A deep dive into an HP5360A computing counter. I didn't realise HP were making interpolating counters this early. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uL8wiJ-YI

Internally known as “the computing pig” because of its weight. On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 10:40 PM Adrian Godwin via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > A deep dive into an HP5360A computing counter. I didn't realise HP were > making interpolating counters this early. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uL8wiJ-YI > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > -- Jeremy Nichols Sent from my iPad 6.

Hi Jeremy, Thanks for that video link. I did not remember that the interpolator was in its own oven. The early 5360A used nixie tubes, later models used a plasma display (Panaplex). More info the 5360A here: "Introducing the Computing Counter", p 2 "An Electronic Counter for the 1970's", p 9 "Computation for Measurement Complexity", p 13 https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1969-05.pdf http://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1969-05.pdf "Computing-Counter Measurement Systems", p 2 "Programmer is Key to Computing-Counters", p 7 https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1970-12.pdf http://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1970-12.pdf "First of the New Breed" http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/publications/measure/pdf/1969_06.pdf "hp Application Note 116: Precision Frequency Measurements" https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_116.pdf Some previous discussions: https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097227.html (tvb) https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097229.html (jra) https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097232.html (paul) https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097233.html (jeremy) ... A nice set of photos here: https://dopecc.net/calculators/hp/5360a/ https://dopecc.net/calculators/hp/5360a/photo/ ---- The hp 5360A is special to a number of us. It was one of the first examples of a calculator or computer built by hp, complete with external keyboard, display, memory, and stack-based programming language. As a result it could compute clock statistics, including Allan deviation, and this was 50+ years ago! The documents listed above have rich history and are still good reading if you have an interest in frequency counters, computers, stability analysis. Notice that the title of the youtube video is "HP 5360A Computing Counter Repair or Making my Computing Pig Fly Again" and the cartoon used is a pig with wings. I'm not sure what the youtube author intended, but the 5360A actually did "fly". In spite of being large, noisy, and heavy, it was also "portable" and robust. Joe Hafele and Richard Keating famously used a 5360A computing counter during their 1971 round-the-world flying clock relativity experiment with 4x 5061A cesium clocks. Spot the 5360 in the 1st and 3rd and last image at: http://leapsecond.com/museum/HK50/ More info on the 1971/1972 Hafele-Keating experiment here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele%E2%80%93Keating_experiment That inspired my time dilation experiments. Here's one using 53132A counters and 6x 5071A cesium clocks: http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/2016a-DSCN8572v.jpg http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/ /tvb On 11/20/2022 10:48 PM, Jeremy Nichols via time-nuts wrote: > Internally known as “the computing pig” because of its weight. > > > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 10:40 PM Adrian Godwin via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > >> A deep dive into an HP5360A computing counter. I didn't realise HP were >> making interpolating counters this early. >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uL8wiJ-YI >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list --time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe send an email totime-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >>

Have 3 that have been working. I say that with caution as they are so old that they may work or have an issue when turned on. Though honestly they do tend to actually work. They are really hard to troubleshoot. One ran me around for months. But did find the issue. Not that I remember what it was. However each repair is noted in the manual. One unit the display had to be replaced so made up a new display with 7 seg yellow/orange LEDs (Very close to the nixie color)and a micro that did all of the 1 MHz serial data conversion. It also provides a rs-232 output. That was a heck of a project. Totally agree on how heavy they are. Good luck Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 2:02 AM Jeremy Nichols via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Internally known as “the computing pig” because of its weight. > > > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 10:40 PM Adrian Godwin via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > > A deep dive into an HP5360A computing counter. I didn't realise HP were > > making interpolating counters this early. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uL8wiJ-YI > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > > -- > Jeremy Nichols > Sent from my iPad 6. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Does anyone have a link to a service manual for a 5360? I keep meaning to look at how the interpolator worked. My very vague recollection is an integrator between start gate and first count pulse which is then discharged while discharge time is counted using an integrator with a much smaller C - a bit like a dual slope ADC. Similar between stop and next count pulse. So very different from the 5370 vernier oscillator. I don’t have one - haven’t seen a physical one in the UK. But actually I probably really need a 5370! Alan On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 at 15:03, Tom Van Baak via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Hi Jeremy, > > Thanks for that video link. I did not remember that the interpolator was > in its own oven. The early 5360A used nixie tubes, later models used a > plasma display (Panaplex). More info the 5360A here: > > "Introducing the Computing Counter", p 2 > "An Electronic Counter for the 1970's", p 9 > "Computation for Measurement Complexity", p 13 > https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1969-05.pdf > http://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1969-05.pdf > > "Computing-Counter Measurement Systems", p 2 > "Programmer is Key to Computing-Counters", p 7 > https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1970-12.pdf > http://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1970-12.pdf > > "First of the New Breed" > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/publications/measure/pdf/1969_06.pdf > > "hp Application Note 116: Precision Frequency Measurements" > https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_116.pdf > > Some previous discussions: > > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097227.html (tvb) > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097229.html (jra) > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097232.html (paul) > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097233.html (jeremy) > ... > > A nice set of photos here: > > https://dopecc.net/calculators/hp/5360a/ > https://dopecc.net/calculators/hp/5360a/photo/ > > ---- > > The hp 5360A is special to a number of us. It was one of the first > examples of a calculator or computer built by hp, complete with external > keyboard, display, memory, and stack-based programming language. As a > result it could compute clock statistics, including Allan deviation, and > this was 50+ years ago! The documents listed above have rich history and > are still good reading if you have an interest in frequency counters, > computers, stability analysis. > > Notice that the title of the youtube video is "HP 5360A Computing > Counter Repair or Making my Computing Pig Fly Again" and the cartoon > used is a pig with wings. I'm not sure what the youtube author intended, > but the 5360A actually did "fly". In spite of being large, noisy, and > heavy, it was also "portable" and robust. Joe Hafele and Richard Keating > famously used a 5360A computing counter during their 1971 > round-the-world flying clock relativity experiment with 4x 5061A cesium > clocks. Spot the 5360 in the 1st and 3rd and last image at: > > http://leapsecond.com/museum/HK50/ > > More info on the 1971/1972 Hafele-Keating experiment here: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele%E2%80%93Keating_experiment > > That inspired my time dilation experiments. Here's one using 53132A > counters and 6x 5071A cesium clocks: > > http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/2016a-DSCN8572v.jpg > http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm > http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/ > > /tvb > > > On 11/20/2022 10:48 PM, Jeremy Nichols via time-nuts wrote: > > Internally known as “the computing pig” because of its weight. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 10:40 PM Adrian Godwin via time-nuts < > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > > >> A deep dive into an HP5360A computing counter. I didn't realise HP were > >> making interpolating counters this early. > >> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uL8wiJ-YI > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list --time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >> To unsubscribe send an email totime-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Alan at the time I believe it was considered a magical secret. Some manuals do not have the details on the interpolator. With respect to a pdf not sure anyone ever scanned it. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 10:03 AM alan bain via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Does anyone have a link to a service manual for a 5360? I keep meaning to > look at how the interpolator worked. My very vague recollection is an > integrator between start gate and first count pulse which is then > discharged while discharge time is counted using an integrator with a much > smaller C - a bit like a dual slope ADC. Similar between stop and next > count pulse. So very different from the 5370 vernier oscillator. > > I don’t have one - haven’t seen a physical one in the UK. But actually I > probably really need a 5370! > > Alan > > > On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 at 15:03, Tom Van Baak via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > > Hi Jeremy, > > > > Thanks for that video link. I did not remember that the interpolator was > > in its own oven. The early 5360A used nixie tubes, later models used a > > plasma display (Panaplex). More info the 5360A here: > > > > "Introducing the Computing Counter", p 2 > > "An Electronic Counter for the 1970's", p 9 > > "Computation for Measurement Complexity", p 13 > > https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1969-05.pdf > > http://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1969-05.pdf > > > > "Computing-Counter Measurement Systems", p 2 > > "Programmer is Key to Computing-Counters", p 7 > > https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1970-12.pdf > > http://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1970-12.pdf > > > > "First of the New Breed" > > > > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/publications/measure/pdf/1969_06.pdf > > > > "hp Application Note 116: Precision Frequency Measurements" > > https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_116.pdf > > > > Some previous discussions: > > > > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097227.html (tvb) > > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097229.html (jra) > > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097232.html (paul) > > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097233.html (jeremy) > > ... > > > > A nice set of photos here: > > > > https://dopecc.net/calculators/hp/5360a/ > > https://dopecc.net/calculators/hp/5360a/photo/ > > > > ---- > > > > The hp 5360A is special to a number of us. It was one of the first > > examples of a calculator or computer built by hp, complete with external > > keyboard, display, memory, and stack-based programming language. As a > > result it could compute clock statistics, including Allan deviation, and > > this was 50+ years ago! The documents listed above have rich history and > > are still good reading if you have an interest in frequency counters, > > computers, stability analysis. > > > > Notice that the title of the youtube video is "HP 5360A Computing > > Counter Repair or Making my Computing Pig Fly Again" and the cartoon > > used is a pig with wings. I'm not sure what the youtube author intended, > > but the 5360A actually did "fly". In spite of being large, noisy, and > > heavy, it was also "portable" and robust. Joe Hafele and Richard Keating > > famously used a 5360A computing counter during their 1971 > > round-the-world flying clock relativity experiment with 4x 5061A cesium > > clocks. Spot the 5360 in the 1st and 3rd and last image at: > > > > http://leapsecond.com/museum/HK50/ > > > > More info on the 1971/1972 Hafele-Keating experiment here: > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele%E2%80%93Keating_experiment > > > > That inspired my time dilation experiments. Here's one using 53132A > > counters and 6x 5071A cesium clocks: > > > > http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/2016a-DSCN8572v.jpg > > http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm > > http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/ > > > > /tvb > > > > > > On 11/20/2022 10:48 PM, Jeremy Nichols via time-nuts wrote: > > > Internally known as “the computing pig” because of its weight. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 10:40 PM Adrian Godwin via time-nuts < > > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > > > > >> A deep dive into an HP5360A computing counter. I didn't realise HP > were > > >> making interpolating counters this early. > > >> > > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uL8wiJ-YI > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> time-nuts mailing list --time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > >> To unsubscribe send an email totime-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com