Empathy List Archives

HJ

Henry J. Dennig

Tue, Jul 26, 2011 10:08 PM

Hello all,

I think I have put this project off long enough.so assuming the weather

does not go back about 100 degrees this weekend, I am planning to start
replacing the holding tank system plumbing.

The current tank is fiberglassed into the hull between two stringers and
fiberglass top. It is not a physical tank but just the hull, stringers and
top that were glassed to form a box. The plumbing is connected by an
aluminum plate on top of the tank, that has some aluminum welds and some
bronze fittings. The plate is screwed, 5200ed and caulked to the tank.

Unfortunately the seal between the plate and the tank is not perfect and
when the tank starts to get full, we have some leaks that have been sealed
several times.

What I want to do is remove the aluminum plate and replace it with

Starboard or PVC board. Use either Uniseals (thank you Peggy) or PVC
plumbing fittings to connect PVC plumbing to the tank. I have been
scratching my head about how to attach the Starboard or PVC board so that it
can be serviced.

One idea is to put a clean-out port in the PVC board and then
epoxy/fiberglass the PVC board to the top of the tank.

While I am at it, I am expanding the vents from one 5/8 hose to two 1 ½
PVC vents.

Where am I missing something?

                     Thanks - Henry

Hello all, I think I have put this project off long enough.so assuming the weather does not go back about 100 degrees this weekend, I am planning to start replacing the holding tank system plumbing. The current tank is fiberglassed into the hull between two stringers and fiberglass top. It is not a physical tank but just the hull, stringers and top that were glassed to form a box. The plumbing is connected by an aluminum plate on top of the tank, that has some aluminum welds and some bronze fittings. The plate is screwed, 5200ed and caulked to the tank. Unfortunately the seal between the plate and the tank is not perfect and when the tank starts to get full, we have some leaks that have been sealed several times. What I want to do is remove the aluminum plate and replace it with Starboard or PVC board. Use either Uniseals (thank you Peggy) or PVC plumbing fittings to connect PVC plumbing to the tank. I have been scratching my head about how to attach the Starboard or PVC board so that it can be serviced. One idea is to put a clean-out port in the PVC board and then epoxy/fiberglass the PVC board to the top of the tank. While I am at it, I am expanding the vents from one 5/8 hose to two 1 ½ PVC vents. Where am I missing something? Thanks - Henry

BH

Brent Hodges

Tue, Jul 26, 2011 10:51 PM

What I want to do is remove the aluminum plate and replace it with

Starboard or PVC board. One idea is to put a clean-out port in the PVC
board and then
epoxy/fiberglass the PVC board to the top of the tank.

While I am at it, I am expanding the vents from one 5/8" hose to two 1 ½"
PVC vents. (endsnip)

I don't think you want to use Starboard for your new top as nothing will
stick to it, not 5200, not epoxy, nothing. Some things (5200) will stick
just long enough to fool you into thinking it worked, and then let go at the
worst time, like when the tank is full. Not sure about the PVC board, but if
epoxy will stick to it, go for it. As for the clean out port, I wouldn't put
one in. Maybe just leave a space where you could add one later if you need
to get in there, but not until. They are notorious for leaking.
The uniseals do work so I wouldn't be afraid of them. And congrats on the
two 1 1/2" vents. The only way to go. Plumb one to each side of the boat if
you can for the best ventilaton.

Brent Hodges

What I want to do is remove the aluminum plate and replace it with Starboard or PVC board. One idea is to put a clean-out port in the PVC board and then epoxy/fiberglass the PVC board to the top of the tank. While I am at it, I am expanding the vents from one 5/8" hose to two 1 ½" PVC vents. (endsnip) I don't think you want to use Starboard for your new top as nothing will stick to it, not 5200, not epoxy, nothing. Some things (5200) will stick just long enough to fool you into thinking it worked, and then let go at the worst time, like when the tank is full. Not sure about the PVC board, but if epoxy will stick to it, go for it. As for the clean out port, I wouldn't put one in. Maybe just leave a space where you could add one later if you need to get in there, but not until. They are notorious for leaking. The uniseals do work so I wouldn't be afraid of them. And congrats on the two 1 1/2" vents. The only way to go. Plumb one to each side of the boat if you can for the best ventilaton. Brent Hodges

JP

Joseph Pica

Tue, Jul 26, 2011 10:58 PM

Snip:..I am planning to start

replacing the holding tank system plumbing.

What I want to do is remove the aluminum plate and replace it with

Starboard or PVC board. Use either Uniseals (thank you Peggy) or PVC

plumbing fittings to connect PVC plumbing to the tank. I have been

scratching my head about how to attach the Starboard or PVC board so that it

can be serviced One idea is to put a clean-out port in the PVC board and
then

epoxy/fiberglass the PVC board to the top of the tank.

While I am at it, I am expanding the vents from one 5/8 hose to two 1
½..

Henry...

Ambitious after vacation...all those "sea cucumbers" get you thinking of
holding tank repair? Kidding!

I hesitate to suggest anything to someone of your talent but I'm not shy,
so here goes. Given all the boat bone yards around Baltimore, any chance of
getting a flat section of a fiberglass hull to pre-mount all attachments
onto it then cut the appropriate access hole and glass the assembly to the
tank top? This should eliminate any metal as it has become apparent to me
that none of it can compete with our digested byproducts. Also attaching
all the nipples and other associated drop tubes (pump out and overboard
discharge) off the tank would be much easier then doing it "insitu". Also
will give great insight into tank interior condition and construction e.g.
baffles and mouse holes. Good luck and sorry(wink) I'm not in the area to
help with this most interesting(?) project...please keep up the great
projects.

Joe

M/V Carolyn Ann GH N-37

MTOA# 3813

AGLCA# 5485 (Gold Looper)

CarolynAnn-N37.blogspot.com

Joseph.pica@gmail.com

Snip:..I am planning to start replacing the holding tank system plumbing. What I want to do is remove the aluminum plate and replace it with Starboard or PVC board. Use either Uniseals (thank you Peggy) or PVC plumbing fittings to connect PVC plumbing to the tank. I have been scratching my head about how to attach the Starboard or PVC board so that it can be serviced One idea is to put a clean-out port in the PVC board and then epoxy/fiberglass the PVC board to the top of the tank. While I am at it, I am expanding the vents from one 5/8 hose to two 1 ½.. Henry... Ambitious after vacation...all those "sea cucumbers" get you thinking of holding tank repair? Kidding! I hesitate to suggest anything to someone of your talent but I'm not shy, so here goes. Given all the boat bone yards around Baltimore, any chance of getting a flat section of a fiberglass hull to pre-mount all attachments onto it then cut the appropriate access hole and glass the assembly to the tank top? This should eliminate any metal as it has become apparent to me that none of it can compete with our digested byproducts. Also attaching all the nipples and other associated drop tubes (pump out and overboard discharge) off the tank would be much easier then doing it "insitu". Also will give great insight into tank interior condition and construction e.g. baffles and mouse holes. Good luck and sorry(wink) I'm not in the area to help with this most interesting(?) project...please keep up the great projects. Joe M/V Carolyn Ann GH N-37 MTOA# 3813 AGLCA# 5485 (Gold Looper) CarolynAnn-N37.blogspot.com Joseph.pica@gmail.com

RA

Rudy and Jill

Tue, Jul 26, 2011 11:10 PM

Henry, if I may offer a suggestion... instead, use a fiberglass top and also thicken the flange on the tank.

I've had the pleasure of having to get quite a few fiberglass tanks to stop leaking. My experiences are that the tops and flanges are generally too thin and the bolts too far apart to provide a good seal.

I'm not so sure that starboard is the way to go. I suspect that it would have to be extremely thick to be bolted down well enough to seal good, but maybe not. One thing is for sure, you'll not get any sealant to stick to it for any length of time, so you're stuck with gaskets of one sort or another.

When possible, what I do is fill in the holes in the flange and add more fiberglass to the flange to build up its thickness. I also lay up a flat fiberglass panel that I will cut a new top out of. (Lay down a piece of plastic, wax paper or heavily wax a smooth surface, start laying up layer after layer of glass and resin until it is as thick as needed, then cut it to shape with an angle grinder or circular saw spinning a composite wheel.)

How do I determine how thick to make the flange and top? I keep laying up glass until the lid or flange won't bend when I try to bend it with my hands. The bigger the top, the thicker I'll make the top, but seldom more than 3/8" thick, usually about 1/4" thick. (Better too thick, than too thin.)

When the flange and top are ready, I'll re-drill for fasteners, no more than 2" apart. Sealant or gasket material is used between the two and thru-bolting is prefered over just screwing them together.

Feel free to use any or all ideas, or heaven forbid, none of them, but patents are pending.

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl

Henry, if I may offer a suggestion... instead, use a fiberglass top and also thicken the flange on the tank. I've had the pleasure of having to get quite a few fiberglass tanks to stop leaking. My experiences are that the tops and flanges are generally too thin and the bolts too far apart to provide a good seal. I'm not so sure that starboard is the way to go. I suspect that it would have to be extremely thick to be bolted down well enough to seal good, but maybe not. One thing is for sure, you'll not get any sealant to stick to it for any length of time, so you're stuck with gaskets of one sort or another. When possible, what I do is fill in the holes in the flange and add more fiberglass to the flange to build up its thickness. I also lay up a flat fiberglass panel that I will cut a new top out of. (Lay down a piece of plastic, wax paper or heavily wax a smooth surface, start laying up layer after layer of glass and resin until it is as thick as needed, then cut it to shape with an angle grinder or circular saw spinning a composite wheel.) How do I determine how thick to make the flange and top? I keep laying up glass until the lid or flange won't bend when I try to bend it with my hands. The bigger the top, the thicker I'll make the top, but seldom more than 3/8" thick, usually about 1/4" thick. (Better too thick, than too thin.) When the flange and top are ready, I'll re-drill for fasteners, no more than 2" apart. Sealant or gasket material is used between the two and thru-bolting is prefered over just screwing them together. Feel free to use any or all ideas, or heaven forbid, none of them, but patents are pending. Rudy Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl

GG

G. Gliksman

Tue, Jul 26, 2011 11:56 PM

Henry:

Trying re-using the aluminum plate with a neoprene gasket.

Worked for me on integral, f/g diesel tanks using Nitrile gasket.

Screw fastners may not be adequate. Thru-bolts with nuts is better.

George
M/V Ocean Lady

--- On Tue, 7/26/11, Henry J. Dennig hjdennig@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Henry J. Dennig hjdennig@hotmail.com
Subject: T&T: Holding Tank - re-engineering
To: "T&T " trawlers@lists.trawlering.com
Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 3:08 PM

Hello all,

I think I have put this project off long enough….so assuming the weather
does not go back about 100 degrees this weekend, I am planning to start
replacing the holding tank system plumbing.

The current tank is fiberglassed into the hull between two stringers and
fiberglass top. It is not a physical tank but just the hull, stringers and
top that were glassed to form a box. The plumbing is connected by an
aluminum plate on top of the tank, that has some aluminum welds and some
bronze fittings. The plate is screwed, 5200’ed and caulked to the tank.

Unfortunately the seal between the plate and the tank is not perfect and
when the tank starts to get full, we have some leaks that have been sealed
several times.

What I want to do is remove the aluminum plate and replace it with
Starboard or PVC board. Use either Uniseals (thank you Peggy) or PVC
plumbing fittings to connect PVC plumbing to the tank. I have been
scratching my head about how to attach the Starboard or PVC board so that it
can be serviced.

One idea is to put a clean-out port in the PVC board and then
epoxy/fiberglass the PVC board to the top of the tank.

While I am at it, I am expanding the vents from one 5/8” hose to two 1 ½”
PVC vents.

Where am I missing something?

Thanks - Henry

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Henry: Trying re-using the aluminum plate with a neoprene gasket. Worked for me on integral, f/g diesel tanks using Nitrile gasket. Screw fastners may not be adequate. Thru-bolts with nuts is better. George M/V Ocean Lady --- On Tue, 7/26/11, Henry J. Dennig <hjdennig@hotmail.com> wrote: From: Henry J. Dennig <hjdennig@hotmail.com> Subject: T&T: Holding Tank - re-engineering To: "T&T " <trawlers@lists.trawlering.com> Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 3:08 PM Hello all, I think I have put this project off long enough….so assuming the weather does not go back about 100 degrees this weekend, I am planning to start replacing the holding tank system plumbing. The current tank is fiberglassed into the hull between two stringers and fiberglass top. It is not a physical tank but just the hull, stringers and top that were glassed to form a box. The plumbing is connected by an aluminum plate on top of the tank, that has some aluminum welds and some bronze fittings. The plate is screwed, 5200’ed and caulked to the tank. Unfortunately the seal between the plate and the tank is not perfect and when the tank starts to get full, we have some leaks that have been sealed several times. What I want to do is remove the aluminum plate and replace it with Starboard or PVC board. Use either Uniseals (thank you Peggy) or PVC plumbing fittings to connect PVC plumbing to the tank. I have been scratching my head about how to attach the Starboard or PVC board so that it can be serviced. One idea is to put a clean-out port in the PVC board and then epoxy/fiberglass the PVC board to the top of the tank. While I am at it, I am expanding the vents from one 5/8” hose to two 1 ½” PVC vents. Where am I missing something? Thanks - Henry _______________________________________________ http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.