Empathy List Archives

DL

Don Latham

Mon, Sep 7, 2009 7:54 PM

Hi Magnus: I don't express myself well at all. I meant the meanness and
shortsighted technique of insuring the equipment would not run without the
magic poem. Unnecessary IMHO.
I thoroughly agree with all of you that refilling the tube is
unquestionably a waste of time.
Don

Magnus Danielson

Don Latham wrote:

yet another reason not to buy a CS clock. What kind of self-destructive
bs is this?

The expensive kind.

I recall a discussion about refilling cesium in tubes from another
direction. I was suppriced that they did not understand how cesium
contaminates the tube, how spectrometer and vacuum "pump" is
contaminated etc. They where only discussing the addition of more
cesium. Even my very rudimentary knowledge outweigth them, that suprised
me.

Pumping would reduce cesium spills at first magnet, which should be a
significant improvement in lifetime. As the oven temperature is lowered
to reduce stream of cesium, a lower average speed would be achieved,
thus prodicing a longer interaction time which would improve
performance. Alternatively better short-term stability could be achieved
with the improved signal-to-noise.

Cheers,
Magnus

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--
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

Hi Magnus: I don't express myself well at all. I meant the meanness and shortsighted technique of insuring the equipment would not run without the magic poem. Unnecessary IMHO. I thoroughly agree with all of you that refilling the tube is unquestionably a waste of time. Don Magnus Danielson > Don Latham wrote: >> yet another reason not to buy a CS clock. What kind of self-destructive >> bs is this? > > The expensive kind. > > I recall a discussion about refilling cesium in tubes from another > direction. I was suppriced that they did not understand how cesium > contaminates the tube, how spectrometer and vacuum "pump" is > contaminated etc. They where only discussing the addition of more > cesium. Even my very rudimentary knowledge outweigth them, that suprised > me. > > Pumping would reduce cesium spills at first magnet, which should be a > significant improvement in lifetime. As the oven temperature is lowered > to reduce stream of cesium, a lower average speed would be achieved, > thus prodicing a longer interaction time which would improve > performance. Alternatively better short-term stability could be achieved > with the improved signal-to-noise. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com

MD

Magnus Danielson

Mon, Sep 7, 2009 9:09 PM

Hi Don,

Don Latham wrote:

Hi Magnus: I don't express myself well at all. I meant the meanness and
shortsighted technique of insuring the equipment would not run without the
magic poem. Unnecessary IMHO.

Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have
always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled
into chants and poems of its master magicians. :)

I thoroughly agree with all of you that refilling the tube is
unquestionably a waste of time.

The issues of CBTs needs to be understood before attempting it. Opening
them in vacuum or inert environment seems possible, but time-consuming
as well as requiring a bit of speciallized toolset (lathe inside inert
environment is just not lying around).

Cheers,
Magnus

Hi Don, Don Latham wrote: > Hi Magnus: I don't express myself well at all. I meant the meanness and > shortsighted technique of insuring the equipment would not run without the > magic poem. Unnecessary IMHO. Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled into chants and poems of its master magicians. :) > I thoroughly agree with all of you that refilling the tube is > unquestionably a waste of time. The issues of CBTs needs to be understood before attempting it. Opening them in vacuum or inert environment seems possible, but time-consuming as well as requiring a bit of speciallized toolset (lathe inside inert environment is just not lying around). Cheers, Magnus

DL

Don Latham

Mon, Sep 7, 2009 9:31 PM

Magnus:

Sometimes Easter eggs are nice, I agree. But they are usually pleasant
surprises rather than needed to make the equipment function ;-)

(lathe inside inert

environment is just not lying around).

Gosh, I have a tiny lathe, a bell jar, and a pump. How big is the tube? Of
course, I have no impervious imp to operate the lathe. Hmmmm
(no, I don't want to try it!)

Best,
Don

Cheers,
Magnus

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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--
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

Magnus: Sometimes Easter eggs are nice, I agree. But they are usually pleasant surprises rather than needed to make the equipment function ;-) (lathe inside inert > environment is just not lying around). Gosh, I have a tiny lathe, a bell jar, and a pump. How big is the tube? Of course, I have no impervious imp to operate the lathe. Hmmmm (no, I don't want to try it!) Best, Don > Cheers, > Magnus > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com

PK

Poul-Henning Kamp

Mon, Sep 7, 2009 9:43 PM

In message 4AA5766C.5090607@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson writes:

Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have
always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled
into chants and poems of its master magicians. :)

Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY"
via GPIB :-)

--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

In message <4AA5766C.5090607@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus Danielson writes: >Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have >always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled >into chants and poems of its master magicians. :) Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY" via GPIB :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

DC

David C. Partridge

Mon, Sep 7, 2009 10:21 PM

Oh Plugh!

:-)

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: 07 September 2009 22:44
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube

Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY"

Oh Plugh! :-) -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: 07 September 2009 22:44 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY"

P

phil

Tue, Sep 8, 2009 2:04 AM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" phk@phk.freebsd.dk
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube

In message 4AA5766C.5090607@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson
writes:

Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have
always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled
into chants and poems of its master magicians. :)

Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY"
via GPIB :-)

--
Poul-Henning Kamp

The Poem ???

"The earth is not a great clock.
It's a good clock, but atomic standards
are much better."

Len Cutler, Agilent Technologies,
New York Times, January 17, 2002

----- Original Message ----- From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube > In message <4AA5766C.5090607@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus Danielson > writes: > >>Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have >>always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled >>into chants and poems of its master magicians. :) > > Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY" > via GPIB :-) > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp The Poem ??? "The earth is not a great clock. It's a good clock, but atomic standards are much better." - Len Cutler, Agilent Technologies, New York Times, January 17, 2002

JF

J. Forster

Tue, Sep 8, 2009 2:06 AM

Presumably, the author could put the poem in the Public Domain. Copyright
poof!

FWIW,
-John

============

----- Original Message -----
From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" phk@phk.freebsd.dk
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube

In message 4AA5766C.5090607@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson
writes:

Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have
always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled
into chants and poems of its master magicians. :)

Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY"
via GPIB :-)

--
Poul-Henning Kamp

The Poem ???

"The earth is not a great clock.
It's a good clock, but atomic standards
are much better."

Len Cutler, Agilent Technologies,
New York Times, January 17, 2002

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Presumably, the author could put the poem in the Public Domain. Copyright poof! FWIW, -John ============ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube > > >> In message <4AA5766C.5090607@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus Danielson >> writes: >> >>>Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have >>>always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled >>>into chants and poems of its master magicians. :) >> >> Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY" >> via GPIB :-) >> >> -- >> Poul-Henning Kamp > > The Poem ??? > > "The earth is not a great clock. > It's a good clock, but atomic standards > are much better." > - Len Cutler, Agilent Technologies, > New York Times, January 17, 2002 > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > >

P

phil

Tue, Sep 8, 2009 2:13 AM

http://tron.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200203/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=14965
look at Page 2

If it is a direct "quote", public domain ?

Phil

----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Forster" jfor@quik.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube

Presumably, the author could put the poem in the Public Domain. Copyright
poof!

FWIW,
-John

============

----- Original Message -----
From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" phk@phk.freebsd.dk
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube

In message 4AA5766C.5090607@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson
writes:

Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have
always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled
into chants and poems of its master magicians. :)

Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY"
via GPIB :-)

--
Poul-Henning Kamp

The Poem ???

"The earth is not a great clock.
It's a good clock, but atomic standards
are much better."

Len Cutler, Agilent Technologies,
New York Times, January 17, 2002

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

http://tron.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200203/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=14965 look at Page 2 If it is a direct "quote", public domain ? Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Forster" <jfor@quik.com> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube > Presumably, the author could put the poem in the Public Domain. Copyright > poof! > > FWIW, > -John > > ============ > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> >> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube >> >> >>> In message <4AA5766C.5090607@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus Danielson >>> writes: >>> >>>>Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have >>>>always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled >>>>into chants and poems of its master magicians. :) >>> >>> Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY" >>> via GPIB :-) >>> >>> -- >>> Poul-Henning Kamp >> >> The Poem ??? >> >> "The earth is not a great clock. >> It's a good clock, but atomic standards >> are much better." >> - Len Cutler, Agilent Technologies, >> New York Times, January 17, 2002 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

JF

J. Forster

Tue, Sep 8, 2009 2:34 AM

You miss my point:

The poem is copyright and used as a security lock feature on the CBT.

Therefore no CBTs can be sold w/o violating copyright.

If the poem's copyright were removed, CBTs would no longer be protected,
as anyone could build them w/ the poem in ROM.

-John

===========

http://tron.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200203/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=14965
look at Page 2

If it is a direct "quote", public domain ?

Phil

----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Forster" jfor@quik.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube

Presumably, the author could put the poem in the Public Domain.
Copyright
poof!

FWIW,
-John

============

----- Original Message -----
From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" phk@phk.freebsd.dk
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam
Tube

In message 4AA5766C.5090607@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson
writes:

Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have
always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled
into chants and poems of its master magicians. :)

Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY"
via GPIB :-)

--
Poul-Henning Kamp

The Poem ???

"The earth is not a great clock.
It's a good clock, but atomic standards
are much better."

Len Cutler, Agilent Technologies,
New York Times, January 17, 2002

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

You miss my point: The poem is copyright and used as a security lock feature on the CBT. Therefore no CBTs can be sold w/o violating copyright. If the poem's copyright were removed, CBTs would no longer be protected, as anyone could build them w/ the poem in ROM. -John =========== > http://tron.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200203/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=14965 > look at Page 2 > > If it is a direct "quote", public domain ? > > Phil > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J. Forster" <jfor@quik.com> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:06 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube > > >> Presumably, the author could put the poem in the Public Domain. >> Copyright >> poof! >> >> FWIW, >> -John >> >> ============ >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> >>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" >>> <time-nuts@febo.com> >>> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam >>> Tube >>> >>> >>>> In message <4AA5766C.5090607@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus Danielson >>>> writes: >>>> >>>>>Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have >>>>>always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled >>>>>into chants and poems of its master magicians. :) >>>> >>>> Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command "XYZZY" >>>> via GPIB :-) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Poul-Henning Kamp >>> >>> The Poem ??? >>> >>> "The earth is not a great clock. >>> It's a good clock, but atomic standards >>> are much better." >>> - Len Cutler, Agilent Technologies, >>> New York Times, January 17, 2002 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > >

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HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube