PPM Stability
I'll second that. This discussion has gone to the dogs! (sorry, Ron)
Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please? I care not
whether a PPM will emerge; it has been educational and entertaining reading the
thoughts and opinions of listees. Good to have this list active again!
Perhaps, when this subject is exhausted, it would be fun to pick a PPM from
a list of production boats. This, IMHO, should include those boats which are
no longer in production. I recall that years ago the Corbin 39 was picked as
the ideal world cruising sailboat for a couple; I think it was voted on by
the readership of Cruising World. Perhaps we could come up with a short list
and whittle away at it.
Regards,
John
"Seahorse"
George Buehler,
If I could get by all the passion and insults I'm sure you have something
good to say. Could you tone it down a little and share a little respect for
the others on this site ?
**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other
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Gentlemen and Gentlewomen,
I have been reading this list for a number of years. I do not yet have a passagemaker, but it is one of my dreams, its clear now that I have had that dream since my childhood after becoming fascinated with Jacques Cousteau, the Calypso and Sharks and Whales and wanting to spend my life doing marine research. Unfortunately the reality of making a living intruded and after spending a summer at the Mote Marine lab as an intern during college (degree in Zoology), I went on to a less adventurous but more financially secure career. I have found all of the discussions, viewpoints and opinions to be good reading and thoughtful, while sometimes a bit over the top; but that is life. You have each made me think and analyze what, how and why certain ideas or beliefs exist and how they might impact my decisions.
Please keep it up. I for one appreciate it and hope to some day join those of you who have and/or are doing it.
Fred Goldstein
Currently venturing near shore in Jacksonville Florida
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Truelove39@aol.com Truelove39@aol.com wrote:
From: Truelove39@aol.com Truelove39@aol.com
Subject: [PUP] PPM Stability
To: JohnPH@Comcast.net
Cc: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 7:04 AM
I'll second that. This discussion has gone to the dogs!
(sorry, Ron)
Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please?
I care not
whether a PPM will emerge; it has been educational and
entertaining reading the
thoughts and opinions of listees. Good to have this list
active again!
Perhaps, when this subject is exhausted, it would be fun to
pick a PPM from
a list of production boats. This, IMHO, should include
those boats which are
no longer in production. I recall that years ago the
Corbin 39 was picked as
the ideal world cruising sailboat for a couple; I think it
was voted on by
the readership of Cruising World. Perhaps we could come up
with a short list
and whittle away at it.
Regards,
John
"Seahorse"
George Buehler,
If I could get by all the passion and insults I'm
sure you have something
good to say. Could you tone it down a little and share a
little respect for
the others on this site ?
**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions,
recipes and all other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)
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Friends:
I would certainly agree with George and others that the idea of actually
designing a "perfect" passagemaker is a fruitless endeavor. We all do want
some idiosyncratic set of attributes for our "perfect" boat. That being said,
however, the lively discuss we have had going now for a couple of weeks has
succeeded in bringing out a great flowering of ideas from different people
about what they consider to be important and why. We all get the chance to
hear the opinions of others, weigh those opinions against our own
needs/desires and move on to the next post. It is truly not very helpful to
disparage one boat or another without some context as to what attributes are
bad or good. One boat may be a little bigger and have more engine room than
another boat, but it sits up much higher in the dock. What is more
important? Obviously there is no one answer to that question. But to listen
to those who have experience and preferences on the issue is
extremely informative. Just taking the Diesel Duck as a great example, a
number of people have commented on the fact that the galley is down and
doesn't have nice views. But for some people that trait is not as critical as
the other positive attributes of a DD. Now, from my perspective, it would be
great to hear from George about why he put the galley down, but I understand
the lure of the bird dogs.
I am definitely with Fred in his wish that we keep up this discussion and
appreciate Scott's ideas about some of the topics we might address. My wife,
Winifred (she is not the Admiral, incidently, but the Sea Goddess), by the way
is completely involved in our training, research, plans, and will be taking
her own independent training in a course just for women this year. Now, how
about a discussion about a full walk-around on a boat vs. just one side? How
much fuel do you need for blue water passagemaking? What are the advantages
and disadvantages of the front berth vs aft berth? Does every passagemaker
need a watermaker?
My warmest regards and thanks to all,
Jonathan Haas
OK... I'll kick this thread off by stating my own peculiar preferences:
A) No Walk-around: This is a significant problem for me if the boat
has very high bow or high freeboard, making both docking and picking
up a mooring buoy difficult.
B) Asymmetrical cabin (walk-around one side only): Preferred as long
as two conditions are met:
1) You are set up to be just as comfortable backing into a slip
under all wind conditions as going in forward. To me, that means
either a very capable rudder (perhaps even an articulated one), or a
great deck hand to spring it in, or a stern thruster.
2) Have easy access to non-walk-around side via a swim platform.
I have a stern thruster and swim platform and an asymmetrical cabin
and have never had an issue with ensuring I always have a starboard
dock.
C) Full walkaround: An undesirable tradeoff in loss of living space
for limited improvement in docking, assuming you can handle backing in
when needed as noted above.
So, I'm voting for asymmetrical with conditions as the optimum solution.
John Marshall
Serendipity - N5520
Sequim Bay, WA
Now, how
about a discussion about a full walk-around on a boat vs. just one
side? How
much fuel do you need for blue water passagemaking? What are the
advantages
and disadvantages of the front berth vs aft berth? Does every
passagemaker
need a watermaker?
We have been very pleased with the asymmetrical design of our Nordhavn 68.
In two years and 12,000 nm of travel, there are very few instances I can
recall of us NOT being able to safely end up in a starboard side tie. The
extra interior room and livability is great and I would make this choice
again in a heartbeat.
To John Marshall's point, however, we do have the advantage of quite
powerful hydraulic bow and stern thrusters (35 hp each) driven by a wing
engine typically running at 1700 to 2100 rpm during docking operations -- no
problem with wimpy thrusters that have to be "babied." We also have a
boarding door on the port side of the aft cockpit for those rare occasions
when we end up in a port side tie.
Scott Marks
N6403 SHEARWATER
http://yachtshearwater.com
Correction -- "...our Nordhavn 64." I did not realize I was already
suffering from the well known boaters disease "4 footitis."
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Marks
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 2:25 PM
To: 'Passagemaking Under Power List'
Subject: Re: [PUP] Full walk-around versus asymmetrical versus no
walk-around
We have been very pleased with the asymmetrical design of our Nordhavn 68.
In two years and 12,000 nm of travel, there are very few instances I can
recall of us NOT being able to safely end up in a starboard side tie. The
extra interior room and livability is great and I would make this choice
again in a heartbeat.
To John Marshall's point, however, we do have the advantage of quite
powerful hydraulic bow and stern thrusters (35 hp each) driven by a wing
engine typically running at 1700 to 2100 rpm during docking operations -- no
problem with wimpy thrusters that have to be "babied." We also have a
boarding door on the port side of the aft cockpit for those rare occasions
when we end up in a port side tie.
Scott Marks
N6403 SHEARWATER
http://yachtshearwater.com
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10:01 AM
Scott,
I wrote it off to the seeming tendency for every Nordhavn owner to be
working on moving up to the next sized boat. <grin>
John Marshall
Serendipity - Nordhavn 55-20
Sequim Bay, WA
On Nov 12, 2008, at 12:35 PM, Scott Marks wrote:
Correction -- "...our Nordhavn 64." I did not realize I was already
suffering from the well known boaters disease "4 footitis."
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On
Behalf Of
Scott Marks
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 2:25 PM
To: 'Passagemaking Under Power List'
Subject: Re: [PUP] Full walk-around versus asymmetrical versus no
walk-around
We have been very pleased with the asymmetrical design of our
Nordhavn 68.
In two years and 12,000 nm of travel, there are very few instances I
can
recall of us NOT being able to safely end up in a starboard side
tie. The
extra interior room and livability is great and I would make this
choice
again in a heartbeat.
To John Marshall's point, however, we do have the advantage of quite
powerful hydraulic bow and stern thrusters (35 hp each) driven by a
wing
engine typically running at 1700 to 2100 rpm during docking
operations -- no
problem with wimpy thrusters that have to be "babied." We also have a
boarding door on the port side of the aft cockpit for those rare
occasions
when we end up in a port side tie.
Scott Marks
N6403 SHEARWATER
http://yachtshearwater.com
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.1/1781 - Release Date:
11/12/2008
10:01 AM
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A professional captain once told me that the port side presented to the dock
was the proper etiquette. Sure enough, I looked down from my daily commute
and saw Steve Forbes' Highlander moored port side to on the Potomac in DC.
However, I also saw the Queen's yacht moored starboard to in Gibraltar (on a
PBS/BBC documentary). What is the proper protocol or does it just depend?
Ron Rogers
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Marks
We also have a boarding door on the port side of the aft cockpit for those
rare occasions
when we end up in a port side tie.
Scott Marks
N6403 SHEARWATER
http://yachtshearwater.com
The only reference I can find is this:
(Note: In sailing ships of long ago, the right side of the sailboat
had a steering board instead of a rudder. This side came to be called
starboard. The left side was always used to approach the port and
thus came to be called port. )
So yes, there was indeed a time when port ties were the standard.
I think those days are long past.
John Marshall
Serendipity N5520
On Nov 12, 2008, at 8:22 PM, Ron Rogers wrote:
A professional captain once told me that the port side presented to
the dock
was the proper etiquette. Sure enough, I looked down from my daily
commute
and saw Steve Forbes' Highlander moored port side to on the Potomac
in DC.
However, I also saw the Queen's yacht moored starboard to in
Gibraltar (on a
PBS/BBC documentary). What is the proper protocol or does it just
depend?
Ron Rogers
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Marks
We also have a boarding door on the port side of the aft cockpit for
those
rare occasions
when we end up in a port side tie.
Scott Marks
N6403 SHEARWATER
http://yachtshearwater.com
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
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UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
RE: docking on port or starboard side -
Knew there was a difference but it took me a little while to figure out
which is which.
On larger yachts, the port side is considered the crew side and starboard is
for owners and guests. Some are set up with port side access to engine room
and galley to reduce crew use of the starboard side. May be why the Queen's
yacht was starboard side to.
Probably isn't something many of us have to worry about.
Jon