"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was toned down. I
for one am honored to have George post on this list. Maybe if we offend him
enough (it'll take a lot) he will continue to write. His boats have Ben (pun
intended) the world over and continue to do so today. He advocates building
cheap but capable and has designs that are proven to be cheap and CAPABLE. His
boats may not be featured in Norhavn iIlustrated (passagemaker), but they are
still out there quietly getting the job done. Geoge Buehler would be a great
help in designing the PPM, and along with our other illustrious contributors,
could lend credence to our cause.
Bob you silver tongued thang Ok, I'll answer this but I ain't getting
into regular postings.
You folks need to realize this whole SUBJECT is ridiculous. Ya know
why? because there is NO SUCH THING as a PPM. And the reason for that
is there are many many different ideas about what people want to do
cruising. Each one has a boat that to be "ideal" must meet different
criteria, and few overlap to being ideal for something else and not one
of them is "better" than another one because each specialized idea is
just that; a specialized idea. And when that specialized idea is put in
a different situation than what it is ideal for then suddenly it isn't
ideal, but often can do it. IDLEWILD was ideal for the start of the
trip. I suspect she was pretty good doing the NW Passage too because
she could run up on ice and was less likely to get frozen in. But I'm
not brave enough for that record making passage she made to Australia,
even though shallow light boats, when handled competently, are very
safe. The Vikings proved that one 1,000 years ago. Me, I want brute
strength in inclement situations.
Do you see? Nobody can say they have the "PPM." All they can say
is they have a PPM for what their intended use is. So you must decide
what type of cruising you want to do then pick a design planned out for
that use.
Far to many designers and production factories push pure hype that
what they do is the Cat's Ass. From my point of view many are actually
dangerous in many situations, and almost all are ridiculously
complicated and expensive.. But to each his own. Hate seeing folks get
sucked in to things I KNOW are so often an overpriced mistake but it
ain't my bidness....
OK, that's all I got to say about that. Now I got to get back
reading up about shotguns and bird dogs. Did you know that English
Springers like my boy Bodacious are the oldest domesticated hunting
dog? And full chokes and 7/8 oz loads explode clay targets as good as
the normal 1-1//8 oz and IM chokes but of course require a more exact
aim. Fascinating stuff!
George
bob england wrote:
"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was toned down. I
for one am honored to have George post on this list. Maybe if we offend him
enough (it'll take a lot) he will continue to write. His boats have Ben (pun
intended) the world over and continue to do so today. He advocates building
cheap but capable and has designs that are proven to be cheap and CAPABLE. His
boats may not be featured in Norhavn iIlustrated (passagemaker), but they are
still out there quietly getting the job done. Geoge Buehler would be a great
help in designing the PPM, and along with our other illustrious contributors,
could lend credence to our cause.
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
--
George Buehler Yacht Design
P.O. Box 966, Freeland, WA 98249
Telephone & Fax: (360) 331-5866
http://georgebuehler.com & http://dieselducks.com
George...
Let them design the perfect Passagemaker and price it out, get it built,
market it, sell it and then warranty it.
You can't be more upset than I me over some of these guy's postings.
Success - isn't without its price, you become a target for these guys.
Don't let them get you down George. I would have give up twenty years ago when
our second Nordhavn 46 caught fire due to our faulty design.
Hang it there George...
Very Best Regards,
Jim Leishman
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
George Buehler
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:08 PM
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
Subject: [PUP] PPM Stability
Bob you silver tongued thang Ok, I'll answer this but I ain't getting
into regular postings.
You folks need to realize this whole SUBJECT is ridiculous. Ya know
why? because there is NO SUCH THING as a PPM. And the reason for that
is there are many many different ideas about what people want to do
cruising. Each one has a boat that to be "ideal" must meet different
criteria, and few overlap to being ideal for something else and not one
of them is "better" than another one because each specialized idea is
just that; a specialized idea. And when that specialized idea is put in
a different situation than what it is ideal for then suddenly it isn't
ideal, but often can do it. IDLEWILD was ideal for the start of the
trip. I suspect she was pretty good doing the NW Passage too because
she could run up on ice and was less likely to get frozen in. But I'm
not brave enough for that record making passage she made to Australia,
even though shallow light boats, when handled competently, are very
safe. The Vikings proved that one 1,000 years ago. Me, I want brute
strength in inclement situations.
Do you see? Nobody can say they have the "PPM." All they can say
is they have a PPM for what their intended use is. So you must decide
what type of cruising you want to do then pick a design planned out for
that use.
Far to many designers and production factories push pure hype that
what they do is the Cat's Ass. From my point of view many are actually
dangerous in many situations, and almost all are ridiculously
complicated and expensive.. But to each his own. Hate seeing folks get
sucked in to things I KNOW are so often an overpriced mistake but it
ain't my bidness....
OK, that's all I got to say about that. Now I got to get back
reading up about shotguns and bird dogs. Did you know that English
Springers like my boy Bodacious are the oldest domesticated hunting
dog? And full chokes and 7/8 oz loads explode clay targets as good as
the normal 1-1//8 oz and IM chokes but of course require a more exact
aim. Fascinating stuff!
George
bob england wrote:
"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was toned down. I
for one am honored to have George post on this list. Maybe if we offend him
enough (it'll take a lot) he will continue to write. His boats have Ben (pun
intended) the world over and continue to do so today. He advocates building
cheap but capable and has designs that are proven to be cheap and CAPABLE.
His
boats may not be featured in Norhavn iIlustrated (passagemaker), but they
are
still out there quietly getting the job done. Geoge Buehler would be a great
help in designing the PPM, and along with our other illustrious
contributors,
could lend credence to our cause.
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
--
George Buehler Yacht Design
P.O. Box 966, Freeland, WA 98249
Telephone & Fax: (360) 331-5866
http://georgebuehler.com & http://dieselducks.com
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
George...
After reviewing the last email I sent I was concerned that some of the content
might not be clearly understood (my own fault).
A little clarification:
Dear George,
Let them design the perfect Passagemaker, price it out, get it built, market
it, sell it and then warranty it.
You can't be more upset than I me over some of these postings.
Success - isn't without its price, you become a target for these guys.
Don't let them get you down George. I would have given up twenty years ago
when our second Nordhavn 46 caught fire due to our faulty design.
You're a good designer and your customers have proven it from what I can see.
Hang in there George...
Very Best Regards,
Jim Leishman
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
George Buehler
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:08 PM
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
Subject: [PUP] PPM Stability
Bob you silver tongued thang Ok, I'll answer this but I ain't getting
into regular postings.
You folks need to realize this whole SUBJECT is ridiculous. Ya know
why? because there is NO SUCH THING as a PPM. And the reason for that
is there are many many different ideas about what people want to do
cruising. Each one has a boat that to be "ideal" must meet different
criteria, and few overlap to being ideal for something else and not one
of them is "better" than another one because each specialized idea is
just that; a specialized idea. And when that specialized idea is put in
a different situation than what it is ideal for then suddenly it isn't
ideal, but often can do it. IDLEWILD was ideal for the start of the
trip. I suspect she was pretty good doing the NW Passage too because
she could run up on ice and was less likely to get frozen in. But I'm
not brave enough for that record making passage she made to Australia,
even though shallow light boats, when handled competently, are very
safe. The Vikings proved that one 1,000 years ago. Me, I want brute
strength in inclement situations.
Do you see? Nobody can say they have the "PPM." All they can say
is they have a PPM for what their intended use is. So you must decide
what type of cruising you want to do then pick a design planned out for
that use.
Far to many designers and production factories push pure hype that
what they do is the Cat's Ass. From my point of view many are actually
dangerous in many situations, and almost all are ridiculously
complicated and expensive.. But to each his own. Hate seeing folks get
sucked in to things I KNOW are so often an overpriced mistake but it
ain't my bidness....
OK, that's all I got to say about that. Now I got to get back
reading up about shotguns and bird dogs. Did you know that English
Springers like my boy Bodacious are the oldest domesticated hunting
dog? And full chokes and 7/8 oz loads explode clay targets as good as
the normal 1-1//8 oz and IM chokes but of course require a more exact
aim. Fascinating stuff!
George
bob england wrote:
"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was toned down. I
for one am honored to have George post on this list. Maybe if we offend him
enough (it'll take a lot) he will continue to write. His boats have Ben (pun
intended) the world over and continue to do so today. He advocates building
cheap but capable and has designs that are proven to be cheap and CAPABLE.
His
boats may not be featured in Norhavn iIlustrated (passagemaker), but they
are
still out there quietly getting the job done. Geoge Buehler would be a great
help in designing the PPM, and along with our other illustrious
contributors,
could lend credence to our cause.
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
--
George Buehler Yacht Design
P.O. Box 966, Freeland, WA 98249
Telephone & Fax: (360) 331-5866
http://georgebuehler.com & http://dieselducks.com
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
Possibly, powerboats of our type are just so much more diverse than other
kinds of boats that a PPM would be difficult to define. One fellow wants a
bluewater boat that can also gunkhole and the next guy wants a shallow draft
boat that can go across oceans. The defining characteristic here is the abilty
to cross big water, and the owners acceptance of the compromizes required for
that. Great big windows won't work, but they're great at the dock. Shallow
draft is good in the lake but is a liabilty offshore. It's kinda cool sitting
on top of a weddin cake boat in calm water, not so much fun in a beam sea. I
definitely agree that some companies are selling boats as the do all end all
of ocean capable passagemakers, and maybe they are that, I don't know myself,
but lots of other less hyped boats are out there doin it to. I do think that
the compromizes we make for the PPM should err toward the ocean capable side.
I would not know about 1&1/8 ounce loads (that's a rather large bore isn't it)
as I shoot a .410 custom shop Winchester lever gun at birds. I would also
disagree that springers are the oldest hunting dog breed. Setters hold that
distinction, of which I have owned a bunch, and pointers, brits, shorthairs,
wirehairs, etc, I was a birdhunting guide for 15 years, and am very
opinionated about this (fascinating) stuff. I would love to discuss boats,
birds and bourbon with George in person some day.> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008
18:08:13 -0800> From: design@georgebuehler.com> To:
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Subject: [PUP] PPM Stability> >
Bob you silver tongued thang Ok, I'll answer this but I ain't getting > into
regular postings. > You folks need to realize this whole SUBJECT is
ridiculous. Ya know > why? because there is NO SUCH THING as a PPM. And the
reason for that > is there are many many different ideas about what people
want to do > cruising. Each one has a boat that to be "ideal" must meet
different > criteria, and few overlap to being ideal for something else and
not one > of them is "better" than another one because each specialized idea
is > just that; a specialized idea. And when that specialized idea is put in >
a different situation than what it is ideal for then suddenly it isn't >
ideal, but often can do it. IDLEWILD was ideal for the start of the > trip. I
suspect she was pretty good doing the NW Passage too because > she could run
up on ice and was less likely to get frozen in. But I'm > not brave enough for
that record making passage she made to Australia, > even though shallow light
boats, when handled competently, are very > safe. The Vikings proved that one
1,000 years ago. Me, I want brute > strength in inclement situations.> Do you
see? Nobody can say they have the "PPM." All they can say > is they have a PPM
for what their intended use is. So you must decide > what type of cruising you
want to do then pick a design planned out for > that use.> Far to many
designers and production factories push pure hype that > what they do is the
Cat's Ass. From my point of view many are actually > dangerous in many
situations, and almost all are ridiculously > complicated and expensive.. But
to each his own. Hate seeing folks get > sucked in to things I KNOW are so
often an overpriced mistake but it > ain't my bidness....> OK, that's all I
got to say about that. Now I got to get back > reading up about shotguns and
bird dogs. Did you know that English > Springers like my boy Bodacious are the
oldest domesticated hunting > dog? And full chokes and 7/8 oz loads explode
clay targets as good as > the normal 1-1//8 oz and IM chokes but of course
require a more exact > aim. Fascinating stuff!> > George> > bob england
wrote:> > >"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was
toned down. I> >for one am honored to have George post on this list. Maybe if
we offend him> >enough (it'll take a lot) he will continue to write. His boats
have Ben (pun> >intended) the world over and continue to do so today. He
advocates building> >cheap but capable and has designs that are proven to be
cheap and CAPABLE. His> >boats may not be featured in Norhavn iIlustrated
(passagemaker), but they are> >still out there quietly getting the job done.
Geoge Buehler would be a great> >help in designing the PPM, and along with our
other illustrious contributors,> >could lend credence to our cause.>
_______________________________________________>
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power> >> >To
unsubscribe send email to>
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word>
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.> >>
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.> >> >> > > >> > -- > > George
Buehler Yacht Design > P.O. Box 966, Freeland, WA 98249 > Telephone & Fax:
(360) 331-5866> http://georgebuehler.com & http://dieselducks.com>
_______________________________________________>
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power> > To
unsubscribe send email to> passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com
with the word> UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the
message.> > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.>
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
NO No SPRINGERS were first used to spring birds up into nets, back before
bows and arrows were even invented. And then when shotguns came along
springers did too but nowadays they also retrieve when trained for it.
Yes, I'm referring to 12 guage, but, when loaded for 7/8 oz, it
duplicates a 20. I'm not good enough for 410 yet. Oh, I own two SKBs,
a Rotwild, a Browning, and a Perazzi. The SKB is probably the best but
the Perazzi is sure purty.....
George
Possibly, powerboats of our type are just so much more diverse than other
kinds of boats that a PPM would be difficult to define. One fellow wants a
bluewater boat that can also gunkhole and the next guy wants a shallow
draft
boat that can go across oceans. The defining characteristic here is the
abilty
to cross big water, and the owners acceptance of the compromizes required
for
that. Great big windows won't work, but they're great at the dock.
Shallow
draft is good in the lake but is a liabilty offshore. It's kinda cool
sitting
on top of a weddin cake boat in calm water, not so much fun in a beam sea.
I
definitely agree that some companies are selling boats as the do all end
all
of ocean capable passagemakers, and maybe they are that, I don't know
myself,
but lots of other less hyped boats are out there doin it to. I do think
that
the compromizes we make for the PPM should err toward the ocean capable
side.
I would not know about 1&1/8 ounce loads (that's a rather large bore isn't
it)
as I shoot a .410 custom shop Winchester lever gun at birds. I would also
disagree that springers are the oldest hunting dog breed. Setters hold
that
distinction, of which I have owned a bunch, and pointers, brits,
shorthairs,
wirehairs, etc, I was a birdhunting guide for 15 years, and am very
opinionated about this (fascinating) stuff. I would love to discuss boats,
birds and bourbon with George in person some day.> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008
18:08:13 -0800> From: design@georgebuehler.com> To:
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Subject: [PUP] PPM Stability>
Bob you silver tongued thang Ok, I'll answer this but I ain't getting >
into
regular postings. > You folks need to realize this whole SUBJECT is
ridiculous. Ya know > why? because there is NO SUCH THING as a PPM. And
the
reason for that > is there are many many different ideas about what people
want to do > cruising. Each one has a boat that to be "ideal" must meet
different > criteria, and few overlap to being ideal for something else
and
not one > of them is "better" than another one because each specialized
idea
is > just that; a specialized idea. And when that specialized idea is put
in >
a different situation than what it is ideal for then suddenly it isn't >
ideal, but often can do it. IDLEWILD was ideal for the start of the >
trip. I
suspect she was pretty good doing the NW Passage too because > she could
run
up on ice and was less likely to get frozen in. But I'm > not brave enough
for
that record making passage she made to Australia, > even though shallow
light
boats, when handled competently, are very > safe. The Vikings proved that
one
1,000 years ago. Me, I want brute > strength in inclement situations.> Do
you
see? Nobody can say they have the "PPM." All they can say > is they have a
PPM
for what their intended use is. So you must decide > what type of cruising
you
want to do then pick a design planned out for > that use.> Far to many
designers and production factories push pure hype that > what they do is
the
Cat's Ass. From my point of view many are actually > dangerous in many
situations, and almost all are ridiculously > complicated and expensive..
But
to each his own. Hate seeing folks get > sucked in to things I KNOW are so
often an overpriced mistake but it > ain't my bidness....> OK, that's all
I
got to say about that. Now I got to get back > reading up about shotguns
and
bird dogs. Did you know that English > Springers like my boy Bodacious are
the
oldest domesticated hunting > dog? And full chokes and 7/8 oz loads
explode
clay targets as good as > the normal 1-1//8 oz and IM chokes but of course
require a more exact > aim. Fascinating stuff!> > George> > bob england
wrote:> > >"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was
toned down. I> >for one am honored to have George post on this list. Maybe
if
we offend him> >enough (it'll take a lot) he will continue to write. His
boats
have Ben (pun> >intended) the world over and continue to do so today. He
advocates building> >cheap but capable and has designs that are proven to
be
cheap and CAPABLE. His> >boats may not be featured in Norhavn iIlustrated
(passagemaker), but they are> >still out there quietly getting the job
done.
Geoge Buehler would be a great> >help in designing the PPM, and along with
our
other illustrious contributors,> >could lend credence to our cause.>
_______________________________________________>
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power> >>
To
unsubscribe send email to>
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word>
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.> >>
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.> >> >> > > >> > -- > > George
Buehler Yacht Design > P.O. Box 966, Freeland, WA 98249 > Telephone & Fax:
(360) 331-5866> http://georgebuehler.com & http://dieselducks.com>
_______________________________________________>
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power> > To
unsubscribe send email to>
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com
with the word> UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the
message.> > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water
World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.>
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows
Live
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
Easy, JIm. I have followed most of the posts relative to the PPM and I am
not aware of anyone throwing you or anyone else to the dogs. Surely you
would agree that not everyone is going to like or prefer your boats over
someone else's. You and your team build Nordhavns that are beautiful,
extremely capable and expensive. I say expensive only in the sense that
they cost more than most people's homes. I am certain that they are worth
every penny your owner's pay. No one has said or implied that you or George
aren't providing value for you customer's money. The thing here is that
most people will never be able to afford such a vessel.
I believe that Scott, when he originally broached this topic, intended to
inject a little fun and energy into the PUP list by asking what the listees
here thought would make the perfect passagemaker.
Jim wrote:
Don't let them get you down George. I would have give up twenty years ago
when
our second Nordhavn 46 caught fire due to our faulty design.
Sure glad you didn't give up! George, Too!
Keith
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Jim Leishman jim@nordhavn.com wrote:
George...
Let them design the perfect Passagemaker and price it out, get it built,
market it, sell it and then warranty it.
You can't be more upset than I me over some of these guy's postings.
Success - isn't without its price, you become a target for these guys.
Don't let them get you down George. I would have give up twenty years ago
when
our second Nordhavn 46 caught fire due to our faulty design.
Hang it there George...
Very Best Regards,
Jim Leishman
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
George Buehler
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:08 PM
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
Subject: [PUP] PPM Stability
Bob you silver tongued thang Ok, I'll answer this but I ain't getting
into regular postings.
You folks need to realize this whole SUBJECT is ridiculous. Ya know
why? because there is NO SUCH THING as a PPM. And the reason for that
is there are many many different ideas about what people want to do
cruising. Each one has a boat that to be "ideal" must meet different
criteria, and few overlap to being ideal for something else and not one
of them is "better" than another one because each specialized idea is
just that; a specialized idea. And when that specialized idea is put in
a different situation than what it is ideal for then suddenly it isn't
ideal, but often can do it. IDLEWILD was ideal for the start of the
trip. I suspect she was pretty good doing the NW Passage too because
she could run up on ice and was less likely to get frozen in. But I'm
not brave enough for that record making passage she made to Australia,
even though shallow light boats, when handled competently, are very
safe. The Vikings proved that one 1,000 years ago. Me, I want brute
strength in inclement situations.
Do you see? Nobody can say they have the "PPM." All they can say
is they have a PPM for what their intended use is. So you must decide
what type of cruising you want to do then pick a design planned out for
that use.
Far to many designers and production factories push pure hype that
what they do is the Cat's Ass. From my point of view many are actually
dangerous in many situations, and almost all are ridiculously
complicated and expensive.. But to each his own. Hate seeing folks get
sucked in to things I KNOW are so often an overpriced mistake but it
ain't my bidness....
OK, that's all I got to say about that. Now I got to get back
reading up about shotguns and bird dogs. Did you know that English
Springers like my boy Bodacious are the oldest domesticated hunting
dog? And full chokes and 7/8 oz loads explode clay targets as good as
the normal 1-1//8 oz and IM chokes but of course require a more exact
aim. Fascinating stuff!
George
bob england wrote:
"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was toned down.
I
for one am honored to have George post on this list. Maybe if we offend
him
enough (it'll take a lot) he will continue to write. His boats have Ben
(pun
intended) the world over and continue to do so today. He advocates
building
cheap but capable and has designs that are proven to be cheap and CAPABLE.
His
boats may not be featured in Norhavn iIlustrated (passagemaker), but they
are
still out there quietly getting the job done. Geoge Buehler would be a
great
help in designing the PPM, and along with our other illustrious
contributors,
could lend credence to our cause.
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--
George Buehler Yacht Design
P.O. Box 966, Freeland, WA 98249
Telephone & Fax: (360) 331-5866
http://georgebuehler.com & http://dieselducks.com
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Thanks Keith.
I think we all have good intent and I hate to see George's designs or (anyone
else) get wrongfully criticized.
I stood up for Diesel Duck 13 years ago in my revision of "Voyaging Under
Power" as a good alternative to a production "high cost boat".
Nothing I've seen in subsequent years would cause me to regret that positive
review of his design.
Thanks very much for your kind message.
I better shut up now!!!!
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Keith McGregor
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:45 PM
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Stability
Easy, JIm. I have followed most of the posts relative to the PPM and I am
not aware of anyone throwing you or anyone else to the dogs. Surely you
would agree that not everyone is going to like or prefer your boats over
someone else's. You and your team build Nordhavns that are beautiful,
extremely capable and expensive. I say expensive only in the sense that
they cost more than most people's homes. I am certain that they are worth
every penny your owner's pay. No one has said or implied that you or George
aren't providing value for you customer's money. The thing here is that
most people will never be able to afford such a vessel.
I believe that Scott, when he originally broached this topic, intended to
inject a little fun and energy into the PUP list by asking what the listees
here thought would make the perfect passagemaker.
Jim wrote:
Don't let them get you down George. I would have give up twenty years ago
when
our second Nordhavn 46 caught fire due to our faulty design.
Sure glad you didn't give up! George, Too!
Keith
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Jim Leishman jim@nordhavn.com wrote:
George...
Let them design the perfect Passagemaker and price it out, get it built,
market it, sell it and then warranty it.
You can't be more upset than I me over some of these guy's postings.
Success - isn't without its price, you become a target for these guys.
Don't let them get you down George. I would have give up twenty years ago
when
our second Nordhavn 46 caught fire due to our faulty design.
Hang it there George...
Very Best Regards,
Jim Leishman
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
George Buehler
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:08 PM
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
Subject: [PUP] PPM Stability
Bob you silver tongued thang Ok, I'll answer this but I ain't getting
into regular postings.
You folks need to realize this whole SUBJECT is ridiculous. Ya know
why? because there is NO SUCH THING as a PPM. And the reason for that
is there are many many different ideas about what people want to do
cruising. Each one has a boat that to be "ideal" must meet different
criteria, and few overlap to being ideal for something else and not one
of them is "better" than another one because each specialized idea is
just that; a specialized idea. And when that specialized idea is put in
a different situation than what it is ideal for then suddenly it isn't
ideal, but often can do it. IDLEWILD was ideal for the start of the
trip. I suspect she was pretty good doing the NW Passage too because
she could run up on ice and was less likely to get frozen in. But I'm
not brave enough for that record making passage she made to Australia,
even though shallow light boats, when handled competently, are very
safe. The Vikings proved that one 1,000 years ago. Me, I want brute
strength in inclement situations.
Do you see? Nobody can say they have the "PPM." All they can say
is they have a PPM for what their intended use is. So you must decide
what type of cruising you want to do then pick a design planned out for
that use.
Far to many designers and production factories push pure hype that
what they do is the Cat's Ass. From my point of view many are actually
dangerous in many situations, and almost all are ridiculously
complicated and expensive.. But to each his own. Hate seeing folks get
sucked in to things I KNOW are so often an overpriced mistake but it
ain't my bidness....
OK, that's all I got to say about that. Now I got to get back
reading up about shotguns and bird dogs. Did you know that English
Springers like my boy Bodacious are the oldest domesticated hunting
dog? And full chokes and 7/8 oz loads explode clay targets as good as
the normal 1-1//8 oz and IM chokes but of course require a more exact
aim. Fascinating stuff!
George
bob england wrote:
"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was toned down.
I
for one am honored to have George post on this list. Maybe if we offend
him
enough (it'll take a lot) he will continue to write. His boats have Ben
(pun
intended) the world over and continue to do so today. He advocates
building
cheap but capable and has designs that are proven to be cheap and CAPABLE.
His
boats may not be featured in Norhavn iIlustrated (passagemaker), but they
are
still out there quietly getting the job done. Geoge Buehler would be a
great
help in designing the PPM, and along with our other illustrious
contributors,
could lend credence to our cause.
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
--
George Buehler Yacht Design
P.O. Box 966, Freeland, WA 98249
Telephone & Fax: (360) 331-5866
http://georgebuehler.com & http://dieselducks.com
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
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UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
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To unsubscribe send email to
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UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
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To unsubscribe send email to
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formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
George is a dog lover. I am a dog lover. George's Wife is a dog lover and
shows their dog. George's dog, me, I'm Ron's dog named George (a Golden) and
we're offended by anyone going next door and taking advantage of our
relatives. Shame on you George Buehler - may an Orca bite you in your bum!
BTW, that 60 footer sure is nice. I like double enders.
Woof,
George Rogers
1985 Willard 40 FBS
-----Original Message-----
From: bob england
"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was toned down.
In regards to WHAT George Buehler said:
" You folks need to realize this whole SUBJECT is ridiculous. Ya know why?
because there is NO SUCH THING as a PPM"
THANK 'GOD' somebody with some common sense at last!
It is an useless exercise trying to design a 'PPM' because one will NEVER
get to agree to a design that will please all, a part of brushing their big
egos talking about it endlessly and displaying 'SOME' knowledge about the
subject.
And as for you Jim Leishman, good on you that have given it up giving
attention to all that long ago!
One think that I said to Chris (my captain) when I started to read all this
postings about the PPM, is that by the end of all this useless exercise, all
those folks would end up appreciating their boats (Nordhavn, if that is the
case) even more and understanding HOW HARD MUST IT BE to design a very good
boat for a good price has the Nordhavns are, even tough they are not
'perfect'.
Why don't you all get back talking about REAL issues that will really make a
difference on our boating lives?
Just a thought!
Sonaia Hermida
Goleen, NH5729
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 5:05 AM, Ron Rogers rcrogers6@kennett.net wrote:
George is a dog lover. I am a dog lover. George's Wife is a dog lover and
shows their dog. George's dog, me, I'm Ron's dog named George (a Golden)
and
we're offended by anyone going next door and taking advantage of our
relatives. Shame on you George Buehler - may an Orca bite you in your bum!
BTW, that 60 footer sure is nice. I like double enders.
Woof,
George Rogers
1985 Willard 40 FBS
-----Original Message-----
From: bob england
"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was toned down.
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Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
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