RE: T&T: Multi Applications on single laptop
Brian,
Several people have provided great feedback on your question, and as usual
it is probably as confusing a choice now as ever! I can tell you what
drives my thought on this issue. I believe your ability to use the computer
for multiple applications is directly related to your knowledge of the PC
and associated software applications. If your comfortable debugging issues
that come up, and they don't throw you for a loop, then you'll probably be
able to run a verity of tasks with little or no problem, with a few caveats:
First and foremost, I'd strongly advocate you run XP, it's really the best
OS from Microsoft in terms of reliability.
Second, if you plan to use the PC to access the Internet it's imperative
that you run a full suite of security products on the computer, and in your
network. At a minimum you need:
a. A virus scanning application to scrub files. This is useless without
the yearly subscription.
b. A spyware blocker that prevents code from being deposited on your
system.
c. A stateful firewall that prevents unsolicited connections from being
established on your computer from outside your network.
d. A 2nd line of port security on your computer, such as Black Ice that
further closes openings that can be exploited.
e. You might consider using a router (linksys) running NAT (Network
Address Translation) to obscure your internet address space from the rest of
the world.
Third, you need to develop a long term plan for how you will support the
computer. It's most likely that your home computer has dozens of utilities
or programs that have accumulated over time. Each of these applications
makes an entry into the Windows Registry. This Registry is a database of
information that the OS uses to understand and support the various
applications on the system. Over time it can become fragmented and
disjointed, resulting in slower and slower performance. XP is better at
managing the registry than previous OS's, but it still becomes fragmented.
At any given time I manage 5 to 6 computers in my house and at college.
Each year or two I completely erase the contents of the hard drive, and
rebuild the systems from scratch. This keeps them running at peak
performance, and reduces problems to a bare minimum. If you use your
navigation computer for home, you might consider adopting a strategy such as
this.
I have chosen to avoid most of these issues by isolating my navigation
computer from home use. I've done this for X reasons:
a. I want to insure the nav computer is as close to 99.99% reliable as
possible. Reducing the number of variables on the computer contributes
positively to this goal.
b. If I do have a problem, I want to be able to call Nobeltec and say,
there is NOTHING other than your software on this system, therefore you
should be able to replicate and debug the problem without regard to any
other application interaction. This includes virus checking software. If
the computer is isolated from infection I don't need it. The only time it
is connected to the internet is to download code from Microsoft or Nobeltec.
c. In the event I have a problem, I want to be able to rapidly rebuild the
computer and restore it to operation. By having all the disks in one place,
and a script to follow with all the various configuration parameters, I can
build the system in a few hours. I've tested this a number of times.
d. It's worth mentioning that I don't just use GPS and charts, I also have
my depth sounder, autopilot and Radar integrated with Nobeltec. If I loose
this system, I loose a great deal of functionality on my boat, so the risk
is higher than others may experience.
I do access the internet from the boat, but on a separate system. I also
watch movies and keep the ships log on this system. It's really up to you
to decide how important your navigation system is to the safe operation of
your boat. I've chosen a paranoid route, because I place significant value
on the reliability of this computer. Good luck and safe voyages!
Scott Bulger
Knot@Work, 31' Camano
Email: scottebulger@comcast.net
Scott, good points all. A few questions for you:
-
Registry - "Over time it can become fragmented and disjointed, resulting
in slower and slower performance". True, but Diskeeper and other better
defragmenting tools defrag the registry as well as swap files, MFT's and
data files. So that's not quite the issue it once was. But they do grow
inevitably and the sheer task of sifting through a huge registry can slow
things down even if it is not defragmented. So I feel it's the registry's
size more than its being fragmented (easily repaired today) that contributes
to slower performance. -
Annual Systems Maintenance - "Each year or two I completely erase the
contents of the hard drive, and rebuild the systems from scratch. This
keeps them running at peak performance, and reduces problems to a bare
minimum". I'm sure that works fine but it can be more of a hassle than most
are willing to spend on their systems. For instance, if you really "rebuild
the systems from scratch" that suggests that you delete all user data from
the PC's. Few users I know are willing to part with their email, documents,
spreadsheets, PowerPoint presentations, etc. It would be useful to describe
how you avoid such problems, via storing user data on different partitions,
etc. Also although rebuilding a relatively new system is fairly
straightforward, it can become a significant task when Operating Systems and
principal applications age. That is, you rebuild the Operating System from
the original CD's and then go through what can be a cumbersome and lengthy
process of applying all the service packs, updates, bug fixes, etc. that
have been issued since the original CD's were published. Then you have to
turn around and do the same thing for all your applications. MS-Office
alone can involve a half dozen major programs, each of which has had
numerous service packs, updates, etc. It can certainly be done, I've done
it too; but I feel it's appropriate to alert the reader that it can be
tedious and may not be necessary if prudent precautions (the ones we agree
on) are taken. -
Home vs. Boat Use - "I have chosen to avoid most of these issues by
isolating my navigation computer from home use". That's fine, but it should
be remembered that for many of us the "home" computer is also the "boat"
computer. That's certainly true for most liveaboards and is increasingly
true for those who don't live aboard (yet) but take extended cruises. It
seems you have multiple PC's dedicated for different uses. However based on
the comments made from many on this list, I suspect most seem overtaxed just
supporting one PC. Having to maintain more than one machine would doubtless
overstress many on the list. More importantly it is counter to my argument
that a well-maintained and well-protected single machine can effectively
provide all computing needs aboard. I fear that early problems with VNS
have lead to rumors that have reached "urban myth" status when, in fact,
they have all been addressed and/or corrected and are no longer the issue
they once may have been. Jumping through hoops now to prevent historical
problem long since repaired seems excessive.
One man's though,
Bob Peterson
47' Lien Hwa CMY
"Lopaka Nane"
San Francisco
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Bulger
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:37 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Cc: bj.tj@telus.net
Subject: RE: T&T: Multi Applications on single laptop
Brian,
Several people have provided great feedback on your question, and as usual
it is probably as confusing a choice now as ever! I can tell you what
drives my thought on this issue. I believe your ability to use the computer
for multiple applications is directly related to your knowledge of the PC
and associated software applications. If your comfortable debugging issues
that come up, and they don't throw you for a loop, then you'll probably be
able to run a verity of tasks with little or no problem, with a few caveats:
As it happens, I just went through this process and it took about 6 hours.
I have a large usb/firewire external hard drive that I use for backup
anyway, to which I copy my Documents folder, my outlook .pst file, my
Favorites file, and a few others, mostly oddball application data that I
can't store in a subfolder of "My Documents."
Loading the system recovery CDs took about an hour. Updating drivers etc.
from the hardware manufacturer's website took about an hour. Updating
Windows (2000 Professional) from the Microsoft Windows Update site took
about 7 separate visits and 1.5 hours on a DSL connection. Installing and
updating Microsoft Office was another hour. Then a half hour for restoring
user data, followed by a Norton Ghost backup of the entire partition so I
can save time next time. I will be restoring other applications as I need
them, mostly reference stuff such as Streets & Maps, the Oxford English
Dictionary, a couple Encyclopedias.
Hal
-----Original Message-----
2. Annual Systems Maintenance - "Each year or two I completely erase the
contents of the hard drive, and rebuild the systems from scratch. This
keeps them running at peak performance, and reduces problems to a bare
minimum". I'm sure that works fine but it can be more of a hassle than most
are willing to spend on their systems. For instance, if you really "rebuild
the systems from scratch" that suggests that you delete all user data from
the PC's. Few users I know are willing to part with their email, documents,
spreadsheets, PowerPoint presentations, etc. It would be useful to describe
how you avoid such problems, via storing user data on different partitions,
etc.
At 11:34 AM 10/26/2004, you wrote:
As it happens, I just went through this process and it took about 6 hours.
If Microsoft paid its users ten cents an hour for applying their "patches",
they would certainly not have their billions in cash. Imagine if you had
to feed your car or your refrigerator updates to keep them running
reliably. (On the other hand it may happen, Microsoft now want to be the
software supplier of choice to the auto industry).
Best,
Steve
Steve Dubnoff
1966 Willard 47' Dover Pilothouse
sdubnoff@circlesys.com
Hal, Understood, and as I stated, not a trivial project.
Bob Peterson
47' Lien Hwa CMY
"Lopaka Nane"
San Francisco
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of Hal
Wyman
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:35 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: T&T: Reformatting/Reinstalling software (was Multi Applications...)
As it happens, I just went through this process and it took about 6 hours.
I have a large usb/firewire external hard drive that I use for backup
anyway, to which I copy my Documents folder, my outlook .pst file, my
Favorites file, and a few others, mostly oddball application data that I
can't store in a subfolder of "My Documents."
Loading the system recovery CDs took about an hour. Updating drivers etc.
from the hardware manufacturer's website took about an hour. Updating
Windows (2000 Professional) from the Microsoft Windows Update site took
about 7 separate visits and 1.5 hours on a DSL connection. Installing and
updating Microsoft Office was another hour. Then a half hour for restoring
user data, followed by a Norton Ghost backup of the entire partition so I
can save time next time. I will be restoring other applications as I need
them, mostly reference stuff such as Streets & Maps, the Oxford English
Dictionary, a couple Encyclopedias.
Hal
-----Original Message-----
2. Annual Systems Maintenance - "Each year or two I completely erase the
contents of the hard drive, and rebuild the systems from scratch. This
keeps them running at peak performance, and reduces problems to a bare
minimum". I'm sure that works fine but it can be more of a hassle than most
are willing to spend on their systems. For instance, if you really "rebuild
the systems from scratch" that suggests that you delete all user data from
the PC's. Few users I know are willing to part with their email, documents,
spreadsheets, PowerPoint presentations, etc. It would be useful to describe
how you avoid such problems, via storing user data on different partitions,
etc.
__
You all could use an application like Ghost, and just make a image of
your OS after you do your original installs. Save your self some time
while your out there on the water. Then just apply your minor updates
after that.
http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/ghost_personal/
John
On Oct 26, 2004, at 3:16 PM, Bob Peterson wrote:
Hal, Understood, and as I stated, not a trivial project.
Bob Peterson
47' Lien Hwa CMY
"Lopaka Nane"
San Francisco
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf
Of Hal
Wyman
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:35 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: T&T: Reformatting/Reinstalling software (was Multi
Applications...)
As it happens, I just went through this process and it took about 6
hours.
I have a large usb/firewire external hard drive that I use for backup
anyway, to which I copy my Documents folder, my outlook .pst file, my
Favorites file, and a few others, mostly oddball application data that
I
can't store in a subfolder of "My Documents."
Loading the system recovery CDs took about an hour. Updating drivers
etc.
from the hardware manufacturer's website took about an hour. Updating
Windows (2000 Professional) from the Microsoft Windows Update site took
about 7 separate visits and 1.5 hours on a DSL connection. Installing
and
updating Microsoft Office was another hour. Then a half hour for
restoring
user data, followed by a Norton Ghost backup of the entire partition
so I
can save time next time. I will be restoring other applications as I
need
them, mostly reference stuff such as Streets & Maps, the Oxford English
Dictionary, a couple Encyclopedias.
Hal
-----Original Message-----
2. Annual Systems Maintenance - "Each year or two I completely erase
the
contents of the hard drive, and rebuild the systems from scratch. This
keeps them running at peak performance, and reduces problems to a bare
minimum". I'm sure that works fine but it can be more of a hassle
than most
are willing to spend on their systems. For instance, if you really
"rebuild
the systems from scratch" that suggests that you delete all user data
from
the PC's. Few users I know are willing to part with their email,
documents,
spreadsheets, PowerPoint presentations, etc. It would be useful to
describe
how you avoid such problems, via storing user data on different
partitions,
etc.
__
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Feisty Lady
2004 American Tug 34
Annapolis City Marina
Spa Creek
Annapolis(of course), Maryland
Since pretty much everything that's been said it true, I'd like to offer one
piece of software that might make repartition and reformat feasible. However
it requires two computers. The software's name is Intellimover and it runs
around $47.00 at most "box" stores - but not Home Debit. The software comes
with two cables (as I recall) one is USB to USB and the other is a serial
crossover cable.
You have to pretend that the computer you are going to reload from
repartition is your "old" computer and your other computer is your "new"
computer. Your new computer has to have the same applications you use on the
laptop - which could be a problem for some. After loading the software, you
get to select the data (only) that you want transferred. In my case it was
all Outlook Express preferences and email, all IE preferences and favorites,
as well as preferences and data for other applications like Excel and Word.
I have to admit that in the past I have had some trouble moving Outlook
*.pst files to a new computer and have it work. Intellimover did everything
correctly and only forgot my message rules.
In a work environment we had the OS and service packs and patches on a
designated server and the process was faster than using CDs. This process
would be painful if you did not have direct access to a broadband
connection. Of course, if you have a full-blown home network, you could
designate a fast machine the server and pull the software down, but few have
that setup.
I'm doing data backups to a USB external hard disk - but not as religiously
as I should.
Ron Rogers
Willard 40 AIRBORNE
Lying Annapolis