SW
Skip Withrow
Wed, Jan 24, 2024 4:00 PM
Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco Jan. 27 -
Feb. 1.
They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but have two things
of particular interest to time-nuts.
-
Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package. Pretty
limited production at this point, but something to watch. I think there is
another company in CA working on a similar product.
-
desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but suitable for
draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and empower the
workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform — Infleqtion
https://www.infleqtion.com/desqtopmot
Regards,
Skip Withrow
Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco Jan. 27 -
Feb. 1.
They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but have two things
of particular interest to time-nuts.
1. Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package. Pretty
limited production at this point, but something to watch. I think there is
another company in CA working on a similar product.
2. desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but suitable for
draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and empower the
workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform — Infleqtion
<https://www.infleqtion.com/desqtopmot>
Regards,
Skip Withrow
PS
paul swed
Wed, Jan 24, 2024 11:13 PM
Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure looks like
some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure modes and
the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old cesiums I
have.
Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life of the
units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
Not very scientific but a fun fact.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco Jan. 27 -
Feb. 1.
They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but have two things
of particular interest to time-nuts.
-
Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package. Pretty
limited production at this point, but something to watch. I think there is
another company in CA working on a similar product.
-
desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but suitable for
draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and empower the
workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform — Infleqtion
https://www.infleqtion.com/desqtopmot
Regards,
Skip Withrow
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure looks like
some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure modes and
the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old cesiums I
have.
Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life of the
units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
Not very scientific but a fun fact.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
> Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco Jan. 27 -
> Feb. 1.
> They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but have two things
> of particular interest to time-nuts.
> 1. Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package. Pretty
> limited production at this point, but something to watch. I think there is
> another company in CA working on a similar product.
>
> 2. desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but suitable for
> draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and empower the
> workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform — Infleqtion
> <https://www.infleqtion.com/desqtopmot>
>
> Regards,
> Skip Withrow
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
MD
Magnus Danielson
Wed, Jan 24, 2024 11:23 PM
Paul,
When I did the NIST Time and Frequency Seminars, one of the lab evens
was the MOT. It was really instructive and fun to get the cooling going,
and we where able to cool both Rb-87 and Rb-85. Looking at a spot and
realize it is really really cool atoms is cool. Only time that was
surpassed, was when I saw the cool atoms in NPLs cesium fountain, as
these are among the few that contribute to actual TAI.
Having a MOT is tempting. However, I may need to consider my priorities.
I mean, what gear get's thrown out???
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 00:13, paul swed via time-nuts wrote:
Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure looks like
some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure modes and
the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old cesiums I
have.
Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life of the
units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
Not very scientific but a fun fact.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco Jan. 27 -
Feb. 1.
They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but have two things
of particular interest to time-nuts.
-
Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package. Pretty
limited production at this point, but something to watch. I think there is
another company in CA working on a similar product.
-
desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but suitable for
draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and empower the
workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform — Infleqtion
https://www.infleqtion.com/desqtopmot
Regards,
Skip Withrow
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Paul,
When I did the NIST Time and Frequency Seminars, one of the lab evens
was the MOT. It was really instructive and fun to get the cooling going,
and we where able to cool both Rb-87 and Rb-85. Looking at a spot and
realize it is really really cool atoms is cool. Only time that was
surpassed, was when I saw the cool atoms in NPLs cesium fountain, as
these are among the few that contribute to actual TAI.
Having a MOT is tempting. However, I may need to consider my priorities.
I mean, what gear get's thrown out???
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 00:13, paul swed via time-nuts wrote:
> Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure looks like
> some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
> In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure modes and
> the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old cesiums I
> have.
> Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life of the
> units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
> But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
> Not very scientific but a fun fact.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
>> Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco Jan. 27 -
>> Feb. 1.
>> They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but have two things
>> of particular interest to time-nuts.
>> 1. Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package. Pretty
>> limited production at this point, but something to watch. I think there is
>> another company in CA working on a similar product.
>>
>> 2. desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but suitable for
>> draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and empower the
>> workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform — Infleqtion
>> <https://www.infleqtion.com/desqtopmot>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
PS
paul swed
Thu, Jan 25, 2024 1:57 PM
Very curious. If you can visually see the process of cooling, would the
line or dot become more tightly bunched as it cooled?
Regards
Paul
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 8:05 AM Magnus Danielson via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Paul,
When I did the NIST Time and Frequency Seminars, one of the lab evens
was the MOT. It was really instructive and fun to get the cooling going,
and we where able to cool both Rb-87 and Rb-85. Looking at a spot and
realize it is really really cool atoms is cool. Only time that was
surpassed, was when I saw the cool atoms in NPLs cesium fountain, as
these are among the few that contribute to actual TAI.
Having a MOT is tempting. However, I may need to consider my priorities.
I mean, what gear get's thrown out???
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 00:13, paul swed via time-nuts wrote:
Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure looks like
some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure modes
the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old cesiums I
have.
Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life of the
units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
Not very scientific but a fun fact.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco Jan. 27
Feb. 1.
They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but have two
of particular interest to time-nuts.
- Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package. Pretty
limited production at this point, but something to watch. I think
another company in CA working on a similar product.
- desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but suitable
draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and empower
workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform —
Very curious. If you can visually see the process of cooling, would the
line or dot become more tightly bunched as it cooled?
Regards
Paul
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 8:05 AM Magnus Danielson via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> When I did the NIST Time and Frequency Seminars, one of the lab evens
> was the MOT. It was really instructive and fun to get the cooling going,
> and we where able to cool both Rb-87 and Rb-85. Looking at a spot and
> realize it is really really cool atoms is cool. Only time that was
> surpassed, was when I saw the cool atoms in NPLs cesium fountain, as
> these are among the few that contribute to actual TAI.
>
> Having a MOT is tempting. However, I may need to consider my priorities.
> I mean, what gear get's thrown out???
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 2024-01-25 00:13, paul swed via time-nuts wrote:
> > Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure looks like
> > some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
> > In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure modes
> and
> > the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old cesiums I
> > have.
> > Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life of the
> > units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
> > But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
> > Not very scientific but a fun fact.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
> > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco Jan. 27
> -
> >> Feb. 1.
> >> They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but have two
> things
> >> of particular interest to time-nuts.
> >> 1. Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package. Pretty
> >> limited production at this point, but something to watch. I think
> there is
> >> another company in CA working on a similar product.
> >>
> >> 2. desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but suitable
> for
> >> draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and empower
> the
> >> workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform —
> Infleqtion
> >> <https://www.infleqtion.com/desqtopmot>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Skip Withrow
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
MD
Magnus Danielson
Thu, Jan 25, 2024 2:56 PM
Well, as I recall it, you don't see it in visual wavelengths, so you use
a scope to view it, and what happens is that a dot becomes formed "in
thin air" (vacuum with some rubidium gas). Since it is fairly small, you
don't really preceive shape but more intensity as more atoms stay at the
same place.
At least my eyes isn't sharp enough to make out single atoms, despite
being fairly near-sighted. :)
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 14:57, paul swed wrote:
Very curious. If you can visually see the process of cooling, would
the line or dot become more tightly bunched as it cooled?
Regards
Paul
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 8:05 AM Magnus Danielson via time-nuts
time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
Paul,
When I did the NIST Time and Frequency Seminars, one of the lab evens
was the MOT. It was really instructive and fun to get the cooling
going,
and we where able to cool both Rb-87 and Rb-85. Looking at a spot and
realize it is really really cool atoms is cool. Only time that was
surpassed, was when I saw the cool atoms in NPLs cesium fountain, as
these are among the few that contribute to actual TAI.
Having a MOT is tempting. However, I may need to consider my
priorities.
I mean, what gear get's thrown out???
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 00:13, paul swed via time-nuts wrote:
> Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure
looks like
> some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
> In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure
modes and
> the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old
cesiums I
> have.
> Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life
of the
> units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
> But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
> Not very scientific but a fun fact.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
>> Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco
Jan. 27 -
>> Feb. 1.
>> They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but
have two things
>> of particular interest to time-nuts.
>> 1. Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package.
Pretty
>> limited production at this point, but something to watch. I
think there is
>> another company in CA working on a similar product.
>>
>> 2. desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but
suitable for
>> draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and
empower the
>> workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform —
Infleqtion
>> <https://www.infleqtion.com/desqtopmot>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Well, as I recall it, you don't see it in visual wavelengths, so you use
a scope to view it, and what happens is that a dot becomes formed "in
thin air" (vacuum with some rubidium gas). Since it is fairly small, you
don't really preceive shape but more intensity as more atoms stay at the
same place.
At least my eyes isn't sharp enough to make out single atoms, despite
being fairly near-sighted. :)
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 14:57, paul swed wrote:
> Very curious. If you can visually see the process of cooling, would
> the line or dot become more tightly bunched as it cooled?
> Regards
> Paul
>
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 8:05 AM Magnus Danielson via time-nuts
> <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> When I did the NIST Time and Frequency Seminars, one of the lab evens
> was the MOT. It was really instructive and fun to get the cooling
> going,
> and we where able to cool both Rb-87 and Rb-85. Looking at a spot and
> realize it is really really cool atoms is cool. Only time that was
> surpassed, was when I saw the cool atoms in NPLs cesium fountain, as
> these are among the few that contribute to actual TAI.
>
> Having a MOT is tempting. However, I may need to consider my
> priorities.
> I mean, what gear get's thrown out???
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 2024-01-25 00:13, paul swed via time-nuts wrote:
> > Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure
> looks like
> > some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
> > In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure
> modes and
> > the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old
> cesiums I
> > have.
> > Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life
> of the
> > units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
> > But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
> > Not very scientific but a fun fact.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
> > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco
> Jan. 27 -
> >> Feb. 1.
> >> They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but
> have two things
> >> of particular interest to time-nuts.
> >> 1. Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package.
> Pretty
> >> limited production at this point, but something to watch. I
> think there is
> >> another company in CA working on a similar product.
> >>
> >> 2. desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but
> suitable for
> >> draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and
> empower the
> >> workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform —
> Infleqtion
> >> <https://www.infleqtion.com/desqtopmot>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Skip Withrow
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
>
EM
Ed Marciniak
Fri, Jan 26, 2024 2:15 PM
Sadly, my junk box doesn’t include a stabilized external cavity diode laser suitable for these sorts of adventures. I do like the idea of using tilt lock instead of Pound-Drever-Hall for frequency stabilization. The optical detector pair, with appropriate loop filters could directly drive a PZT positioner and modulate diode current, skipping the lock in amplifier and other parts. The pesky little problem for the intended use is some is my junk box lacks a few higher dollar items like a zero order littrow (gold coated master) grating blazed for the 780-800nm range, an etalon with coatings suitable for 800nm instead of 500nm, and an optical isolator. I'm also lacking a small machine shop.
I'm going out on a limb guessing I'd want a really narrow linewidth, perhaps less than 10 kilohertz along with about 1-10mW output power, and reasonably low AM noise.
Am I close on the hard part?
Would the principal gains be boosting the signal to noise ratio(increasing accuracy), and reduced light shift(from running light source at rather than offset from resonance)? Would you also benefit from not needing a separate filter cell or accepting the performance loss of a single cell with a carefully chosen gas and isotope mix?
Might there be any advantages to two stabilized lasers and detecting the beat note directly at 6.8 or 9.7 GHz to discipline the 10MHz output with an inverse PLL?
Does the whole problem deserve another look using 405-412 nm blue laser diodes, or even a different alkali atom choice as a result of not needing a fortuitous natural isotopic filter being available?
Is a passive or active maser possible?
From: Magnus Danielson via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2024 8:56:18 AM
To: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.se
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Want to build your own optical clock?
Well, as I recall it, you don't see it in visual wavelengths, so you use
a scope to view it, and what happens is that a dot becomes formed "in
thin air" (vacuum with some rubidium gas). Since it is fairly small, you
don't really preceive shape but more intensity as more atoms stay at the
same place.
At least my eyes isn't sharp enough to make out single atoms, despite
being fairly near-sighted. :)
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 14:57, paul swed wrote:
Very curious. If you can visually see the process of cooling, would
the line or dot become more tightly bunched as it cooled?
Regards
Paul
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 8:05 AM Magnus Danielson via time-nuts
time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
Paul,
When I did the NIST Time and Frequency Seminars, one of the lab evens
was the MOT. It was really instructive and fun to get the cooling
going,
and we where able to cool both Rb-87 and Rb-85. Looking at a spot and
realize it is really really cool atoms is cool. Only time that was
surpassed, was when I saw the cool atoms in NPLs cesium fountain, as
these are among the few that contribute to actual TAI.
Having a MOT is tempting. However, I may need to consider my
priorities.
I mean, what gear get's thrown out???
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 00:13, paul swed via time-nuts wrote:
Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure
some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure
the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old
have.
Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life
units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
Not very scientific but a fun fact.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco
Feb. 1.
They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but
of particular interest to time-nuts.
- Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package.
limited production at this point, but something to watch. I
another company in CA working on a similar product.
- desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but
draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and
workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform —
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Sadly, my junk box doesn’t include a stabilized external cavity diode laser suitable for these sorts of adventures. I do like the idea of using tilt lock instead of Pound-Drever-Hall for frequency stabilization. The optical detector pair, with appropriate loop filters could directly drive a PZT positioner and modulate diode current, skipping the lock in amplifier and other parts. The pesky little problem for the intended use is some is my junk box lacks a few higher dollar items like a zero order littrow (gold coated master) grating blazed for the 780-800nm range, an etalon with coatings suitable for 800nm instead of 500nm, and an optical isolator. I'm also lacking a small machine shop.
I'm going out on a limb guessing I'd want a really narrow linewidth, perhaps less than 10 kilohertz along with about 1-10mW output power, and reasonably low AM noise.
Am I close on the hard part?
Would the principal gains be boosting the signal to noise ratio(increasing accuracy), and reduced light shift(from running light source at rather than offset from resonance)? Would you also benefit from not needing a separate filter cell or accepting the performance loss of a single cell with a carefully chosen gas and isotope mix?
Might there be any advantages to two stabilized lasers and detecting the beat note directly at 6.8 or 9.7 GHz to discipline the 10MHz output with an inverse PLL?
Does the whole problem deserve another look using 405-412 nm blue laser diodes, or even a different alkali atom choice as a result of not needing a fortuitous natural isotopic filter being available?
Is a passive or active maser possible?
________________________________
From: Magnus Danielson via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2024 8:56:18 AM
To: paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com>; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
Cc: Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.se>
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Want to build your own optical clock?
Well, as I recall it, you don't see it in visual wavelengths, so you use
a scope to view it, and what happens is that a dot becomes formed "in
thin air" (vacuum with some rubidium gas). Since it is fairly small, you
don't really preceive shape but more intensity as more atoms stay at the
same place.
At least my eyes isn't sharp enough to make out single atoms, despite
being fairly near-sighted. :)
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 14:57, paul swed wrote:
> Very curious. If you can visually see the process of cooling, would
> the line or dot become more tightly bunched as it cooled?
> Regards
> Paul
>
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 8:05 AM Magnus Danielson via time-nuts
> <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> When I did the NIST Time and Frequency Seminars, one of the lab evens
> was the MOT. It was really instructive and fun to get the cooling
> going,
> and we where able to cool both Rb-87 and Rb-85. Looking at a spot and
> realize it is really really cool atoms is cool. Only time that was
> surpassed, was when I saw the cool atoms in NPLs cesium fountain, as
> these are among the few that contribute to actual TAI.
>
> Having a MOT is tempting. However, I may need to consider my
> priorities.
> I mean, what gear get's thrown out???
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 2024-01-25 00:13, paul swed via time-nuts wrote:
> > Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure
> looks like
> > some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
> > In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure
> modes and
> > the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old
> cesiums I
> > have.
> > Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life
> of the
> > units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
> > But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
> > Not very scientific but a fun fact.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
> > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco
> Jan. 27 -
> >> Feb. 1.
> >> They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but
> have two things
> >> of particular interest to time-nuts.
> >> 1. Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package.
> Pretty
> >> limited production at this point, but something to watch. I
> think there is
> >> another company in CA working on a similar product.
> >>
> >> 2. desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but
> suitable for
> >> draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and
> empower the
> >> workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform —
> Infleqtion
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.infleqtion.com_desqtopmot&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=JsDsKeR7cZC8wbZhIlxxBQ&m=grfujnn45v84byeOnHukN2pQgBehKvHgT8wBGuqiKrz-HEhCPg_vY-k8VrbT4Lcp&s=TQBJM5ZxhqfkHEPWKHPD3BZjb8YfYNiv_E4uMwDzveg&e=>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Skip Withrow
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
>
_______________________________________________
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BC
Bob Camp
Fri, Jan 26, 2024 9:46 PM
On Jan 26, 2024, at 9:15 AM, Ed Marciniak via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
Sadly, my junk box doesn’t include a stabilized external cavity diode laser suitable for these sorts of adventures. I do like the idea of using tilt lock instead of Pound-Drever-Hall for frequency stabilization. The optical detector pair, with appropriate loop filters could directly drive a PZT positioner and modulate diode current, skipping the lock in amplifier and other parts. The pesky little problem for the intended use is some is my junk box lacks a few higher dollar items like a zero order littrow (gold coated master) grating blazed for the 780-800nm range, an etalon with coatings suitable for 800nm instead of 500nm, and an optical isolator. I'm also lacking a small machine shop.
I'm going out on a limb guessing I'd want a really narrow linewidth, perhaps less than 10 kilohertz along with about 1-10mW output power, and reasonably low AM noise.
Am I close on the hard part?
Would the principal gains be boosting the signal to noise ratio(increasing accuracy), and reduced light shift(from running light source at rather than offset from resonance)? Would you also benefit from not needing a separate filter cell or accepting the performance loss of a single cell with a carefully chosen gas and isotope mix?
Might there be any advantages to two stabilized lasers and detecting the beat note directly at 6.8 or 9.7 GHz to discipline the 10MHz output with an inverse PLL?
Does the whole problem deserve another look using 405-412 nm blue laser diodes, or even a different alkali atom choice as a result of not needing a fortuitous natural isotopic filter being available?
Is a passive or active maser possible?
Sure is. Modern ones have ceramic cavities. How are your pottery skills? :)
Bob
From: Magnus Danielson via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2024 8:56:18 AM
To: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.se
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Want to build your own optical clock?
Well, as I recall it, you don't see it in visual wavelengths, so you use
a scope to view it, and what happens is that a dot becomes formed "in
thin air" (vacuum with some rubidium gas). Since it is fairly small, you
don't really preceive shape but more intensity as more atoms stay at the
same place.
At least my eyes isn't sharp enough to make out single atoms, despite
being fairly near-sighted. :)
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 14:57, paul swed wrote:
Very curious. If you can visually see the process of cooling, would
the line or dot become more tightly bunched as it cooled?
Regards
Paul
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 8:05 AM Magnus Danielson via time-nuts
time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
Paul,
When I did the NIST Time and Frequency Seminars, one of the lab evens
was the MOT. It was really instructive and fun to get the cooling
going,
and we where able to cool both Rb-87 and Rb-85. Looking at a spot and
realize it is really really cool atoms is cool. Only time that was
surpassed, was when I saw the cool atoms in NPLs cesium fountain, as
these are among the few that contribute to actual TAI.
Having a MOT is tempting. However, I may need to consider my
priorities.
I mean, what gear get's thrown out???
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-25 00:13, paul swed via time-nuts wrote:
Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure
some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure
the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old
have.
Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life
units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
Not very scientific but a fun fact.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco
Feb. 1.
They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but
of particular interest to time-nuts.
- Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package.
limited production at this point, but something to watch. I
another company in CA working on a similar product.
- desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but
draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and
workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform —
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Hi
> On Jan 26, 2024, at 9:15 AM, Ed Marciniak via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> Sadly, my junk box doesn’t include a stabilized external cavity diode laser suitable for these sorts of adventures. I do like the idea of using tilt lock instead of Pound-Drever-Hall for frequency stabilization. The optical detector pair, with appropriate loop filters could directly drive a PZT positioner and modulate diode current, skipping the lock in amplifier and other parts. The pesky little problem for the intended use is some is my junk box lacks a few higher dollar items like a zero order littrow (gold coated master) grating blazed for the 780-800nm range, an etalon with coatings suitable for 800nm instead of 500nm, and an optical isolator. I'm also lacking a small machine shop.
>
> I'm going out on a limb guessing I'd want a really narrow linewidth, perhaps less than 10 kilohertz along with about 1-10mW output power, and reasonably low AM noise.
>
> Am I close on the hard part?
>
> Would the principal gains be boosting the signal to noise ratio(increasing accuracy), and reduced light shift(from running light source at rather than offset from resonance)? Would you also benefit from not needing a separate filter cell or accepting the performance loss of a single cell with a carefully chosen gas and isotope mix?
>
> Might there be any advantages to two stabilized lasers and detecting the beat note directly at 6.8 or 9.7 GHz to discipline the 10MHz output with an inverse PLL?
>
> Does the whole problem deserve another look using 405-412 nm blue laser diodes, or even a different alkali atom choice as a result of not needing a fortuitous natural isotopic filter being available?
>
> Is a passive or active maser possible?
Sure is. Modern ones have ceramic cavities. How are your pottery skills? :)
Bob
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Magnus Danielson via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2024 8:56:18 AM
> To: paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com>; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
> Cc: Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.se>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Want to build your own optical clock?
>
> Well, as I recall it, you don't see it in visual wavelengths, so you use
> a scope to view it, and what happens is that a dot becomes formed "in
> thin air" (vacuum with some rubidium gas). Since it is fairly small, you
> don't really preceive shape but more intensity as more atoms stay at the
> same place.
>
> At least my eyes isn't sharp enough to make out single atoms, despite
> being fairly near-sighted. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 2024-01-25 14:57, paul swed wrote:
>> Very curious. If you can visually see the process of cooling, would
>> the line or dot become more tightly bunched as it cooled?
>> Regards
>> Paul
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 8:05 AM Magnus Danielson via time-nuts
>> <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> When I did the NIST Time and Frequency Seminars, one of the lab evens
>> was the MOT. It was really instructive and fun to get the cooling
>> going,
>> and we where able to cool both Rb-87 and Rb-85. Looking at a spot and
>> realize it is really really cool atoms is cool. Only time that was
>> surpassed, was when I saw the cool atoms in NPLs cesium fountain, as
>> these are among the few that contribute to actual TAI.
>>
>> Having a MOT is tempting. However, I may need to consider my
>> priorities.
>> I mean, what gear get's thrown out???
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus
>>
>> On 2024-01-25 00:13, paul swed via time-nuts wrote:
>>> Skip it was interesting to take a look at what you sent. Sure
>> looks like
>>> some students are going to have fun with cold atoms.
>>> In some of the earlier threads there was a discussion on failure
>> modes and
>>> the laser was most likely. This had me thinking about the old
>> cesiums I
>>> have.
>>> Assuming they are on average 40 years old, then the current life
>> of the
>>> units are some 350,000 hours. Granted I don't run them 24 X 7.
>>> But it at least sets a number to what we are used to at some level.
>>> Not very scientific but a fun fact.
>>> Regards
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:47 PM Skip Withrow via time-nuts <
>>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Infleqtion will have a booth at Photonics West in San Francisco
>> Jan. 27 -
>>>> Feb. 1.
>>>> They are working on all kinds of quantum physics stuff, but
>> have two things
>>>> of particular interest to time-nuts.
>>>> 1. Tiqker - A Rb cold atom clock in a 3U rack mount package.
>> Pretty
>>>> limited production at this point, but something to watch. I
>> think there is
>>>> another company in CA working on a similar product.
>>>>
>>>> 2. desqtopMOT - geared towards educational institutions, but
>> suitable for
>>>> draining your bank account and free time. Explore, educate, and
>> empower the
>>>> workforce of tomorrow with the desqtopMOT cold atom platform —
>> Infleqtion
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.infleqtion.com_desqtopmot&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=JsDsKeR7cZC8wbZhIlxxBQ&m=grfujnn45v84byeOnHukN2pQgBehKvHgT8wBGuqiKrz-HEhCPg_vY-k8VrbT4Lcp&s=TQBJM5ZxhqfkHEPWKHPD3BZjb8YfYNiv_E4uMwDzveg&e=>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Skip Withrow
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
PK
Poul-Henning Kamp
Sat, Jan 27, 2024 1:57 PM
Bob Camp via time-nuts writes:
I do like the idea of using tilt lock instead of Pound-Drever-Hall
for frequency stabilization.
Rattling around in the back of my head, is the question if one can
use the same "modulation" technique for optical clocks, as is used
in Mößbauer Spectroscopy.
In Mößbauer Spectroscopy the problem is to frequency modulate
gamma-rays a in a very narrow band around their natural frequency,
and the solution is to physically move the source forth and
back a few millimeter with a speed on the order of cm/s.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Bob Camp via time-nuts writes:
> I do like the idea of using tilt lock instead of Pound-Drever-Hall
> for frequency stabilization.
Rattling around in the back of my head, is the question if one can
use the same "modulation" technique for optical clocks, as is used
in Mößbauer Spectroscopy.
In Mößbauer Spectroscopy the problem is to frequency modulate
gamma-rays a in a very narrow band around their natural frequency,
and the solution is to physically move the source forth and
back a few millimeter with a speed on the order of cm/s.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
