Ah, just found an Engineering Note in my files that again quotes 5uA at 2.5V but also quotes 100uA at 5.0V, perhaps not too relevant at 3.1V but that's quite an increase. The same document quotes the following specs for the optional onboard lithium battery... Voltage -- 3V Capacity -- 15mAh approximately 3 months between charges Recharge -- approximately 8 hours for a full charge Lifetime -- 5 Years minimum. So I guess an onboard battery conversion might still be a viable option. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 02/11/2014 21:01:55 GMT Standard Time, kb8tq@n1k.org writes: Hi So then the question becomes - What is the real cutoff voltage? Your pair of AA’s will start off at 3.1V, but they will get to 2.5 long before they are truly dead. Is the RAM gone at 2.5000 or 2.4 or “about 2 volts ” …. Bob > On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:54 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > > Hi Bob > > The UT+ data sheet from 1998 quotes an external backup supply of 2.5 to > 5.35V with a drain of 5uA typical at 2.5 Volts. > > Regards > > Nigel > GM8PZR > > > In a message dated 02/11/2014 20:41:44 GMT Standard Time, kb8tq@n1k.org > writes: > > Hi > > The numbers quoted earlier (and they sound right) were 20 uA at 2.5V. That > would be well under your 100uA. My *guess* is that self discharge / aging > on a normal AA is going to limit things faster than a 20 uA drain. > > Now, if you have the more normal tiny coin cell involved with 1/10 or > 1/100 that capacity and much lower self discharge …. > > Bob > >> On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net> wrote: >> >>> By the way the z3801 is off most of the year so the drains quite small. >> >> I think that's backwards. The battery is only used when there is no > power to >> the GPS module. >> >> AAs are roughly 2800 mA hours. There are 8760 hours in a year. That's > 319 >> microamp years. (How's that for a SI unit?) So that's 3 years if your > GPS >> module takes 100 uA. I think that's way high. Anybody measured it? > There >> is probably a strong temperature component. >> >> >> -- >> These are my opinions. I hate spam. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Hi It’s those little onboard batteries that I have the experience with. After a while, you are doing well to get a month out of them. Play for a bit longer and they are down to a couple weeks. That’s not a surprising thing, the charging circuit on some of this stuff is often less than perfect. You get a lot of cycles / long life out of a properly handled battery. Abuse the poor thing and not so long a life. Bob > On Nov 2, 2014, at 4:12 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > > Ah, just found an Engineering Note in my files that again quotes 5uA at > 2.5V but also quotes 100uA at 5.0V, perhaps not too relevant at 3.1V but > that's quite an increase. > > The same document quotes the following specs for the optional onboard > lithium battery... > > Voltage -- 3V > Capacity -- 15mAh > approximately 3 months between charges > Recharge -- approximately 8 hours for a full charge > Lifetime -- 5 Years minimum. > > So I guess an onboard battery conversion might still be a viable option. > > Regards > > Nigel > GM8PZR > > > In a message dated 02/11/2014 21:01:55 GMT Standard Time, kb8tq@n1k.org > writes: > > Hi > > So then the question becomes - What is the real cutoff voltage? > > Your pair of AA’s will start off at 3.1V, but they will get to 2.5 long > before they are truly dead. Is the RAM gone at 2.5000 or 2.4 or “about 2 volts > ” …. > > Bob > >> On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:54 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts > <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Bob >> >> The UT+ data sheet from 1998 quotes an external backup supply of 2.5 to >> 5.35V with a drain of 5uA typical at 2.5 Volts. >> >> Regards >> >> Nigel >> GM8PZR >> >> >> In a message dated 02/11/2014 20:41:44 GMT Standard Time, kb8tq@n1k.org >> writes: >> >> Hi >> >> The numbers quoted earlier (and they sound right) were 20 uA at 2.5V. > That >> would be well under your 100uA. My *guess* is that self discharge / > aging >> on a normal AA is going to limit things faster than a 20 uA drain. >> >> Now, if you have the more normal tiny coin cell involved with 1/10 or >> 1/100 that capacity and much lower self discharge …. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net> > wrote: >>> >>>> By the way the z3801 is off most of the year so the drains quite > small. >>> >>> I think that's backwards. The battery is only used when there is no >> power to >>> the GPS module. >>> >>> AAs are roughly 2800 mA hours. There are 8760 hours in a year. > That's >> 319 >>> microamp years. (How's that for a SI unit?) So that's 3 years if > your >> GPS >>> module takes 100 uA. I think that's way high. Anybody measured it? >> There >>> is probably a strong temperature component. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> These are my opinions. I hate spam. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Good conversation I am accurate in what I am saying about the z3801. Its off most of the time so it is drawing against the the AA batteries most of the time. One more note my bad, they are AAAs. Like Bob says most likely self discharge and such will get them first. No matter they get changed next year anyhow since I really don't want to enjoy some leakage and it takes just a few easy seconds to change while the system is on. I may have missed it but was curious on the 15 pin cable if it was 1 to 1. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > It’s those little onboard batteries that I have the experience with. After > a while, you are doing well to get a month out of them. Play for a bit > longer and they are down to a couple weeks. That’s not a surprising thing, > the charging circuit on some of this stuff is often less than perfect. You > get a lot of cycles / long life out of a properly handled battery. Abuse > the poor thing and not so long a life. > > Bob > > > On Nov 2, 2014, at 4:12 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts < > time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > > > > Ah, just found an Engineering Note in my files that again quotes 5uA at > > 2.5V but also quotes 100uA at 5.0V, perhaps not too relevant at 3.1V but > > that's quite an increase. > > > > The same document quotes the following specs for the optional onboard > > lithium battery... > > > > Voltage -- 3V > > Capacity -- 15mAh > > approximately 3 months between charges > > Recharge -- approximately 8 hours for a full charge > > Lifetime -- 5 Years minimum. > > > > So I guess an onboard battery conversion might still be a viable option. > > > > Regards > > > > Nigel > > GM8PZR > > > > > > In a message dated 02/11/2014 21:01:55 GMT Standard Time, kb8tq@n1k.org > > writes: > > > > Hi > > > > So then the question becomes - What is the real cutoff voltage? > > > > Your pair of AA’s will start off at 3.1V, but they will get to 2.5 long > > before they are truly dead. Is the RAM gone at 2.5000 or 2.4 or “about > 2 volts > > ” …. > > > > Bob > > > >> On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:54 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts > > <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Bob > >> > >> The UT+ data sheet from 1998 quotes an external backup supply of 2.5 to > >> 5.35V with a drain of 5uA typical at 2.5 Volts. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Nigel > >> GM8PZR > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 02/11/2014 20:41:44 GMT Standard Time, > kb8tq@n1k.org > >> writes: > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> The numbers quoted earlier (and they sound right) were 20 uA at 2.5V. > > That > >> would be well under your 100uA. My *guess* is that self discharge / > > aging > >> on a normal AA is going to limit things faster than a 20 uA drain. > >> > >> Now, if you have the more normal tiny coin cell involved with 1/10 or > >> 1/100 that capacity and much lower self discharge …. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net> > > wrote: > >>> > >>>> By the way the z3801 is off most of the year so the drains quite > > small. > >>> > >>> I think that's backwards. The battery is only used when there is no > >> power to > >>> the GPS module. > >>> > >>> AAs are roughly 2800 mA hours. There are 8760 hours in a year. > > That's > >> 319 > >>> microamp years. (How's that for a SI unit?) So that's 3 years if > > your > >> GPS > >>> module takes 100 uA. I think that's way high. Anybody measured it? > >> There > >>> is probably a strong temperature component. > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> These are my opinions. I hate spam. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi After spending some quality time with Mr. Google, I dug out some of the old UT+ information. The little beast does indeed forget everything it ever knew once you loose battery / super cap / whatever backup power. You can force a position, but it’s not persistent once you loose RAM. If these GPSDO's normally ran with nothing connected to the Diag (HP commands) port, there may not be a way to force a survey solution into the GPS. If there is a Lucent command that does that over the PPS port, I’ve not seen mention of it. The approach may well have been to save what ever you had to RAM and if you lost it, back to square one. That’s not as crazy as it sounds. Having a cell site power down for 24 hours is a “big deal”. Having one out for several days, should be a very rare thing. If the super cap does the job for a few days, that may have been all the designers cared about. In TimeNut use, the situation isn’t really all that different. These boxes take a long time to get everything all worked out and stabilized. Turning them on and off is not a real good idea. Having them coast through a 24 hour power outage (position wise) is probably good enough for most of us. If you often have outages longer than a day, cancel my request to come play at your house …. Having a nice modern GPS receiver outside the box might have it’s benefits in some cases. Getting the slave boxes figured out could be moving up on my list of things to do. Bob > On Nov 2, 2014, at 4:12 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > > Ah, just found an Engineering Note in my files that again quotes 5uA at > 2.5V but also quotes 100uA at 5.0V, perhaps not too relevant at 3.1V but > that's quite an increase. > > The same document quotes the following specs for the optional onboard > lithium battery... > > Voltage -- 3V > Capacity -- 15mAh > approximately 3 months between charges > Recharge -- approximately 8 hours for a full charge > Lifetime -- 5 Years minimum. > > So I guess an onboard battery conversion might still be a viable option. > > Regards > > Nigel > GM8PZR > > > In a message dated 02/11/2014 21:01:55 GMT Standard Time, kb8tq@n1k.org > writes: > > Hi > > So then the question becomes - What is the real cutoff voltage? > > Your pair of AA’s will start off at 3.1V, but they will get to 2.5 long > before they are truly dead. Is the RAM gone at 2.5000 or 2.4 or “about 2 volts > ” …. > > Bob > >> On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:54 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts > <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Bob >> >> The UT+ data sheet from 1998 quotes an external backup supply of 2.5 to >> 5.35V with a drain of 5uA typical at 2.5 Volts. >> >> Regards >> >> Nigel >> GM8PZR >> >> >> In a message dated 02/11/2014 20:41:44 GMT Standard Time, kb8tq@n1k.org >> writes: >> >> Hi >> >> The numbers quoted earlier (and they sound right) were 20 uA at 2.5V. > That >> would be well under your 100uA. My *guess* is that self discharge / > aging >> on a normal AA is going to limit things faster than a 20 uA drain. >> >> Now, if you have the more normal tiny coin cell involved with 1/10 or >> 1/100 that capacity and much lower self discharge …. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net> > wrote: >>> >>>> By the way the z3801 is off most of the year so the drains quite > small. >>> >>> I think that's backwards. The battery is only used when there is no >> power to >>> the GPS module. >>> >>> AAs are roughly 2800 mA hours. There are 8760 hours in a year. > That's >> 319 >>> microamp years. (How's that for a SI unit?) So that's 3 years if > your >> GPS >>> module takes 100 uA. I think that's way high. Anybody measured it? >> There >>> is probably a strong temperature component. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> These are my opinions. I hate spam. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Hi The 15 pin cable is: Pair End A End B A 1 9 B 2 10 C 3 11 D 4 12 E 5 13 F 6 14 G 7 15 ground 8 8 C above appears to be a CMOS signal. My guess is that D is 1/2 of an RS-422 pair. The rest are a “to be discovered” at this point. Treasure map (all voltages approximate): 2.5 V = RS-422 input 1.5 V = RS-422 output 3.5 V = RS-422 output (other half of the pair) O or 5 V = CMOS output Bob > On Nov 2, 2014, at 4:55 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > > Good conversation > I am accurate in what I am saying about the z3801. Its off most of the time > so it is drawing against the the AA batteries most of the time. One more > note my bad, they are AAAs. > Like Bob says most likely self discharge and such will get them first. No > matter they get changed next year anyhow since I really don't want to enjoy > some leakage and it takes just a few easy seconds to change while the > system is on. > > I may have missed it but was curious on the 15 pin cable if it was 1 to 1. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > > > On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> It’s those little onboard batteries that I have the experience with. After >> a while, you are doing well to get a month out of them. Play for a bit >> longer and they are down to a couple weeks. That’s not a surprising thing, >> the charging circuit on some of this stuff is often less than perfect. You >> get a lot of cycles / long life out of a properly handled battery. Abuse >> the poor thing and not so long a life. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Nov 2, 2014, at 4:12 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts < >> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >>> >>> Ah, just found an Engineering Note in my files that again quotes 5uA at >>> 2.5V but also quotes 100uA at 5.0V, perhaps not too relevant at 3.1V but >>> that's quite an increase. >>> >>> The same document quotes the following specs for the optional onboard >>> lithium battery... >>> >>> Voltage -- 3V >>> Capacity -- 15mAh >>> approximately 3 months between charges >>> Recharge -- approximately 8 hours for a full charge >>> Lifetime -- 5 Years minimum. >>> >>> So I guess an onboard battery conversion might still be a viable option. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Nigel >>> GM8PZR >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 02/11/2014 21:01:55 GMT Standard Time, kb8tq@n1k.org >>> writes: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> So then the question becomes - What is the real cutoff voltage? >>> >>> Your pair of AA’s will start off at 3.1V, but they will get to 2.5 long >>> before they are truly dead. Is the RAM gone at 2.5000 or 2.4 or “about >> 2 volts >>> ” …. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:54 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts >>> <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Bob >>>> >>>> The UT+ data sheet from 1998 quotes an external backup supply of 2.5 to >>>> 5.35V with a drain of 5uA typical at 2.5 Volts. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Nigel >>>> GM8PZR >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 02/11/2014 20:41:44 GMT Standard Time, >> kb8tq@n1k.org >>>> writes: >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> The numbers quoted earlier (and they sound right) were 20 uA at 2.5V. >>> That >>>> would be well under your 100uA. My *guess* is that self discharge / >>> aging >>>> on a normal AA is going to limit things faster than a 20 uA drain. >>>> >>>> Now, if you have the more normal tiny coin cell involved with 1/10 or >>>> 1/100 that capacity and much lower self discharge …. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> By the way the z3801 is off most of the year so the drains quite >>> small. >>>>> >>>>> I think that's backwards. The battery is only used when there is no >>>> power to >>>>> the GPS module. >>>>> >>>>> AAs are roughly 2800 mA hours. There are 8760 hours in a year. >>> That's >>>> 319 >>>>> microamp years. (How's that for a SI unit?) So that's 3 years if >>> your >>>> GPS >>>>> module takes 100 uA. I think that's way high. Anybody measured it? >>>> There >>>>> is probably a strong temperature component. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> These are my opinions. I hate spam. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.