IMHO, you made a mistake. North of the 47th you would be well served to have that 400 ft. Certainly your Krogen could handle it well. Also 3/8" high test chain is great stuff, but you will not find a 3/8" high test strength connector to attach another piece back to the chain. Soooo.... You're in the same boat as most of us which means you have to construct a nylon extension line for use if and when you need the extra length. As well as the extra length needed for anchoring in deeper water (50-70 Ft) it's also nice to use the extra length for a shock absorber so that, except in the worst of blows) the catenaries weight of the chain is sufficient to absorb and surges that might otherwise bring the chain rode up tight (not a good thing). We often use our 350 feet of 5/16" chain for this purpose. It saves the hassle of bridles, etc. We carry an additional 150 feet of 5/8" line to "extend" our anchor rode but we've never had to use it.....yet. Joe & Debbie Engel Marine Computer Services & JRE Consulting, Inc. MV Freda Fly - 40' Tollycraft Tri-cabin Portland, OR -----Original Message----- From: Bob & Debbie Huddleston [mailto:huddlestonB_D@email.msn.com] Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 12:40 PM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com; Anne Reeves Subject: Re: TWL: Windlass Anne, Tell me if I just made a big mistake. I had 400 feet of 3/8" High Test chain on the boat. It just did not fit on the boat very well. So last week I cut off 100 feet and sold it. I am coming your way and further next Spring. Is 300 feet enough? Do you think a 66 lb. Bruce will suffice? Concerning windlasses, we just installed a Maxwell VWC 1200 which is hydraulically powered. Hopefully, no more back operations for me. Bob & Debbie Huddleston Krogen 42 AB6NI KC6SKY "The Deborah C." HuddlestonB_D@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Anne Reeves <seabird@olypen.com> To: Charles C Culotta,Jr. <cculotta@iamerica.net>; <Cln214@aol.com> Cc: <trawler-world-list@samurai.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 6:04 PM Subject: Re: TWL: Windlass > Charles, > > I would suspect that you do not anchor in 60 to 100 feet of water like we > do. After one summer of hand hauling the chain up by a manual operated > windlass I would bet you would get a Maxwell windlass like we have. We have > had it 10 years and it has never failed. > > PS - Do you read by candle light so that the batteries won't run down? > > Anne & Bob > Seabird > Port Townsend, WA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charles C Culotta,Jr. <cculotta@iamerica.net> > I respectfully suggest that you consider a manual windlass. That is what > > I have and it has NEVER failed to perform every time , bar none. No low > > battery, broken switch, corroded contacts bad windings nothing but wrk > > wrk wrk. > > CCC > > > > Cln214@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > About to start looking for a windlass for a 44' trawler. Any > suggestions > > > from the crowd? > > >

With our 66# Bruce and 3/8" chain we normally anchor 3-1 or 4-1 at most. If it is REALLY blowing we may let out more chain, but anchoring in 50' that would only require 150 to 200 feet and 70' would be 210 to 280 feet. So I guess the Deborah K will be ok. Little dicey when in deeper water. But with the extra nylon, they will be fine. Anne Seabird 45' CHB Pilothouse, Port Townsend, WA Joe Engel wrote: ....the extra length needed for anchoring in deeper water (50-70 Ft)

Every book on anchoring and a huge body of practical experience says you need 7:1 in a blow, more when it gets up. The weight of your anchor is only one of several factors ... the greater the force the less anchor poundage counts and the more scope counts. If you are at 4:1 and you have a break-out in a blow you have no second chance and if you are useing all chain the shock load on the boat presents a real risk of damage to your deck tackle if there is a sea up. Even at 7:1, all chain rode presents a damage risk to most recreational boats in a severe blow. Richard Others on the list will relate experience which says you don't want to risk it. I think there was a Catalina story in December....... ----- Original Message -----

But Richard -- Yes, at Catalina we used to anchor 7:1 and sometimes more. I was speaking of cruising the Pacific Northwest meaning Puget Sound north to Alaska. We never anchor in an exposed anchorage (well, almost never). There are so many coves to duck into that are out of the elements that your only concern is to anchor and not worry about 60 knot winds. Now if we anchored in Port townsend Bay which is designated an "anchorage" you would want to put out 7:1 because the wind always blows and it has a long fetch. So everyone, don't do as we do, do as Richard says. He is correct by the book. But if you come into one of the little Pacific Northwest coves I guess you will have it all to yourself because at 7:1 there will be only enough room for you. Anne (and Bob) Seabird 45' CHB Port Townsend, WA ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard <capn@mortimer.com> To: Anne Reeves <seabird@olypen.com>; Joe Engel <Joe@JRE.com>; <trawler-world-list@samurai.com> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:38 PM Subject: Re: TWL: Windlass > Every book on anchoring and a huge body of practical experience says you > need 7:1 in a blow, more when it gets up. The weight of your anchor is only > one of several factors ... the greater the force the less anchor poundage > counts and the more scope counts. > If you are at 4:1 and you have a break-out in a blow you have no second > chance and if you are useing all chain the shock load on the boat presents a > real risk of damage to your deck tackle if there is a sea up. > Even at 7:1, all chain rode presents a damage risk to most recreational > boats in a severe blow. > Richard > Others on the list will relate experience which says you don't want to risk > it. > I think there was a Catalina story in December....... > ----- Original Message ----- > > >

Richard, The books you are referring to concerning 7:1 scope are referring to rope rodes with little or no chain (<10' of chain), not to an all chain rode. If you look at the Chapman section on anchor scope determination, you will see this in that they specifically recommend 7 or 8:1 as a normal scope for ROPE rodes, but "with all-chain rodes, a scope of 3 to 5 is adequate for all normal conditions". The whole reason to add scope to an anchor rode is to get the rode to lay flat at the point where it pulls on the anchor - that is, to keep the pull horizontal. With chain, you do indeed achieve this same affect with considerably reduced rode length because of the far heavier weight of the chain. As such, you will rarely see a boat with an all chain rode lay to any more then 5 to 1, with 3 or 4 to 1 being the norm. In addition to being able to sleep sounder, the ability to swing in a shorter circle is another benefit to using an all chain rode. Cheers, Kevin -----Original Message----- Every book on anchoring and a huge body of practical experience says you need 7:1 in a blow, more when it gets up. The weight of your anchor is only one of several factors ... the greater the force the less anchor poundage counts and the more scope counts. If you are at 4:1 and you have a break-out in a blow you have no second chance and if you are useing all chain the shock load on the boat presents a real risk of damage to your deck tackle if there is a sea up. Even at 7:1, all chain rode presents a damage risk to most recreational boats in a severe blow. Richard