For my Krogen 42, I have 200' 3/8" BBB galvanized backed up with 100' of
5/8" Nylon triple strand. I just added the Nylon, but have yet to use it.

Keith
__
'I haven't lost my mind -- it's backed up on tape somewhere.'
----- Original Message -----
From: Awgertoo@aol.com

what

on 1/8/04 2:49 PM, Awgertoo@aol.com at Awgertoo@aol.com wrote:

Hi Mike.

I have 300 ft, but have never used more than about 225 ft.

Bob

R C Smith Jr
M/V MARY KATHRYN
1977 Hatteras 58 LRC
Marathon in the Florida Keys

I was wondering, what is the proper scoop if you go with all-chain.

Sylvain

what

The Esperanza has 650 feet of all chain rode. I have used it at 250 ft depth
in Desolation Sound. I  know that we have 650 feet because one day my guests
and I pulled all of it out of the lockers and strung it out on the dock. We
then painted 50 foot increments with a color code so I could tell how much
chain was out. It took us all day to do this, but now I can tell how much is
out. The dock manager in Canada thought we were nuts as we laid it out in
100 foot lenghts and marked it with spray paint.

I have used it in 250 deep water and strong currents with 500 ft of chain
out. Not the 7 to one scope recommended, but it held in 15 knot currents and
30 knot winds.

When the chain was on the dock. the bow raised up about three inches. I lot
of weight in the bow.

When we anchor is shallow water, eg 30 feet, after I set the anchor, I drop
about 50 feet of chain and have never had a problem in protected areas.

I once anchored in Lake Washington to watch the Blue Angels. The water depth
was 175 feet so I let out 350 feet and stayed within 20 feet of the anchor
in 20 knot winds. Guess the weight of the chain keeps it in place even
without the proper scope.

Don Sorensen
Esperanza
60 DeFever
Seattle/Dallas

The same as you would use for nylon.  7:1 or more if conditions are bad.
Not talking about lunch hooks here are we?

Jim

"D Sorensen" donaergo@worldnet.att.net
At 07:48 PM 1/8/04 -0600, you wrote:

The "proper scope" is what works. The tables included in so many books are
just guidelines and there is plenty of documentation to support the notion
that in deep water, say more than 60 feet or so and especially using all
chain that the scope guidelines are overly generous and can be shortened
significantly, as noted above.

I once had a near fist fight with a crew member who was convinced that more
scope was necessary or the boat and our lives would be in mortal danger.
This was in the Anchor Bay anchorage 15 miles south of Pt. Arena, Calif.
The bottom is hard sand and slopes off from 40 feet down towards 80 feet in
a distance of about 400 feet. During the dark, we dropped the anchor in
about 45 feet with about 4 to one scope, using all chain. When the boat
settled we were in about 70 feet of water. The wind was blowing about 35
knots over our bow and it was not practical to pick up the anchor and due
to a jam we could not let out more scope. Since I had anchored a number of
times in this spot and found that the holding was excellent and short
scopes as little as 3 to one would work at these wind speeds, I was not
overly concerned. In addition there was no one else in the anchorage, it
being September, there was no one to drag down on, even if that were to
happen. The nearest rocks were about 1000 feet downwind. We set an anchor
alarm on the GPS and had a good sleep.

The argument was over the fact that I had not paid out 300 feet of chain
and was violating the "proper scope" rules. So, it came down to a test of
wills as to who was right. I would not allow further changes because of the
risk of injury, which was immediate. Whereas, the risk of dragging was not
and might never come about. And in fact it did not.

We would have been risking limb, if not life, attempting to re-anchor in
the dark and wind. The odds of dragging were low and the risks of picking
up were higher and had a real element of someone getting seriously injured,
which we would have been difficult to treat under the circumstances. Any
anchoring operation has some risk of injury and any attempt to do so or to
shift the anchorage should have the risks very carefully considered. I have
seen several near serious accidents because someone got hasty about not
having complied with the "proper scope" rules, thinking the problem had to
be fixed right away.

The character of the bottom in which the anchor will rest, it's
composition, source of materials and depth tend to be different all over
the world. What you set the hook in has more impact on how much scope you
will need than almost any other consideration. The scope guidelines are
just that, guidelines. Anchoring is art, science is just the methods for
evaluating the possibilities of scope, anchor design, bottom composition,
configuration and depth.

Bottom composition varies from solid rock, sand, mud, clay, volcanic ash,
gravel, pebbles, boulders, weeds, coral and many other materials and
combinations thereof.

There is a lot to learn.

Mike

Capt. Mike Maurice
Wilsonville, Oregon (Portland)