magnetic electronic components
Also have a look at the amateur radio literature available from the ARRL. Lots
of practical info.
Don
John Allen
Hi all - this website has some older books from the 50's and 60's that may
help.
Links are at
http://tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm
Most of the way to the bottom of the page.
I hope this is helpful..
Passive components (transformers, capacitors...)
Capacitors, Magnetic Circuits, and Transformers, Leander Matsch, 1964, 350
pages
A detailed text on capacitors, inductors, and transformers. Great info for
those wanting a deep understanding of these passive components. Good theory
and practical applications, especially on transformers and inductors.
Download full text with index, 3.2MB PDF file
Electronic Transformers and Circuits, Reuben Lee, 1955, 349 pages - Courtesy
of John Atwood
This book is a "reference on the design of transformers and electronic
apparatus". It covers the design of power transformers, chokes, and signal
(audio) transformers. It also talks a bit about circuitry, as it relates to
transformers. Enough theory to understand what's going on, as well as
practical info on how to construct transformers.
Download full text, 24MB PDF file
Handbook of Piezoelectric Crystals, John P. Buchanan, 1956, 701 pages -
Courtesy of an anonymous donor
Wow - of military origin, a 700 page book about crystals! A rare source of
information on peizo crystals, as they relate mostly to communications.
Download full text, 48MB PDF file
Hipersil® Core Design Engineer's Handbook, Westinghouse , 1965, 108 pages
This is a design guide and materials databook for Westinghouse Hipersil
transformer cores. A good design guide for transformers and cokes, and has
detailed material data (curves and data tables) for Hipersil steel.
Download full text, 1.9MB PDF file
John, K1AE
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob kb8tq
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 7:56 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] magnetic electronic components
Hi
The problem with coils (inductors) is that they are indeed on the “other side”
of the physics / electrical engineering divide. They are not unique in this
way.
Most components are dealt with to a “equivalent model” level and then
abandoned
in engineering.
You have two choices:
- Read the physics stuff
- Go back far enough that the divide had not occurred ( <= 1950’s).
Sorry about that ….
Bob
On Jun 22, 2015, at 2:02 PM, Attila Kinali attila@kinali.ch wrote:
Hi,
I was looking up some stuff and realized (again) that I don't know
anything about how magnetic electronic components (inductors/solenoids,
transfomers, baluns, ferrite beads...) work. Yes, I can calculate
the inductance, I know how to get from the AL value to number of
windings. But I don't know anything about the practical issues
or where they come from. Unfortunatelly, this knowledge seems to
generally rare among EEs (at least everyone I asked in the last
couple of years) and books about it are either long out of print
(with no pdf available) or more geared towards the physics student.
So, does anyone have any recomendation where I could read up
on this? Books, pdfs, webpages,... anything.
Also something that covers more the application side, ie how to
use ferrite beads/toroids to build devices, would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Attila Kinali
--
I must not become metastable.
Metastability is the mind-killer.
Metastability is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my metastability.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the metastability has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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--
"Noli sinere nothos te opprimere"
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLC
17850 Six Mile Road
Huson, MT, 59846
mail: POBox 404
Frenchtown MT 59834-0404
VOX 406-626-4304
CEL 406-241-5093
Skype: buffler2
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com
Some other books which are good are:
"Applications of Magnetism", Watson
"Electromagnetic Device", Roters
"Magnetic Properties of Materials", Smit (ed.)
"Transformer Design Handbook", McLyman (I'm not sure if I have the
author correct on this one, but it is a classic)
"Introduction to Ferromagnetism", Bitter (Bell Labs series)
"Magnetic Phenomena", Williams
Ferromagnetism", Bozworth (another Bell Labs title)
"Introduction to Magnetic Materials", Cullity
"Magnetism: Selected Topics", Foner
"Permanent Magnets", McCaig
"The Physical Principles of Magnetism", Morrish
The best books I have found on high-frequency transformers are
"Building and Using Baluns and Ununs" by Jerry Sevick
"Ferromagnetic-Core Design & Application Handbook", DeMaw
PDF versions of some of these my be found on Scribd. I haven't checked
for all of them.
DaveD
On 6/22/2015 9:59 PM, John Allen wrote:
Hi all - this website has some older books from the 50's and 60's that may help.
Links are at
http://tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm
Most of the way to the bottom of the page.
I hope this is helpful..
Passive components (transformers, capacitors...)
Capacitors, Magnetic Circuits, and Transformers, Leander Matsch, 1964, 350 pages
A detailed text on capacitors, inductors, and transformers. Great info for those wanting a deep understanding of these passive components. Good theory and practical applications, especially on transformers and inductors.
Download full text with index, 3.2MB PDF file
Electronic Transformers and Circuits, Reuben Lee, 1955, 349 pages - Courtesy of John Atwood
This book is a "reference on the design of transformers and electronic apparatus". It covers the design of power transformers, chokes, and signal (audio) transformers. It also talks a bit about circuitry, as it relates to transformers. Enough theory to understand what's going on, as well as practical info on how to construct transformers.
Download full text, 24MB PDF file
Handbook of Piezoelectric Crystals, John P. Buchanan, 1956, 701 pages - Courtesy of an anonymous donor
Wow - of military origin, a 700 page book about crystals! A rare source of information on peizo crystals, as they relate mostly to communications.
Download full text, 48MB PDF file
Hipersil® Core Design Engineer's Handbook, Westinghouse , 1965, 108 pages
This is a design guide and materials databook for Westinghouse Hipersil transformer cores. A good design guide for transformers and cokes, and has detailed material data (curves and data tables) for Hipersil steel.
Download full text, 1.9MB PDF file
John, K1AE
On 6/23/15 4:25 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:
"Experimental Methods in RF Design" has a half-dozen pages specifically on
the choices of powdered iron and ferrite materials, and lots of working
circuits and designs with measurements. Aka EMRFD.
http://www.arrl.org/shop/Experimental-Methods-in-RF-Design
Here in the USA, iron powder and ferrite cores of many different materials,
sizes, and a few shapes are available from Amidon and kitsandparts.com.
Many useful ferrite cores for multi-turn transformers and chokes, are sold
as "EMI beads" by Mouser and Newark and other mainline distributors. I
don't know too much about easy availability in EU.
I don't know that I'd recommend Amidon as a source. Back when
mail-order was king, Amidon did hams a real service by buying in bulk
and selling in small quantities. The price was high, but there was no
other source.
Amidon has gone through a lot of business changes over the last 20-30
years (making magnetic tape heads and then not, overseas manufacturing,
etc.).
They're not the same company as Bill Amidon sitting in his garage in the
San Fernando Valley putting cores in little paper or plastic envelopes
with that folded up tissue paper instruction and data sheet with all the
handy design equations and graphs.
It used to be tough to get databooks from large manufacturers as a
hobbyist. The sales reps would hand them out after qualifying you as a
potential lead. Bill did everyone a great service in essentially
redrawing and republishing all the needed data in a handy form.
These days, most of the parts, (e.g. made by Fair-rite,Ferroxcube,
Philips), etc are available from Mouser, DigiKey and other distributors
readily.
Furthermore, the design information is readily available on the web
(e.g. from Fair-rite) or in various mailing lists.
You might also find Doug DeMaw's book "Ferromagnetic Core Design &
Application Handbook" to be of interest.....
73
Lee K9WRU
----- Original Message -----
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Attila Kinali attila@kinali.ch wrote:
Hi,
I was looking up some stuff and realized (again) that I don't know
anything about how magnetic electronic components (inductors/solenoids,
transfomers, baluns, ferrite beads...) work. Yes, I can calculate
the inductance, I know how to get from the AL value to number of
windings. But I don't know anything about the practical issues
or where they come from. Unfortunatelly, this knowledge seems to
generally rare among EEs (at least everyone I asked in the last
couple of years) and books about it are either long out of print
(with no pdf available) or more geared towards the physics student.
So, does anyone have any recomendation where I could read up
on this? Books, pdfs, webpages,... anything.
Also something that covers more the application side, ie how to
use ferrite beads/toroids to build devices, would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Attila Kinali
--
I must not become metastable.
Metastability is the mind-killer.
Metastability is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my metastability.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the metastability has gone there will be nothing. Only I will
remain.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Yes, for ferrites, many (all?) of the Amidon FT-xxx parts are perfectly
standard Fair-Rite cores available from full-line distributors like Mouser,
Newark, etc.
Iron powder cores are not stocked by any of the standard distributors that
I know of, but kitsandparts.com has good prices and quick delivery.
Sometimes Amidon is the best or only place for a particular part.
Good online source on ferrite transformers with measurements and
distributor part numbers: Clifton Labs. e.g.
http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/ferrites,_inductors_and_transformers.htm
Tim N3QE
On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Jim Lux jimlux@earthlink.net wrote:
On 6/23/15 4:25 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:
"Experimental Methods in RF Design" has a half-dozen pages specifically on
the choices of powdered iron and ferrite materials, and lots of working
circuits and designs with measurements. Aka EMRFD.
http://www.arrl.org/shop/Experimental-Methods-in-RF-Design
Here in the USA, iron powder and ferrite cores of many different
materials,
sizes, and a few shapes are available from Amidon and kitsandparts.com.
Many useful ferrite cores for multi-turn transformers and chokes, are sold
as "EMI beads" by Mouser and Newark and other mainline distributors. I
don't know too much about easy availability in EU.
I don't know that I'd recommend Amidon as a source. Back when mail-order
was king, Amidon did hams a real service by buying in bulk and selling in
small quantities. The price was high, but there was no other source.
Amidon has gone through a lot of business changes over the last 20-30
years (making magnetic tape heads and then not, overseas manufacturing,
etc.).
They're not the same company as Bill Amidon sitting in his garage in the
San Fernando Valley putting cores in little paper or plastic envelopes with
that folded up tissue paper instruction and data sheet with all the handy
design equations and graphs.
It used to be tough to get databooks from large manufacturers as a
hobbyist. The sales reps would hand them out after qualifying you as a
potential lead. Bill did everyone a great service in essentially redrawing
and republishing all the needed data in a handy form.
These days, most of the parts, (e.g. made by Fair-rite,Ferroxcube,
Philips), etc are available from Mouser, DigiKey and other distributors
readily.
Furthermore, the design information is readily available on the web (e.g.
from Fair-rite) or in various mailing lists.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 6/23/15 4:02 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote:
Yes, for ferrites, many (all?) of the Amidon FT-xxx parts are perfectly
standard Fair-Rite cores available from full-line distributors like Mouser,
Newark, etc.
Iron powder cores are not stocked by any of the standard distributors that
I know of, but kitsandparts.com has good prices and quick delivery.
Powdered metal.. typically from micrometals.
Lodestone Pacific is one of their distributors. I've not bought small
quantities of Micrometals parts from them, though.
(lots of european distributors)
Sometimes Amidon is the best or only place for a particular part.
Good online source on ferrite transformers with measurements and
distributor part numbers: Clifton Labs. e.g.
http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/ferrites,_inductors_and_transformers.htm
Tim N3QE
Moin!
Thanks for all the answers and sorry for my late reply.
I tried to at least skim trough the suggestions before.
I would like to reply in one big mail instead of many small
ones, in order not to clutter the mailinglist too much.
On Tue, 23 Jun 2015 00:15:29 +0100
Adrian Godwin artgodwin@gmail.com wrote:
Although it's published by a vendor, this applications manual has a lot of
useful information.
http://www.we-online.com/web/en/electronic_components/produkte_pb/fachbuecher/Trilogie.php
Even though, I do not own a copy of The Trilogy, I know of it.
It does a good job of covering the basics. But unfortunately, it
does not contain much about the theoretical background, so does
not help much in understanding how to work around the physical limits
of cores. Other than that, I would recommend this book to every practicioning
electrical engineer.
On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 18:56:02 -0500
Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
You have two choices:
- Read the physics stuff
- Go back far enough that the divide had not occurred ( <= 1950’s).
Sorry about that ….
Yes. I came to a similar conclusion. What irks me is, that this is
the conclusion I came to with many topics in electrical engineering.
At some point people decide that it is either too difficult to deal with
or a solved problem and ignore it completely from then on. And if you
are an engineer who tries to actually understand things instead of just
repeating what some senior engineer told you long long ago, then you
run up against walls. :-(
On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 20:24:14 -0700
Jim Lux jimlux@earthlink.net wrote:
the best, and probably the only, book is the one by E.C. Snelling.
http://www.amazon.com/Soft-ferrites-properties-applications-Snelling/dp/0592027902
1969 edition is
https://archive.org/details/SNELLING__SOFT-FERRITES__1969
and it's not like the properties of magnetic fields have changed.
Cool! Thanks a lot! I was looking for this, but couldn't find it.
I somehow missed that archive.org had a copy.
On Tue, 23 Jun 2015 07:25:57 -0400
Tim Shoppa tshoppa@gmail.com wrote:
Here in the USA, iron powder and ferrite cores of many different materials,
sizes, and a few shapes are available from Amidon and kitsandparts.com.
Many useful ferrite cores for multi-turn transformers and chokes, are sold
as "EMI beads" by Mouser and Newark and other mainline distributors. I
don't know too much about easy availability in EU.
Buying cores is not much of a problem. For one there are the distributors
you have mentioned, for another we have companies like Würth here in
Germany and Coilcraft in the US who are no afraid of selling single pieces
(if they dont just regard it as samples).
BTW: I really like to work with Würth. I know very few components companies
that go so much out of their way to help a struggling engineer to get his
project done. And they never ask about the volume of your project. You need
help, you get help.
Thanks for all the replies and suggesttion. And sorry if I don't answer all
of them individually.
Attila Kinali
--
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
use without that foundation.
-- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
BTW: I really like to work with Würth. I know very few components companies
that go so much out of their way to help a struggling engineer to get his
project done. And they never ask about the volume of your project. You need
help, you get help.
In the US if you live in a area that has a local Allied or similar
mega-distrib's office, get to know one of the sales or technical reps in
the office. Quite easy to do if you go to a few of the free seminars they
always host. Most of the technical guys and gals are very open to helping
the little guy. Be honest that your interest is for yourself or your a one
man show.
On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 5:34 AM, Attila Kinali attila@kinali.ch wrote:
Moin!
Thanks for all the answers and sorry for my late reply.
I tried to at least skim trough the suggestions before.
I would like to reply in one big mail instead of many small
ones, in order not to clutter the mailinglist too much.
On Tue, 23 Jun 2015 00:15:29 +0100
Adrian Godwin artgodwin@gmail.com wrote:
Although it's published by a vendor, this applications manual has a lot
of
useful information.
http://www.we-online.com/web/en/electronic_components/produkte_pb/fachbuecher/Trilogie.php
Even though, I do not own a copy of The Trilogy, I know of it.
It does a good job of covering the basics. But unfortunately, it
does not contain much about the theoretical background, so does
not help much in understanding how to work around the physical limits
of cores. Other than that, I would recommend this book to every
practicioning
electrical engineer.
On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 18:56:02 -0500
Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
You have two choices:
- Read the physics stuff
- Go back far enough that the divide had not occurred ( <= 1950’s).
Sorry about that ….
Yes. I came to a similar conclusion. What irks me is, that this is
the conclusion I came to with many topics in electrical engineering.
At some point people decide that it is either too difficult to deal with
or a solved problem and ignore it completely from then on. And if you
are an engineer who tries to actually understand things instead of just
repeating what some senior engineer told you long long ago, then you
run up against walls. :-(
On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 20:24:14 -0700
Jim Lux jimlux@earthlink.net wrote:
the best, and probably the only, book is the one by E.C. Snelling.
1969 edition is
https://archive.org/details/SNELLING__SOFT-FERRITES__1969
and it's not like the properties of magnetic fields have changed.
Cool! Thanks a lot! I was looking for this, but couldn't find it.
I somehow missed that archive.org had a copy.
On Tue, 23 Jun 2015 07:25:57 -0400
Tim Shoppa tshoppa@gmail.com wrote:
Here in the USA, iron powder and ferrite cores of many different
materials,
sizes, and a few shapes are available from Amidon and kitsandparts.com.
Many useful ferrite cores for multi-turn transformers and chokes, are
sold
as "EMI beads" by Mouser and Newark and other mainline distributors. I
don't know too much about easy availability in EU.
Buying cores is not much of a problem. For one there are the distributors
you have mentioned, for another we have companies like Würth here in
Germany and Coilcraft in the US who are no afraid of selling single pieces
(if they dont just regard it as samples).
BTW: I really like to work with Würth. I know very few components companies
that go so much out of their way to help a struggling engineer to get his
project done. And they never ask about the volume of your project. You need
help, you get help.
Thanks for all the replies and suggesttion. And sorry if I don't answer all
of them individually.
Attila Kinali
--
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
use without that foundation.
-- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.