TWL: Re: Thanksgiving dinner
In a message dated 9/29/03 12:03:45 AM,
trawler-world-list-request@lists.samurai.com writes:
<< " I've read a story once about some people on the military airport that
have killed a rabbit in the nearby field (200-300m) by using an airplane radar.
They simply pointed the radar on the poor rabbit and cooked him instantly! At
first, I didn't believe the story, but when I thought about it scientifically
(since I'm a student of electrical engineering here in Belgrade :-), I' ve
changed my mind. Just imagine something that is about hundred times more powerful
than a MW oven and has focused beam pointed into that rabbit. What do you
think that would happened?"
More years ago than I like to remember, I was working at MIT's Lincoln Labs
and often visited Hanscom Field, the site of the Millstone Hill million watt
steerable radar array. That's the one that bounced radar signals off the moon. A
goose migration path was nearby and the dream of one of the technicians was
to catch a goose in the beam of the radar and cook it before it hit the ground.
Now if he could only get it to land in a vat of cranberry dressing being
made by one of the Ocean Spray processing plants nearby, it would have simplified
preparation of Thanksgiving dinner.
Larry Z
Hello All,
When I was in the USAF my buddies and I would put brillo pads on a stick and
place them next to certain transmit antennas. They would go bright red and
flash into flame. We could also wave fluorescent bulbs around in the RF
field and they would glow brightly. Sort of the Strategic Air Commands
version of Darth Vader in fatigues.
We're intensely interested in the Camano Troll, having made our mind up this
weekend after a demo ride and extensive Q & A session that it's the perfect
boat for Claudette and I. Guess where the factory radome mounting bracket
sits, right in front of the flybridge - GROAN! I want to send Arild down to
the factory with a stick so he can beat some sense into those people. What
a stupid oversight.
An engineer who obviously knew something about RF and ionizing radiation
owned the boat we saw. He had a custom mast built at the rear of the
flybridge deck that placed the radome about 9' above the deck. Much better
than the factory layout since you could be up on the bridge with the radar
operating. No way would I stand up there with the dome mounted at crotch
level. Of course, maybe that's how BC keeps the birth rate so low. <G>
Best Regards to All,
Frank & Claudette Weismantel
Elverta, CA
Boatless for a little while longer
-----Original Message-----
From: trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of
LRZeitlin@aol.com
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 8:30 AM
To: trawler-world-list@lists.samurai.com
Subject: TWL: Re: Thanksgiving dinner
Btw, what is the proven impact of RF and ionizing radiation on human beings?
Is there an simple test to check radiations, except exposing ourselves,
before it's too late?
Ben
An engineer who obviously knew something about RF and ionizing radiation
owned the boat we saw. He had a custom mast built at the rear of the
flybridge deck that placed the radome about 9' above the deck. Much better
than the factory layout since you could be up on the bridge with the radar
operating. No way would I stand up there with the dome mounted at crotch
level. Of course, maybe that's how BC keeps the birth rate so low. <G>
Hi Ben,
The single most referenced study came from the early seventies and utilized
airline pilots as test monkeys. The study focused on cataracts but there
was a statistically significant increase in various cancers. Since then
many studies have proven the cataract link but the cancer link remains
nebulous, primarily due to the enormous variety of cancers the body is
subject to. It's hard to prove a link when you're herding too many
statistical cats. The best source for electromagnetic exposure study
information that is actually readable comes from the World Health
Organization website. They have an enormous body of information on the
subject, much of it in laymen's terms with clear and concise illustrations.
Ionizing radiation is generally considered to be above 300MHz or so. The
heating effect is exactly the same as that of a microwave oven in that the
RF excites the water molecules in cellular structures, generating heat.
You can rent RF Field strength meters and various exposure tags (one
reliable manufacturer is NARDA Microwave) but the simple rule of thumb is to
keep outta the beam. Just a 3' (every additional foot of separation helps,
as well) difference in height between your head and the bottom of the radome
is enough to minimize your exposure. Fiberglass, be it the roof of the
pilothouse of the front wall of a flybridge is essentially transparent to RF
and cannot protect you. Just a little distance makes an enormous difference
in your exposure levels. You could be receiving +50 dBm directly in front
of a given radar antenna but would only be subject to -30 dBm or less just a
few feet below.
Something to think about...
Best Regards to All,
Frank & Claudette Weismantel
Elverta, CA
Boatless for a little while longer
-----Original Message-----
From: trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of bv
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:22 PM
To: Service@CFX Marine.Com; Trawler World List
Subject: TWL: RF and ionizing radiation (was Thanksgiving dinner)
Btw, what is the proven impact of RF and ionizing radiation on human beings?
Is there an simple test to check radiations, except exposing ourselves,
before it's too late?
Ben
An engineer who obviously knew something about RF and ionizing radiation
owned the boat we saw. He had a custom mast built at the rear of the
flybridge deck that placed the radome about 9' above the deck. Much
better
than the factory layout since you could be up on the bridge with the radar
operating. No way would I stand up there with the dome mounted at crotch
level. Of course, maybe that's how BC keeps the birth rate so low. <G>
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-----Original Message-----
Ben wrote:
Btw, what is the proven impact of RF and ionizing radiation on human beings?
Is there an simple test to check radiations, except exposing ourselves,
before it's too late?
REPLY
It depends!
If you talk to the public safety advocates concerning microwave oven radiation,
they will tell you that if the metallic seal on the doors must be intact or
the consumer risks injury.
Last time this topic was broached on the list several people tried to get a
definitive answer from the radar manufacturers
It was no big surprise that none of them came out with anything useful.
If you listen to any of the radar manufactures, it is safe to stand in front of
the radars.
Same thing on the subject of power company workers being exposed to long term
exposure magnetic fields around power cables.
If you find an authority willing to publicly state so and such is dangerous the
manufactures will find an expert to refute the data.
If the manufactures publish data indicating it is safe to be exposed to
consumer radars, some public safety advocacy group will provide an expert to
refute that.
When I was working as a radar installer, I found myself sensitive to a
operating 1.5 Kw radar at ten feet after as little as ten minutes.
I would develop an intense headache. Hardly surprising since the eyes and brain
is soft tissue with high water content.
Place an egg in the microwave and turn it on. See what happens. Draw your own
conclusions.
Cheers
Arild
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Arild Jensen wrote:
Place an egg in the microwave and turn it on. See what happens. Draw
your own conclusions.
Make sure you have plenty of cleaning supplies if you try this
experiment! It will not be a pretty sight. Don't ask how I know.
When I was working as a radar installer, I found myself sensitive to a
operating 1.5 Kw radar at ten feet after as little as ten minutes.
I would develop an intense headache. Hardly surprising since the eyes and
brain
is soft tissue with high water content.
Place an egg in the microwave and turn it on. See what happens. Draw your
own
conclusions.
Cheers
Arild
Well about 6 months ago there were some ants feeding on residue in our
microwave oven. I don't know where they could get in but I decided the easy
way to fix them was to nuke them. I put in half a cup of water so I didn't
blow the snot out of the magnetron and fired it up.
NOTHING HAPPENED.
The ants continued to munch on the goodies, and move around as if nothing
had happened.
I must admit that since then they have been eating holes through my concrete
driveway but I guess I've only got myself to blame.
Andina Foster,
tech@yandina.com
" Well about 6 months ago there were some ants feeding on residue in our
microwave oven. I don't know where they could get in but I decided the easy
way to fix them was to nuke them."
Note to all: If you stop by Andina's boat, pass on the snacks.
Todd
Portland, OR
" Well about 6 months ago there were some ants feeding on residue in our
microwave oven. I don't know where they could get in but I decided the
easy
way to fix them was to nuke them."
Note to all: If you stop by Andina's boat, pass on the snacks.
Todd
Portland, OR
It so happens that the little black ants, about 1/8" have a perfect
imitation taste of Roquefort Cheese.
You can add them to plain yoghurt for a delightful salad dressing.
They stay fresh on your boat until you're ready to harvest and take up no
space.
Don't ask how I know. :o)
Andina Foster,
tech@yandina.com
<< " I've read a story once about some people on the military airport that
have killed a rabbit in the nearby field (200-300m) by using an airplane
radar.
They simply pointed the radar on the poor rabbit and cooked him instantly!
I often see folks with their radar on at fuel docks, in marinas with the
radar aiming right at their neighbors, at close range. Some smaller speed
boats will allow a person to stand on the forward deck, right in front of
their radar.
I've tried to suggest they turn off their radar in these situations,
especially if some guy is zapping his kids, but usually I get a Huh?? on the
radio.
Ted Grave
DeFever 44, Amici
Branford, CT