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looking for multi-constellation GNSS nav receiver with bluetooth or WiFi interface

BL
Brian Lloyd
Thu, Oct 13, 2022 11:16 AM

This is somewhat off-topic for time nuts but probably on-topic for the
GNSS aficionados that lurk about here.

I am working on a book about long-distance flying and, knowing the
potential fragility of single-constellation GNSS, especially GPS, I have
been trying to find a multi-constellation sensor that goes beyond GPS +
GLONAS. Does anyone know of a packaged nav sensor that includes GPS,
GLONAS, BeiDou, and Galileo? Yes, I have followed all the discussion of
the newer multi-constellation GNSS modules that are now out there but I
haven't been successful in finding a packaged nav sensor with a WiFi or
Bluetooth interface that can integrate with various nav packages
available for aviation, e.g. ForeFlight.

Also, if anyone knows of a better place to ask this question I would
appreciate that information as well.

Thank you in advance.

--
Brian Lloyd
brian@lloyd.aero
+1 210 620 0011
‭+39 338 7418637

This is somewhat off-topic for time nuts but probably on-topic for the GNSS aficionados that lurk about here. I am working on a book about long-distance flying and, knowing the potential fragility of single-constellation GNSS, especially GPS, I have been trying to find a multi-constellation sensor that goes beyond GPS + GLONAS. Does anyone know of a packaged nav sensor that includes GPS, GLONAS, BeiDou, and Galileo? Yes, I have followed all the discussion of the newer multi-constellation GNSS modules that are now out there but I haven't been successful in finding a packaged nav sensor with a WiFi or Bluetooth interface that can integrate with various nav packages available for aviation, e.g. ForeFlight. Also, if anyone knows of a better place to ask this question I would appreciate that information as well. Thank you in advance. -- Brian Lloyd brian@lloyd.aero +1 210 620 0011 ‭+39 338 7418637
BK
Bob kb8tq
Thu, Oct 13, 2022 5:23 PM

Hi

There are a variety of demo boards out there. Some have
WiFi / Bluetooth on them. The uBlox F9x products would be
one of the prime candidates. They are multi band / multi
constellation devices. You might also look into the Septentrio
Mosiac demo boards.

For a full up module with , the Septentrio AsteRx-M3 boards look like
some of them would likely fill the bill. They are more than a bit
expensive.

How any of this would interface with specific nav software is very
much a “that depends” sort of thing. Unless multi GNSS / multi
band gear is commonly available for this application …. I’d bet
it’s not going to drop right in.

If indeed what you are looking for is a robust solution based on
multi band and multi constellation comparisons, that is a pretty
significant software undertaking. There is software that works with
multi this and multi and they simply averages thing. If one input
goes a bit bonkers, so does the average. The “how do I decide”
stuff isn’t always there ……

Bottom line : I’d take a pretty good look at the software before I
put a few thousand dollars into this or that bunch of electronics.

Bob

On Oct 13, 2022, at 7:16 AM, Brian Lloyd via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

This is somewhat off-topic for time nuts but probably on-topic for the GNSS aficionados that lurk about here.

I am working on a book about long-distance flying and, knowing the potential fragility of single-constellation GNSS, especially GPS, I have been trying to find a multi-constellation sensor that goes beyond GPS + GLONAS. Does anyone know of a packaged nav sensor that includes GPS, GLONAS, BeiDou, and Galileo? Yes, I have followed all the discussion of the newer multi-constellation GNSS modules that are now out there but I haven't been successful in finding a packaged nav sensor with a WiFi or Bluetooth interface that can integrate with various nav packages available for aviation, e.g. ForeFlight.

Also, if anyone knows of a better place to ask this question I would appreciate that information as well.

Thank you in advance.

--
Brian Lloyd
brian@lloyd.aero
+1 210 620 0011
‭+39 338 7418637


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Hi There are a variety of demo boards out there. Some have WiFi / Bluetooth on them. The uBlox F9x products would be one of the prime candidates. They are multi band / multi constellation devices. You might also look into the Septentrio Mosiac demo boards. For a full up module with , the Septentrio AsteRx-M3 boards look like some of them would likely fill the bill. They are more than a bit expensive. How any of this would interface with specific nav software is very much a “that depends” sort of thing. Unless multi GNSS / multi band gear is commonly available for this application …. I’d bet it’s not going to drop right in. If indeed what you are looking for is a robust solution based on multi band and multi constellation comparisons, that is a pretty significant software undertaking. There is software that works with multi this and multi and they simply averages thing. If one input goes a bit bonkers, so does the average. The “how do I decide” stuff isn’t always there …… Bottom line : I’d take a pretty good look at the software before I put a few thousand dollars into this or that bunch of electronics. Bob > On Oct 13, 2022, at 7:16 AM, Brian Lloyd via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > This is somewhat off-topic for time nuts but probably on-topic for the GNSS aficionados that lurk about here. > > I am working on a book about long-distance flying and, knowing the potential fragility of single-constellation GNSS, especially GPS, I have been trying to find a multi-constellation sensor that goes beyond GPS + GLONAS. Does anyone know of a packaged nav sensor that includes GPS, GLONAS, BeiDou, and Galileo? Yes, I have followed all the discussion of the newer multi-constellation GNSS modules that are now out there but I haven't been successful in finding a packaged nav sensor with a WiFi or Bluetooth interface that can integrate with various nav packages available for aviation, e.g. ForeFlight. > > Also, if anyone knows of a better place to ask this question I would appreciate that information as well. > > Thank you in advance. > > -- > Brian Lloyd > brian@lloyd.aero > +1 210 620 0011 > ‭+39 338 7418637 > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
TS
Todd Smith
Thu, Oct 13, 2022 10:25 PM

You could use a Single Board Computer (SBC) that had Wi-Fi and/or Bluetooth
and USB ports to read one of the multi-GNSS receivers for location.  That
would allow you to run whatever software you want and still get
multi-constellation positioning.

Todd

On Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 12:54 Brian Lloyd via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

This is somewhat off-topic for time nuts but probably on-topic for the
GNSS aficionados that lurk about here.

I am working on a book about long-distance flying and, knowing the
potential fragility of single-constellation GNSS, especially GPS, I have
been trying to find a multi-constellation sensor that goes beyond GPS +
GLONAS. Does anyone know of a packaged nav sensor that includes GPS,
GLONAS, BeiDou, and Galileo? Yes, I have followed all the discussion of
the newer multi-constellation GNSS modules that are now out there but I
haven't been successful in finding a packaged nav sensor with a WiFi or
Bluetooth interface that can integrate with various nav packages
available for aviation, e.g. ForeFlight.

Also, if anyone knows of a better place to ask this question I would
appreciate that information as well.

Thank you in advance.

--
Brian Lloyd
brian@lloyd.aero
+1 210 620 0011
‭+39 338 7418637


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

You could use a Single Board Computer (SBC) that had Wi-Fi and/or Bluetooth and USB ports to read one of the multi-GNSS receivers for location. That would allow you to run whatever software you want and still get multi-constellation positioning. Todd On Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 12:54 Brian Lloyd via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > This is somewhat off-topic for time nuts but probably on-topic for the > GNSS aficionados that lurk about here. > > I am working on a book about long-distance flying and, knowing the > potential fragility of single-constellation GNSS, especially GPS, I have > been trying to find a multi-constellation sensor that goes beyond GPS + > GLONAS. Does anyone know of a packaged nav sensor that includes GPS, > GLONAS, BeiDou, and Galileo? Yes, I have followed all the discussion of > the newer multi-constellation GNSS modules that are now out there but I > haven't been successful in finding a packaged nav sensor with a WiFi or > Bluetooth interface that can integrate with various nav packages > available for aviation, e.g. ForeFlight. > > Also, if anyone knows of a better place to ask this question I would > appreciate that information as well. > > Thank you in advance. > > -- > Brian Lloyd > brian@lloyd.aero > +1 210 620 0011 > ‭+39 338 7418637 > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
GT
Greg Troxel
Fri, Oct 14, 2022 12:59 AM

Brian Lloyd via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com writes:

This is somewhat off-topic for time nuts but probably on-topic for the
GNSS aficionados that lurk about here.

The things I will mention have PPS pins so they count as on topic :-)

I am working on a book about long-distance flying and, knowing the
potential fragility of single-constellation GNSS, especially GPS, I
have been trying to find a multi-constellation sensor that goes beyond
GPS + GLONAS. Does anyone know of a packaged nav sensor that includes
GPS, GLONAS, BeiDou, and Galileo? Yes, I have followed all the
discussion of the newer multi-constellation GNSS modules that are now
out there but I haven't been successful in finding a packaged nav
sensor with a WiFi or Bluetooth interface that can integrate with
various nav packages available for aviation, e.g. ForeFlight.

I'm not sure why you think single-constellation GPS is worse than
single-constellation for the other 3.

I know of two product families.  Very roughly they are an F9P with an
ESP32 that has wifi and/or bluetooth.

iOS is difficult as Bluetooth SPP requires paying some kind of special
Apple licensing fees, as I understand it.  The things I am pointing to
don't do that.  SPP works fine on computers and Android.

Besides data plumbing, it can be nice to have a battery which can hold
ephemeris and RTC.

You may not be thinking about RTK, but the following have on-module RTK.

  • Ardusimple

This was available first.  It can come no case, no battery, and thus
smaller size/weight.  Arduino form factor with native serial and
serial-over-USB.  It has a daughtercard socket and a wifi interface is
one option.  I believe bluetooth is available too.

One big downside is a lack of software maintenance/development on the
WiFi daughterboard.  The code is open soure, but I just don't see much
happening.

Besides F9P, which is L1/L2 and 4 constellations, there is a version
with a Septentrio part which adds additional bands.

https://www.ardusimple.com/simplertk2b-receivers/
https://www.ardusimple.com/simplertk3b-receivers/

  • Sparkfun

This is more recent, and is more of a case/battery/display/UI with a
receiver.  There is an ESP32 builtin (vs daughtercard) and the firmware
will do WiFi (to fetch RTCM3, and maybe to provide nav solutions) and
Bluetooth SPP, and I have seen traffic about BLE.  The ESP32 software is
open source and it is under very active development; I've asked for
features and seen them happen.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/18442

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/18590 (F9R: IMU fusion, no RTK base)

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/19984 (integrated antenna)

Overall I would lean to the sparkfun because of the software situation,
unless you need the lighter weight and smaller size.  If you're
using an antenna like one of

https://www.ardusimple.com/product/calibrated-survey-gnss-multiband-antenna-ip67/
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/17751

and a prism pole, the size/weight difference doesn't matter, and the
battery, status display, and better software tips the advantage to
SparkFun.

Brian Lloyd via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> writes: > This is somewhat off-topic for time nuts but probably on-topic for the > GNSS aficionados that lurk about here. The things I will mention have PPS pins so they count as on topic :-) > I am working on a book about long-distance flying and, knowing the > potential fragility of single-constellation GNSS, especially GPS, I > have been trying to find a multi-constellation sensor that goes beyond > GPS + GLONAS. Does anyone know of a packaged nav sensor that includes > GPS, GLONAS, BeiDou, and Galileo? Yes, I have followed all the > discussion of the newer multi-constellation GNSS modules that are now > out there but I haven't been successful in finding a packaged nav > sensor with a WiFi or Bluetooth interface that can integrate with > various nav packages available for aviation, e.g. ForeFlight. I'm not sure why you think single-constellation GPS is worse than single-constellation for the other 3. I know of two product families. Very roughly they are an F9P with an ESP32 that has wifi and/or bluetooth. iOS is difficult as Bluetooth SPP requires paying some kind of special Apple licensing fees, as I understand it. The things I am pointing to don't do that. SPP works fine on computers and Android. Besides data plumbing, it can be nice to have a battery which can hold ephemeris and RTC. You may not be thinking about RTK, but the following have on-module RTK. * Ardusimple This was available first. It can come no case, no battery, and thus smaller size/weight. Arduino form factor with native serial and serial-over-USB. It has a daughtercard socket and a wifi interface is one option. I believe bluetooth is available too. One big downside is a lack of software maintenance/development on the WiFi daughterboard. The code is open soure, but I just don't see much happening. Besides F9P, which is L1/L2 and 4 constellations, there is a version with a Septentrio part which adds additional bands. https://www.ardusimple.com/simplertk2b-receivers/ https://www.ardusimple.com/simplertk3b-receivers/ * Sparkfun This is more recent, and is more of a case/battery/display/UI with a receiver. There is an ESP32 builtin (vs daughtercard) and the firmware will do WiFi (to fetch RTCM3, and maybe to provide nav solutions) and Bluetooth SPP, and I have seen traffic about BLE. The ESP32 software is open source and it is under very active development; I've asked for features and seen them happen. https://www.sparkfun.com/products/18442 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/18590 (F9R: IMU fusion, no RTK base) https://www.sparkfun.com/products/19984 (integrated antenna) Overall I would lean to the sparkfun because of the software situation, unless you need the lighter weight and smaller size. If you're using an antenna like one of https://www.ardusimple.com/product/calibrated-survey-gnss-multiband-antenna-ip67/ https://www.sparkfun.com/products/17751 and a prism pole, the size/weight difference doesn't matter, and the battery, status display, and better software tips the advantage to SparkFun.
BL
Brian Lloyd
Fri, Oct 14, 2022 6:13 AM

I want to thank everyone for their guidance. Seems I was running down a
rat-hole that might not exist. However I have more than enough to go
research specific options in other directions now.

--
Brian Lloyd
brian@lloyd.aero
+1 210 620 0011
‭+39 338 7418637

I want to thank everyone for their guidance. Seems I was running down a rat-hole that might not exist. However I have more than enough to go research specific options in other directions now. -- Brian Lloyd brian@lloyd.aero +1 210 620 0011 ‭+39 338 7418637