Rich:

I know that you are pretty savvy and have looked at the obvious sources
of water intrusion from a cracked head or a blown head gasket, and
Garret's probably pretty close to naming a cause. I also know that you
have a high temp warning system and would not push the engine to the
point where either of these took place. So what to look for?

Using the age of the boat, the engines, and the type of installation, I
went to Calder (Marine Diesel Engines) to see if I could find anything to
add to this thread. Also, I don't know if you have a salt water or a
fresh water problem. I'm not sure I could tell the difference, nor would
I want to taste for it!

Calder says that "appreciable quantities can only come from the cooling
system," and that limits your choices to: water siphoning in through the
exhaust valves from a faulty water-cooled exhaust installation, leaks
around injector sleeves, a leaking cylinder head gasket or cracked head
(already mentioned) a cracked cylinder liner, or a liner with a pinhole
caused by corrosion from the water-jacket side (have you changed your
zincs faithfully?), a leaking O-ring seal at the base of a wet liner, or
corrosion in an oil cooler.

I think you mention a high sodium content from your last oil analysis,
and if so, this would lend credence to the oil cooler problem. The
cooling tubes on oil coolers are especially prone to failure if they have
salt water cooling. With salt water, you would also see some evidence of
the failure in the exhaust water, as well as salt water in the crankcase.
If the oil cooler uses fresh water, then a failure should also show some
oil sheen in the fresh water header expansion tank.

Back again to the sodium and the failed exhaust theory is a pretty common
culprit???

Finally, Calder mentions a commonly-overlooked occurrence, mistaken for a
water leak into the engine. People that run their engines often, and do
not bring them up to operating temp, often find condensation evidence in
the valve cover - a gooey, creamy emulsification. Again, I doubt that you
would frequently run your engine, and not let it get to its proper
operating temperature.

Such a mystery! I'm curious to learn the answer because, very shortly
with my "new" boat, I may be in the same predicament myself.

Martin Veiner

Martin I. Veiner
1825 Bridgemont Trail
Tallahassee, FL 32312-3623
Tel: 850-907-9969
Email: veiner@hcsmail.com

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Thanks, Marty.  When do you get possession of the new one, and where will
you berth her?

So far, in conjunction with Brian for American Diesel, I have pulled the
exhaust elbow and replaced the gasket there.  It is the only thing holding
coolant in the engine's exhaust manifold.  He says if it was saltwater
getting in through the oil cooler, the oil would look emulsified (it did
not), but what really happens in these engines is that the oil pressure is
lots higher than the seawater pressure, and the oil gets pumped out the
exhaust with the seawater.  The interior shelf in the elbow, designed to
keep the seawater injected there form getting to the back end of the exhaust
manifold was intact.  I also pressure tested the fresh water side of the
system before removing anything, and it was OK - could be a problem that
only shows when the engine is hot (cracked head might do this).  All coolers
and heat exchanger are now at the local radiator shop for cleaning and
pressure testing (figured I might as well do it).

Plan now is reassemble Monday and put a few hours on the new oil/coolant
before oil sampling again.

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin I Veiner [mailto:veiner@juno.com]
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 6:35 AM
To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Cc: rgano@mantech-pc.com
Subject: Lehman trouble - coolant in lube oil

Rich:

I know that you are pretty savvy and have looked at the obvious sources
of water intrusion from a cracked head or a blown head gasket, and
Garret's probably pretty close to naming a cause. I also know that you
have a high temp warning system and would not push the engine to the
point where either of these took place. So what to look for?

Using the age of the boat, the engines, and the type of installation, I
went to Calder (Marine Diesel Engines) to see if I could find anything to
add to this thread. Also, I don't know if you have a salt water or a
fresh water problem. I'm not sure I could tell the difference, nor would
I want to taste for it!

Calder says that "appreciable quantities can only come from the cooling
system," and that limits your choices to: water siphoning in through the
exhaust valves from a faulty water-cooled exhaust installation, leaks
around injector sleeves, a leaking cylinder head gasket or cracked head
(already mentioned) a cracked cylinder liner, or a liner with a pinhole
caused by corrosion from the water-jacket side (have you changed your
zincs faithfully?), a leaking O-ring seal at the base of a wet liner, or
corrosion in an oil cooler.

I think you mention a high sodium content from your last oil analysis,
and if so, this would lend credence to the oil cooler problem. The
cooling tubes on oil coolers are especially prone to failure if they have
salt water cooling. With salt water, you would also see some evidence of
the failure in the exhaust water, as well as salt water in the crankcase.
If the oil cooler uses fresh water, then a failure should also show some
oil sheen in the fresh water header expansion tank.

Back again to the sodium and the failed exhaust theory is a pretty common
culprit???

Finally, Calder mentions a commonly-overlooked occurrence, mistaken for a
water leak into the engine. People that run their engines often, and do
not bring them up to operating temp, often find condensation evidence in
the valve cover - a gooey, creamy emulsification. Again, I doubt that you
would frequently run your engine, and not let it get to its proper
operating temperature.

Such a mystery! I'm curious to learn the answer because, very shortly
with my "new" boat, I may be in the same predicament myself.

Martin Veiner

Martin I. Veiner
1825 Bridgemont Trail
Tallahassee, FL 32312-3623
Tel: 850-907-9969
Email: veiner@hcsmail.com

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.