 MHz and two PPS.  XLR 24 volt

power connector. Made in Korea, marked HP Z3805A std.

In very good shape. Seems like almost new old stock.  HP DOCXO.

Seems rather old based on serial number, serial is 3625Axxxxx

which would be 1996 if IIRC.

I'm pretty sure what Edgardo bought exactly.

Are yours this exact version and what age are they (from the

serial number) ?

--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."

Dear David,

Yes, I bought the same unit as you. I will come back to you tomorrow with some serial number information.

I am starting to think my serial cable is bad. I can't connect to any of my two units! Both of them have been locked to GPS signals perfectly. Shame on me… I just returned from CENAM and I am very, very tired. If you are able to connect to your unit, please advise. None of the combinations I got in past emails worked. It must be cable or serial port, or blame it on the operator. I will update this thread with more information tomorrow.

I will be getting new toys to play around during the weekend. I will comment in a separate thread as soon as they are delivered to me. I wish to correspond with someone having the same equipment nowadays ; )

Thanks.

Best regards and good night!

Edgardo Molina
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On Oct 17, 2012, at 10:33 PM, "David I. Emery" die@dieconsulting.com wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:47:30AM -0500, Edgardo Molina wrote:

I found mine is a DTE with TXD on pin 2... RXD on pin 3.

Seems to like 9600,8,n,1

Have it working under a XP virtual machine on this laptop with

the K8CU GPS receiver control program.  Seems to work OK...
no stats on performance yet.

Mine has a Motorola 6 channel GPS rx in it - not a Furuno 16

channel.

In the same shipment  I also ordered one of the Samsung branded

Symmetricom GPSes that does have the Furuno 16 channel receiver.
K8CU GPSCON reports it has a GT-80 and shows 16 channels.  It has
a Symmetricom OCXO, looks MTIish... but not MTI.  Mounted on a
doubler board - outputs 10 MHz.  Looking inside the receiver
is a Furuno GT8031F.

I'm sort of wondering if I could upgrade the GPS in my close to

NOS HP z3805 box (would obviously require using the Samsung version of
the firmware) from the Samsung box... not clear how much (other than
TRIAM and WAAS) that might buy me or whether it would be worth it.

Though I am sure you know all this, you certainly should be able

to find the port pins with a DVM or scope - mine outputs about -8 volts
on TXD and RXD floats about 0.2 volts positive.  I did find I need a
null modem cable to connect it up to a regular serial port (for this
test a keyspan HS-19 USB serial port).

I'm not exactly sure what Said Jackson has and sings the praises

of.  Fluke.l has been selling a few Samsungs and has one advertised that
I guess is similar to mine but with an explicit MTI 260.

I presume Said has units with the 10811-60165 rather than the

MTI-260... I'm curious which oscillator  he is finding those stability
and phase noise specs on - I'm looking to upgrade the reference to some
microwave LO chains and would like a nice box with that performance.

I'm not sure when he bought his or what age they are. 

Apparently some of the  HP branked z3805s must have had the Furuno
receiver module.

There is also tommy_chou who has some Samsung z8505As with

the 10811 DOCXO... not sure what GPS these have.

Appear to be 3 sellers with similar ex-Korea CDMA stuff...

tommy_chou,  our familiar fluke.1 and yixunhk.

I have found the obvious pilot error issues with things like

hyperterminal - the box should respond to a *CLS command with scpi > and
to an *IDN? command with the serial number.  I did find (silly me) that
hyperterminal  defaults to DCD flow control on and you have to say no
flow control before it will see anything from the ports on the box. This
is because DCD comes out off with the Null modem cable I was using.

Basic stuff.

--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."

Hi Bob,

I'm glad you asked. True, the Trimble TSIP binary command set lets you fiddle and the HP SCPI command set is much easier to use but more limited by comparison. But there's also a rich under-the-hood layer on the HP units. Spend some time with this file and you'll see what I mean:
http://leapsecond.com/museum/z3801a/z3801a-bin.txt
I explored the functionality in some detail during my hp GPSDO DAC dither investigation some years ago. Contact me offline.

/tvb

Tom,

It looks like they have a pForth interpreter running in there under
PSOS: http://code.google.com/p/pforth/. Is there a mechanism to switch
from SCPI to the Forth interpreter?

david