Can Anyone Help Me Get PPS Into This Mini PC?
I recently purchased one of these mini PCs to be used as my router.
https://cwwk.net/products/cwwk-x86-p5-super-mini-router-12th-gen-intel-n100-ddr5-4800mhz-firewall-pc-2x-i226-v-2-5g-lan-fanless-mini-pc?variant=44732374352104
I am going to be running the new 64-bit Intel release of the excellent
"Tomato" router firmwareTomato64 https://tomato64.org/, which can be
installed either "bare-metal" or as a virtual machine. I am going the
virtual machine route using proxmox v8.1.3. The tiny PC idles at about 9
W and maxes out around 18 W, and has considerably more power than I need
for my routing purposes. So, I also put my FreePBX on a separate virtual
machine, also located on this mini PC. But that is probably not very
interesting to anyone here, nor is it really part of my question.
Proxmox is a Linux based OS which is designed for the express purpose of
running virtual machines. I suspect many of you on this mailing list may
already be using it yourself. I am currently running my own stratum one
NTP server on a Raspberry Pi 3 which is getting its PPS from a GPSDO.
well, proxmox comes with chrony already installed, and I'm sure I could
change it over to ntpd if I wished to do so. If any of you follow my
first link, you will see the little mini PC has a header for GPIO. It is
a 2x5 header with I believe a 2 mm pitch. According to the listing,
there are four input and four output pins. I assume the other two pins
are either both grounds or both positive, not really sure.
Now comes my question. Can any of you tell me how to use these GPIO
pins? I can find tons of information very easily on setting this thing
up as a router, NAS, or as a desktop computer. I have not been able to
find a single post related to those GPIO pins. I can't find the pin out,
can't find out what voltage they are supposed to work at, nor any
information about communicating with them in Linux. I queried the
system, hoping I could look up the motherboard online, and this is what
I got:
root@Proxmox:~# dmidecode -t 2
dmidecode 3.4
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 3.6.0 present.
SMBIOS implementations newer than version 3.5.0 are not
fully supported by this version of dmidecode.
Handle 0x0002, DMI type 2, 15 bytes
Base Board Information
Manufacturer: Default string
Product Name: Default string
Version: Default string
Serial Number: Default string
Asset Tag: Default string
Features:
Board is a hosting board
Board is replaceable
Location In Chassis: Default string
Chassis Handle: 0x0003
Type: Motherboard
Contained Object Handles: 0
root@Proxmox:~#
I also tried dmidecode -t baseboard, this obviously gave more details,
but most devices were just listed as "other". I haven't found this to be
terribly useful.
My desire is to replace the Raspberry Pi by syncing chrony or ntpd to
the PPS in proxmox and using that instead. It would save a tiny amount
of energy, and would remove the slight jitter caused by the ethernet
port being on USP, I believe. Can anybody on here give me some idea on
how to do this, or perhaps point me in the right direction to find the
information I need.
Most of these Mini-PC's are produced by chinese factories based on
Intels reference designs, and to call them "underdocumented" is
an understatement of the year.
I have yet to see any of them, where the GPIO pins can generate an
interrupt, so your PPS precision will be limited to the poll-rate,
and since the GPIO pins are usually on the LPC bus polling will be
slooooow, which means eating up a lot of CPU and power.
Your best bet is probably the COM port, which can generate interrupts
when the DCD signal changes.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Hi Ed,
I can see how you would want something like this to replace the RPi as
it looks a lot more capable. There does not seem to be a lot of
information about the GPIO port on this board. From previous experience
with Advantech equipment the GPIO ports can be difficult to find
information on. A better option would be to use the COM port also on the
board. This is likely mapped to /dev/ttyS0 on boot. You might have to
enable it in the BIOS first. It should then be possible to use the RS232
handshake lines for the PPS input to the Linux pps-tools. You can also
feed in GPS NMEA to this same communication port that will mean no
external NTP connections are needed.
Regards,
Denis
On 10/02/2024 9:10 am, Ed Armstrong via time-nuts wrote:
I recently purchased one of these mini PCs to be used as my router.
https://cwwk.net/products/cwwk-x86-p5-super-mini-router-12th-gen-intel-n100-ddr5-4800mhz-firewall-pc-2x-i226-v-2-5g-lan-fanless-mini-pc?variant=44732374352104
I am going to be running the new 64-bit Intel release of the excellent
"Tomato" router firmwareTomato64 https://tomato64.org/, which can be
installed either "bare-metal" or as a virtual machine. I am going the
virtual machine route using proxmox v8.1.3. The tiny PC idles at about
9 W and maxes out around 18 W, and has considerably more power than I
need for my routing purposes. So, I also put my FreePBX on a separate
virtual machine, also located on this mini PC. But that is probably
not very interesting to anyone here, nor is it really part of my
question.
Proxmox is a Linux based OS which is designed for the express purpose
of running virtual machines. I suspect many of you on this mailing
list may already be using it yourself. I am currently running my own
stratum one NTP server on a Raspberry Pi 3 which is getting its PPS
from a GPSDO. well, proxmox comes with chrony already installed, and
I'm sure I could change it over to ntpd if I wished to do so. If any
of you follow my first link, you will see the little mini PC has a
header for GPIO. It is a 2x5 header with I believe a 2 mm pitch.
According to the listing, there are four input and four output pins. I
assume the other two pins are either both grounds or both positive,
not really sure.
Now comes my question. Can any of you tell me how to use these GPIO
pins? I can find tons of information very easily on setting this thing
up as a router, NAS, or as a desktop computer. I have not been able to
find a single post related to those GPIO pins. I can't find the pin
out, can't find out what voltage they are supposed to work at, nor any
information about communicating with them in Linux. I queried the
system, hoping I could look up the motherboard online, and this is
what I got:
root@Proxmox:~# dmidecode -t 2
dmidecode 3.4
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 3.6.0 present.
SMBIOS implementations newer than version 3.5.0 are not
fully supported by this version of dmidecode.
Handle 0x0002, DMI type 2, 15 bytes
Base Board Information
Manufacturer: Default string
Product Name: Default string
Version: Default string
Serial Number: Default string
Asset Tag: Default string
Features:
Board is a hosting board
Board is replaceable
Location In Chassis: Default string
Chassis Handle: 0x0003
Type: Motherboard
Contained Object Handles: 0
root@Proxmox:~#
I also tried dmidecode -t baseboard, this obviously gave more details,
but most devices were just listed as "other". I haven't found this to
be terribly useful.
My desire is to replace the Raspberry Pi by syncing chrony or ntpd to
the PPS in proxmox and using that instead. It would save a tiny amount
of energy, and would remove the slight jitter caused by the ethernet
port being on USP, I believe. Can anybody on here give me some idea on
how to do this, or perhaps point me in the right direction to find the
information I need.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Depending on the exact architecture of an embedded PC, a serial port might have hundreds of nanoseconds jitter added by a PCIe switch or things like an LPC interface that maps to a 16 bit 8.33 MHz bus in between.
In an ideal world, a network interface with IEEE-1588 PTP support would directly get a PPS to synchronize a counter
From: Denis Dowling via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 5:14:06 PM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Denis Dowling dpd@opsol.com.au
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Can Anyone Help Me Get PPS Into This Mini PC?
Hi Ed,
I can see how you would want something like this to replace the RPi as
it looks a lot more capable. There does not seem to be a lot of
information about the GPIO port on this board. From previous experience
with Advantech equipment the GPIO ports can be difficult to find
information on. A better option would be to use the COM port also on the
board. This is likely mapped to /dev/ttyS0 on boot. You might have to
enable it in the BIOS first. It should then be possible to use the RS232
handshake lines for the PPS input to the Linux pps-tools. You can also
feed in GPS NMEA to this same communication port that will mean no
external NTP connections are needed.
Regards,
Denis
On 10/02/2024 9:10 am, Ed Armstrong via time-nuts wrote:
I recently purchased one of these mini PCs to be used as my router.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwwk.net_products_cwwk-2Dx86-2Dp5-2Dsuper-2Dmini-2Drouter-2D12th-2Dgen-2Dintel-2Dn100-2Dddr5-2D4800mhz-2Dfirewall-2Dpc-2D2x-2Di226-2Dv-2D2-2D5g-2Dlan-2Dfanless-2Dmini-2Dpc-3Fvariant-3D44732374352104&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=JsDsKeR7cZC8wbZhIlxxBQ&m=JBs9b5cAEBCI0RcPG_SBLalBkFpA8vxUbfgk7fZGN1gP2uLM8TTE12Ls33A0gRnn&s=9JUsRvAgIvKeYLFylZeCPkwW7ImbHurHBMg3mbTe4Qo&e=
I am going to be running the new 64-bit Intel release of the excellent
"Tomato" router firmwareTomato64 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tomato64.org_&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=JsDsKeR7cZC8wbZhIlxxBQ&m=JBs9b5cAEBCI0RcPG_SBLalBkFpA8vxUbfgk7fZGN1gP2uLM8TTE12Ls33A0gRnn&s=HkPJNn78J7mrok__SJQFksbEuxiR87zBhndqPpe8VGo&e=, which can be
installed either "bare-metal" or as a virtual machine. I am going the
virtual machine route using proxmox v8.1.3. The tiny PC idles at about
9 W and maxes out around 18 W, and has considerably more power than I
need for my routing purposes. So, I also put my FreePBX on a separate
virtual machine, also located on this mini PC. But that is probably
not very interesting to anyone here, nor is it really part of my
question.
Proxmox is a Linux based OS which is designed for the express purpose
of running virtual machines. I suspect many of you on this mailing
list may already be using it yourself. I am currently running my own
stratum one NTP server on a Raspberry Pi 3 which is getting its PPS
from a GPSDO. well, proxmox comes with chrony already installed, and
I'm sure I could change it over to ntpd if I wished to do so. If any
of you follow my first link, you will see the little mini PC has a
header for GPIO. It is a 2x5 header with I believe a 2 mm pitch.
According to the listing, there are four input and four output pins. I
assume the other two pins are either both grounds or both positive,
not really sure.
Now comes my question. Can any of you tell me how to use these GPIO
pins? I can find tons of information very easily on setting this thing
up as a router, NAS, or as a desktop computer. I have not been able to
find a single post related to those GPIO pins. I can't find the pin
out, can't find out what voltage they are supposed to work at, nor any
information about communicating with them in Linux. I queried the
system, hoping I could look up the motherboard online, and this is
what I got:
root@Proxmox:~# dmidecode -t 2
dmidecode 3.4
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 3.6.0 present.
SMBIOS implementations newer than version 3.5.0 are not
fully supported by this version of dmidecode.
Handle 0x0002, DMI type 2, 15 bytes
Base Board Information
Manufacturer: Default string
Product Name: Default string
Version: Default string
Serial Number: Default string
Asset Tag: Default string
Features:
Board is a hosting board
Board is replaceable
Location In Chassis: Default string
Chassis Handle: 0x0003
Type: Motherboard
Contained Object Handles: 0
root@Proxmox:~#
I also tried dmidecode -t baseboard, this obviously gave more details,
but most devices were just listed as "other". I haven't found this to
be terribly useful.
My desire is to replace the Raspberry Pi by syncing chrony or ntpd to
the PPS in proxmox and using that instead. It would save a tiny amount
of energy, and would remove the slight jitter caused by the ethernet
port being on USP, I believe. Can anybody on here give me some idea on
how to do this, or perhaps point me in the right direction to find the
information I need.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Hi
Like it or not, pretty much all these small (and many not so small) MCU’s are a bit challenged in terms of single digit nanosecond time capture. It simply isn’t a design priority for these folks. If the hardware is challenged, then whatever goes on top of that will simply add more issues.
If you really need single digit sort of accuracy, some sort of outboard “gizmo” is likely to be part of the design.
At this point it is a bit unclear if the goal is +/- 1 ns accuracy. +/- 10 ns resolution, or something else entirely different. There’s a really wide range between those two limits. Both might be called “I need nanoseconds”.
If the goal is something like the PPS pulse out of a typical modern GPS module, a goal below 200ps accuracy just might be what somebody would look for. That (at least to me) would be well outside the “I need nanoseconds” range. Once you add a TDC, it’s not that much harder than 2 ns accuracy.
Bob
On Feb 12, 2024, at 7:17 PM, Ed Marciniak via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
Depending on the exact architecture of an embedded PC, a serial port might have hundreds of nanoseconds jitter added by a PCIe switch or things like an LPC interface that maps to a 16 bit 8.33 MHz bus in between.
In an ideal world, a network interface with IEEE-1588 PTP support would directly get a PPS to synchronize a counter
From: Denis Dowling via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 5:14:06 PM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Denis Dowling dpd@opsol.com.au
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Can Anyone Help Me Get PPS Into This Mini PC?
Hi Ed,
I can see how you would want something like this to replace the RPi as
it looks a lot more capable. There does not seem to be a lot of
information about the GPIO port on this board. From previous experience
with Advantech equipment the GPIO ports can be difficult to find
information on. A better option would be to use the COM port also on the
board. This is likely mapped to /dev/ttyS0 on boot. You might have to
enable it in the BIOS first. It should then be possible to use the RS232
handshake lines for the PPS input to the Linux pps-tools. You can also
feed in GPS NMEA to this same communication port that will mean no
external NTP connections are needed.
Regards,
Denis
On 10/02/2024 9:10 am, Ed Armstrong via time-nuts wrote:
I recently purchased one of these mini PCs to be used as my router.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwwk.net_products_cwwk-2Dx86-2Dp5-2Dsuper-2Dmini-2Drouter-2D12th-2Dgen-2Dintel-2Dn100-2Dddr5-2D4800mhz-2Dfirewall-2Dpc-2D2x-2Di226-2Dv-2D2-2D5g-2Dlan-2Dfanless-2Dmini-2Dpc-3Fvariant-3D44732374352104&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=JsDsKeR7cZC8wbZhIlxxBQ&m=JBs9b5cAEBCI0RcPG_SBLalBkFpA8vxUbfgk7fZGN1gP2uLM8TTE12Ls33A0gRnn&s=9JUsRvAgIvKeYLFylZeCPkwW7ImbHurHBMg3mbTe4Qo&e=
I am going to be running the new 64-bit Intel release of the excellent
"Tomato" router firmwareTomato64 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tomato64.org_&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=JsDsKeR7cZC8wbZhIlxxBQ&m=JBs9b5cAEBCI0RcPG_SBLalBkFpA8vxUbfgk7fZGN1gP2uLM8TTE12Ls33A0gRnn&s=HkPJNn78J7mrok__SJQFksbEuxiR87zBhndqPpe8VGo&e=, which can be
installed either "bare-metal" or as a virtual machine. I am going the
virtual machine route using proxmox v8.1.3. The tiny PC idles at about
9 W and maxes out around 18 W, and has considerably more power than I
need for my routing purposes. So, I also put my FreePBX on a separate
virtual machine, also located on this mini PC. But that is probably
not very interesting to anyone here, nor is it really part of my
question.
Proxmox is a Linux based OS which is designed for the express purpose
of running virtual machines. I suspect many of you on this mailing
list may already be using it yourself. I am currently running my own
stratum one NTP server on a Raspberry Pi 3 which is getting its PPS
from a GPSDO. well, proxmox comes with chrony already installed, and
I'm sure I could change it over to ntpd if I wished to do so. If any
of you follow my first link, you will see the little mini PC has a
header for GPIO. It is a 2x5 header with I believe a 2 mm pitch.
According to the listing, there are four input and four output pins. I
assume the other two pins are either both grounds or both positive,
not really sure.
Now comes my question. Can any of you tell me how to use these GPIO
pins? I can find tons of information very easily on setting this thing
up as a router, NAS, or as a desktop computer. I have not been able to
find a single post related to those GPIO pins. I can't find the pin
out, can't find out what voltage they are supposed to work at, nor any
information about communicating with them in Linux. I queried the
system, hoping I could look up the motherboard online, and this is
what I got:
root@Proxmox:~# dmidecode -t 2
dmidecode 3.4
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 3.6.0 present.
SMBIOS implementations newer than version 3.5.0 are not
fully supported by this version of dmidecode.
Handle 0x0002, DMI type 2, 15 bytes
Base Board Information
Manufacturer: Default string
Product Name: Default string
Version: Default string
Serial Number: Default string
Asset Tag: Default string
Features:
Board is a hosting board
Board is replaceable
Location In Chassis: Default string
Chassis Handle: 0x0003
Type: Motherboard
Contained Object Handles: 0
root@Proxmox:~#
I also tried dmidecode -t baseboard, this obviously gave more details,
but most devices were just listed as "other". I haven't found this to
be terribly useful.
My desire is to replace the Raspberry Pi by syncing chrony or ntpd to
the PPS in proxmox and using that instead. It would save a tiny amount
of energy, and would remove the slight jitter caused by the ethernet
port being on USP, I believe. Can anybody on here give me some idea on
how to do this, or perhaps point me in the right direction to find the
information I need.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Hi,
Speaking of which. Many have realized that normal PCs and servers don't
have any aspect of stellar timing performance. Several have developed
time cards, and now Facebook/META initiated IEEE standardization as IEEE
P3335. Me and Joe Gwinn is time-nuts active there, maybe some more.
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-02-13 21:13, Bob Camp via time-nuts wrote:
Hi
Like it or not, pretty much all these small (and many not so small) MCU’s are a bit challenged in terms of single digit nanosecond time capture. It simply isn’t a design priority for these folks. If the hardware is challenged, then whatever goes on top of that will simply add more issues.
If you really need single digit sort of accuracy, some sort of outboard “gizmo” is likely to be part of the design.
At this point it is a bit unclear if the goal is +/- 1 ns accuracy. +/- 10 ns resolution, or something else entirely different. There’s a really wide range between those two limits. Both might be called “I need nanoseconds”.
If the goal is something like the PPS pulse out of a typical modern GPS module, a goal below 200ps accuracy just might be what somebody would look for. That (at least to me) would be well outside the “I need nanoseconds” range. Once you add a TDC, it’s not that much harder than 2 ns accuracy.
Bob
On Feb 12, 2024, at 7:17 PM, Ed Marciniak via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
Depending on the exact architecture of an embedded PC, a serial port might have hundreds of nanoseconds jitter added by a PCIe switch or things like an LPC interface that maps to a 16 bit 8.33 MHz bus in between.
In an ideal world, a network interface with IEEE-1588 PTP support would directly get a PPS to synchronize a counter
From: Denis Dowling via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 5:14:06 PM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Denis Dowling dpd@opsol.com.au
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Can Anyone Help Me Get PPS Into This Mini PC?Hi Ed,
I can see how you would want something like this to replace the RPi as
it looks a lot more capable. There does not seem to be a lot of
information about the GPIO port on this board. From previous experience
with Advantech equipment the GPIO ports can be difficult to find
information on. A better option would be to use the COM port also on the
board. This is likely mapped to /dev/ttyS0 on boot. You might have to
enable it in the BIOS first. It should then be possible to use the RS232
handshake lines for the PPS input to the Linux pps-tools. You can also
feed in GPS NMEA to this same communication port that will mean no
external NTP connections are needed.Regards,
DenisOn 10/02/2024 9:10 am, Ed Armstrong via time-nuts wrote:
I recently purchased one of these mini PCs to be used as my router.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwwk.net_products_cwwk-2Dx86-2Dp5-2Dsuper-2Dmini-2Drouter-2D12th-2Dgen-2Dintel-2Dn100-2Dddr5-2D4800mhz-2Dfirewall-2Dpc-2D2x-2Di226-2Dv-2D2-2D5g-2Dlan-2Dfanless-2Dmini-2Dpc-3Fvariant-3D44732374352104&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=JsDsKeR7cZC8wbZhIlxxBQ&m=JBs9b5cAEBCI0RcPG_SBLalBkFpA8vxUbfgk7fZGN1gP2uLM8TTE12Ls33A0gRnn&s=9JUsRvAgIvKeYLFylZeCPkwW7ImbHurHBMg3mbTe4Qo&e=I am going to be running the new 64-bit Intel release of the excellent
"Tomato" router firmwareTomato64 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tomato64.org_&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=JsDsKeR7cZC8wbZhIlxxBQ&m=JBs9b5cAEBCI0RcPG_SBLalBkFpA8vxUbfgk7fZGN1gP2uLM8TTE12Ls33A0gRnn&s=HkPJNn78J7mrok__SJQFksbEuxiR87zBhndqPpe8VGo&e=, which can be
installed either "bare-metal" or as a virtual machine. I am going the
virtual machine route using proxmox v8.1.3. The tiny PC idles at about
9 W and maxes out around 18 W, and has considerably more power than I
need for my routing purposes. So, I also put my FreePBX on a separate
virtual machine, also located on this mini PC. But that is probably
not very interesting to anyone here, nor is it really part of my
question.Proxmox is a Linux based OS which is designed for the express purpose
of running virtual machines. I suspect many of you on this mailing
list may already be using it yourself. I am currently running my own
stratum one NTP server on a Raspberry Pi 3 which is getting its PPS
from a GPSDO. well, proxmox comes with chrony already installed, and
I'm sure I could change it over to ntpd if I wished to do so. If any
of you follow my first link, you will see the little mini PC has a
header for GPIO. It is a 2x5 header with I believe a 2 mm pitch.
According to the listing, there are four input and four output pins. I
assume the other two pins are either both grounds or both positive,
not really sure.Now comes my question. Can any of you tell me how to use these GPIO
pins? I can find tons of information very easily on setting this thing
up as a router, NAS, or as a desktop computer. I have not been able to
find a single post related to those GPIO pins. I can't find the pin
out, can't find out what voltage they are supposed to work at, nor any
information about communicating with them in Linux. I queried the
system, hoping I could look up the motherboard online, and this is
what I got:root@Proxmox:~# dmidecode -t 2
dmidecode 3.4
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 3.6.0 present.SMBIOS implementations newer than version 3.5.0 are not
fully supported by this version of dmidecode.
Handle 0x0002, DMI type 2, 15 bytes
Base Board Information
Manufacturer: Default string
Product Name: Default string
Version: Default string
Serial Number: Default string
Asset Tag: Default string
Features:
Board is a hosting board
Board is replaceable
Location In Chassis: Default string
Chassis Handle: 0x0003
Type: Motherboard
Contained Object Handles: 0root@Proxmox:~#
I also tried dmidecode -t baseboard, this obviously gave more details,
but most devices were just listed as "other". I haven't found this to
be terribly useful.My desire is to replace the Raspberry Pi by syncing chrony or ntpd to
the PPS in proxmox and using that instead. It would save a tiny amount
of energy, and would remove the slight jitter caused by the ethernet
port being on USP, I believe. Can anybody on here give me some idea on
how to do this, or perhaps point me in the right direction to find the
information I need.
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On Freitag, 9. Februar 2024 23:10:26 CET Ed Armstrong wrote:
If any of you follow my
first link, you will see the little mini PC has a header for GPIO. It is
a 2x5 header with I believe a 2 mm pitch. According to the listing,
there are four input and four output pins. I assume the other two pins
are either both grounds or both positive, not really sure.
This arrangement indicates most likely a separate GPIO expander chip that is
connected to some internal SPI or LPC bus and mapped to an 8bit "register".
These are probably not suitable for PPS the same way as the GPIO on RasPi and
may even need to get polled. However, it is possible that the header
provides access to some PCH GPIO pins, which would in principle enable the use
of PCH timestamping on two of these pins unless they're already used up
elsewhere.
Now comes my question. Can any of you tell me how to use these GPIO
pins? I can find tons of information very easily on setting this thing
up as a router, NAS, or as a desktop computer. I have not been able to
find a single post related to those GPIO pins. I can't find the pin out,
can't find out what voltage they are supposed to work at, nor any
information about communicating with them in Linux. I queried the
system, hoping I could look up the motherboard online, and this is what
[…]
I also tried dmidecode -t baseboard, this obviously gave more details,
but most devices were just listed as "other". I haven't found this to be
terribly useful.
If the system is correctly recognizing the GPIO resources, they should show up
under /sys/class/gpio and link to the actual devices which should give you a
clue as to what actual chips are behind it. Some of the PCH GPIO will be used
internally (for instance the i226V needs at least one GPIO for power gating)
and therefore may be not get exposed.
Regards,
Achim.
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+
Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Q+, Q and microQ:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds
Hello,
Adding to Achim’s comments, I have used similar GPIO ports on some small,
Intel-based SBCs. These are associated with the 8186x family of I/0 chips
which provide a parallel port, UARTS, floppy controller etc. Fintek is one
manufacturer. These can only be used as a simple digital port that can be
written to and read from user space.
My recent experience with PPS timestamping on Intel is that it does not
work so great anymore. The serial port option for low latency interrupt
servicing no longer does anything. I see regular 100 microsecond spikes in
timestamping which hose any attempt to keep precise time. So RPi is what I
use now.
Cheers
Michael
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 4:57 am, ASSI via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
wrote:
On Freitag, 9. Februar 2024 23:10:26 CET Ed Armstrong wrote:
If any of you follow my
first link, you will see the little mini PC has a header for GPIO. It is
a 2x5 header with I believe a 2 mm pitch. According to the listing,
there are four input and four output pins. I assume the other two pins
are either both grounds or both positive, not really sure.
This arrangement indicates most likely a separate GPIO expander chip that
is
connected to some internal SPI or LPC bus and mapped to an 8bit
"register".
These are probably not suitable for PPS the same way as the GPIO on RasPi
and
may even need to get polled. However, it is possible that the header
provides access to some PCH GPIO pins, which would in principle enable the
use
of PCH timestamping on two of these pins unless they're already used up
elsewhere.
Now comes my question. Can any of you tell me how to use these GPIO
pins? I can find tons of information very easily on setting this thing
up as a router, NAS, or as a desktop computer. I have not been able to
find a single post related to those GPIO pins. I can't find the pin out,
can't find out what voltage they are supposed to work at, nor any
information about communicating with them in Linux. I queried the
system, hoping I could look up the motherboard online, and this is what
[…]
I also tried dmidecode -t baseboard, this obviously gave more details,
but most devices were just listed as "other". I haven't found this to be
terribly useful.
If the system is correctly recognizing the GPIO resources, they should
show up
under /sys/class/gpio and link to the actual devices which should give you
a
clue as to what actual chips are behind it. Some of the PCH GPIO will be
used
internally (for instance the i226V needs at least one GPIO for power
gating)
and therefore may be not get exposed.
Regards,
Achim.
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+
Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Q+, Q and microQ:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Since Celerons aren't known for having random GPIOs right on the CPU, it's
probably on some little I2C or LPC chip, and doesn't have an IRQ suitable
for the pps-gpio driver.
On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 11:35 AM Ed Armstrong via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
I recently purchased one of these mini PCs to be used as my router.
I am going to be running the new 64-bit Intel release of the excellent
"Tomato" router firmwareTomato64 https://tomato64.org/, which can be
installed either "bare-metal" or as a virtual machine. I am going the
virtual machine route using proxmox v8.1.3. The tiny PC idles at about 9
W and maxes out around 18 W, and has considerably more power than I need
for my routing purposes. So, I also put my FreePBX on a separate virtual
machine, also located on this mini PC. But that is probably not very
interesting to anyone here, nor is it really part of my question.
Proxmox is a Linux based OS which is designed for the express purpose of
running virtual machines. I suspect many of you on this mailing list may
already be using it yourself. I am currently running my own stratum one
NTP server on a Raspberry Pi 3 which is getting its PPS from a GPSDO.
well, proxmox comes with chrony already installed, and I'm sure I could
change it over to ntpd if I wished to do so. If any of you follow my
first link, you will see the little mini PC has a header for GPIO. It is
a 2x5 header with I believe a 2 mm pitch. According to the listing,
there are four input and four output pins. I assume the other two pins
are either both grounds or both positive, not really sure.
Now comes my question. Can any of you tell me how to use these GPIO
pins? I can find tons of information very easily on setting this thing
up as a router, NAS, or as a desktop computer. I have not been able to
find a single post related to those GPIO pins. I can't find the pin out,
can't find out what voltage they are supposed to work at, nor any
information about communicating with them in Linux. I queried the
system, hoping I could look up the motherboard online, and this is what
I got:
root@Proxmox:~# dmidecode -t 2
dmidecode 3.4
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 3.6.0 present.
SMBIOS implementations newer than version 3.5.0 are not
fully supported by this version of dmidecode.
Handle 0x0002, DMI type 2, 15 bytes
Base Board Information
Manufacturer: Default string
Product Name: Default string
Version: Default string
Serial Number: Default string
Asset Tag: Default string
Features:
Board is a hosting board
Board is replaceable
Location In Chassis: Default string
Chassis Handle: 0x0003
Type: Motherboard
Contained Object Handles: 0
root@Proxmox:~#
I also tried dmidecode -t baseboard, this obviously gave more details,
but most devices were just listed as "other". I haven't found this to be
terribly useful.
My desire is to replace the Raspberry Pi by syncing chrony or ntpd to
the PPS in proxmox and using that instead. It would save a tiny amount
of energy, and would remove the slight jitter caused by the ethernet
port being on USP, I believe. Can anybody on here give me some idea on
how to do this, or perhaps point me in the right direction to find the
information I need.
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The raspberry pi 5 moved the GPIO to a PCIe device with its own AXI bus, rather than an AXI bus on the CPU/GPU die.
If the bus were busy and happened to send maximum 256 byte data blocks, it could add not insignificant latency.
I recall seeing something about the Ethernet having IEEE-1588 on the PI 5
Here's something about the pi compute module 4 and PTP (spoiler, you get a 1.8V input or output pin but not both on the CM4 official IO board). The compute module 4 has a different Ethernet chip than the full size pi 4, which lacks 1588 support. The datasheet conflicts in suggesting the IO is 3.3V. I don't profess to know and haven't measured it myself.
https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2022/ptp-and-ieee-1588-hardware-timestamping-on-raspberry-pi-cm4
Given what the CM4 modules and an IO board cost ($65 and up total), something that is potentially accurate to under 20ns is impressive. I wouldn't even try to use an older or other pi as a solution.
From: Michael Wouters via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 3:59:13 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Michael Wouters michaeljwouters@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Can Anyone Help Me Get PPS Into This Mini PC?
Hello,
Adding to Achim’s comments, I have used similar GPIO ports on some small,
Intel-based SBCs. These are associated with the 8186x family of I/0 chips
which provide a parallel port, UARTS, floppy controller etc. Fintek is one
manufacturer. These can only be used as a simple digital port that can be
written to and read from user space.
My recent experience with PPS timestamping on Intel is that it does not
work so great anymore. The serial port option for low latency interrupt
servicing no longer does anything. I see regular 100 microsecond spikes in
timestamping which hose any attempt to keep precise time. So RPi is what I
use now.
Cheers
Michael
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 4:57 am, ASSI via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
wrote:
On Freitag, 9. Februar 2024 23:10:26 CET Ed Armstrong wrote:
If any of you follow my
first link, you will see the little mini PC has a header for GPIO. It is
a 2x5 header with I believe a 2 mm pitch. According to the listing,
there are four input and four output pins. I assume the other two pins
are either both grounds or both positive, not really sure.
This arrangement indicates most likely a separate GPIO expander chip that
is
connected to some internal SPI or LPC bus and mapped to an 8bit
"register".
These are probably not suitable for PPS the same way as the GPIO on RasPi
and
may even need to get polled. However, it is possible that the header
provides access to some PCH GPIO pins, which would in principle enable the
use
of PCH timestamping on two of these pins unless they're already used up
elsewhere.
Now comes my question. Can any of you tell me how to use these GPIO
pins? I can find tons of information very easily on setting this thing
up as a router, NAS, or as a desktop computer. I have not been able to
find a single post related to those GPIO pins. I can't find the pin out,
can't find out what voltage they are supposed to work at, nor any
information about communicating with them in Linux. I queried the
system, hoping I could look up the motherboard online, and this is what
[…]
I also tried dmidecode -t baseboard, this obviously gave more details,
but most devices were just listed as "other". I haven't found this to be
terribly useful.
If the system is correctly recognizing the GPIO resources, they should
show up
under /sys/class/gpio and link to the actual devices which should give you
a
clue as to what actual chips are behind it. Some of the PCH GPIO will be
used
internally (for instance the i226V needs at least one GPIO for power
gating)
and therefore may be not get exposed.
Regards,
Achim.
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+
Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Q+, Q and microQ:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__Synth.Stromeko.net_Downloads.html-23WaldorfSounds&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=JsDsKeR7cZC8wbZhIlxxBQ&m=K-DBln_FVjDt78Y1MlyJvdDNNfWedZGzyw-XGWKFu2dsuvcq7ixY6s_7I3_p_ph_&s=nfkv9-WdPm4lBj-l_finnla1EsfLwg2ksgqZ3jFKI8I&e=
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