After reading all the opinions here I decided to post this e-mail conversation I've had with Bob Smith over the past couple of days. Please forgive the length, but if you read thru, starting at the bottom of course, it makes sense and deals directly with the subject at hand. I'm just trying to put some science to this rather than simply say "cleaner is better" since I'm trying to work thru some issues. Jay Leonard Dear Jay, I normally only put one primary filter in the suction line to the tank. Having a second filter to tee off if needed is fine, but don't like pulling fuel through the 900 and the 500's all the time. The filter area of the 500 is too small so you will be changing elements too often. I would use the 30 in the 900 not use the 500's all the time. Put the approved 296 in the secondary and get on with things. It sounds like you are in good shape. Best regards, Bob Smith Please reply to: bobsmithadc@juno.com On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:24:50 -0400 "Leonard, Jay D." <jay.leonard@timken.com> writes: Bob, Thanks for the reply...I read it at 6 this morning and I'm still trying to read between the lines so please bear with me a minute.... The boat's primary (I bought her last year) is a dual Racor 500 with 2 micron elements. On my maiden 9 day trip from Rochester to Mystic I was changing elements every 6 running hours...I'd get 5 or so in Hg vacuum and the Lehman would die. Filters were a little dirty, but not discusting looking. Fuel in the bowls is definately red tinted, not black. I did change the secondaries once during the trip and they were pristine looking...as I would expect with 2 microns ahead of them. I installed the Delphi elements I bought from your company. So after talking with someone (I forget whom) in your office, I bought a flex hose kit and installed it along with the new lift pump I bought last fall. I also installed a Racor 900 (I had it lying around) ahead of the dual Racor as a "bulk" filter and currently have a 10 micron element in it. I also replaced all the old copper from that point to the engine with 3/8 hose...and made sure everything was tight with no air leaks. This past weekend I ran a total of 8 1/2 hours...0 reading on the 10 micron Racor and about 1 to 2 on the 2 micron Racor. So things are better. And will get better as I borrowed a fuel filtering rig and will run that this weekend for a couple of days. So what you're telling me is that the primary should be 30 micron...so I'll read between the lines that the secondaries should be 7 to 10 micron (??) .....and that the Lehman can chew those up like nothing. If my understanding and logic is correct then I'll put a 30 micron in the "bulk" Racor and 10 micron in the other Racor. Just trying to get my arms around this...I ran an old Perkins for years with what looked like worse fuel and never had this many problems. Thanks for being patient. Jay Leonard (860) 945-5456 1-800-775-2690 ext 5456 FAX (860) 945-5403 jay.leonard@timken.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- From: Bob Smith [mailto:bobsmithadc@juno.com] Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 5:07 PM To: Leonard, Jay D. Subject: Re: Lehman engine...fuel filter element size? Dear Jay, Don't waste your time trying to figure out the meaning of life. The secondary filter to be used should be the secondary filter manufactured by the producer of the injection equipment. CAV secondary elements were part number 296-7111. Now that they are Adelphi they are part number 296. This micron will be correct and should be changed every time the primary 30 micron elements are changed. If you have a vacuum gauge installed in the primary line, don't screw around when you begin to get a reading. There are many variables such as number of restrictions, tubing size, elbows and the length of the lines. We like to use the gauge as a warning that there is a restriction. That restriction will shut you down in a hurry, should you get into some rough seas. Living with an increased reading from that of fresh filters at cruise speed is like having a little cancer. Don't mess around with it! Best regards, Bob Smith Please reply to: bobsmithadc@juno.com On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:16:34 -0400 "Leonard, Jay D." <jay.leonard@timken.com> writes: Bob, I have a question that seems to have many answers on trawlers and trawlering so I'm asking the expert. What is the micron size rating for the fuel filters that are mounted on the FL 120 engine? Or should I say what is it supposed to be? And how much vacuum (measured at the primary) should the engine, with a new lift pump, be able to live with before it stumbles from starvation? Thanks. Jay Leonard Jay Leonard (860) 945-5456 1-800-775-2690 ext 5456 FAX (860) 945-5403 jay.leonard@timken.com ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation

I think the thing you need to keep in mind when reading the posts from people like Bob Lowe or Bob Smith (and others on this list) is that they are probably running pretty clean fuel to begin with as I'm sure they are diligent about keeping it that way. So, if that's the case, it probably doesn't matter wether you run a 30 micron primary and a 2 micron seconday and change both every year, or run a 2 micron primary and a 2 micron secondary and just change the primary when it's necessary and the secondary less often but on a regular basis. The problem is not what filter should I use, but how to get/keep your fuel relatively clean in the first place. At least that's the way I understand it. A thought I had on Jay's situation if he can't get his fuel supply fairly clean using the borrowed fuel polishing unit is that I wonder if installing a small (30 gallon or less) day tank and using a walbro pump to pull the fuel through his Racor 900 with 10 or 30 micron filter into the day tank and then using the dual racor 500s with 2 micron filters as the primary with fuel coming from the day tank would help? That would take care of Bob Smith's concern about pulling fuel through two filters. Dale Klahn >>> "Leonard, Jay D." <jay.leonard@timken.com> 10:24 AM 6/29/06/06 >>> After reading all the opinions here I decided to post this e-mail conversation I've had with Bob Smith over the past couple of days. Please forgive the length, but if you read thru, starting at the bottom of course, it makes sense and deals directly with the subject at hand. I'm just trying to put some science to this rather than simply say "cleaner is better" since I'm trying to work thru some issues. Jay Leonard Dear Jay, I normally only put one primary filter in the suction line to the tank. Having a second filter to tee off if needed is fine, but don't like pulling fuel through the 900 and the 500's all the time. The filter area of the 500 is too small so you will be changing elements too often. I would use the 30 in the 900 not use the 500's all the time. Put the approved 296 in the secondary and get on with things. It sounds like you are in good shape. Best regards, Bob Smith Please reply to: bobsmithadc@juno.com On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:24:50 -0400 "Leonard, Jay D." <jay.leonard@timken.com> writes: Bob, Thanks for the reply...I read it at 6 this morning and I'm still trying to read between the lines so please bear with me a minute.... The boat's primary (I bought her last year) is a dual Racor 500 with 2 micron elements. On my maiden 9 day trip from Rochester to Mystic I was changing elements every 6 running hours...I'd get 5 or so in Hg vacuum and the Lehman would die. Filters were a little dirty, but not discusting looking. Fuel in the bowls is definately red tinted, not black. I did change the secondaries once during the trip and they were pristine looking...as I would expect with 2 microns ahead of them. I installed the Delphi elements I bought from your company. So after talking with someone (I forget whom) in your office, I bought a flex hose kit and installed it along with the new lift pump I bought last fall. I also installed a Racor 900 (I had it lying around) ahead of the dual Racor as a "bulk" filter and currently have a 10 micron element in it. I also replaced all the old copper from that point to the engine with 3/8 hose...and made sure everything was tight with no air leaks. This past weekend I ran a total of 8 1/2 hours...0 reading on the 10 micron Racor and about 1 to 2 on the 2 micron Racor. So things are better. And will get better as I borrowed a fuel filtering rig and will run that this weekend for a couple of days. So what you're telling me is that the primary should be 30 micron...so I'll read between the lines that the secondaries should be 7 to 10 micron (??) .....and that the Lehman can chew those up like nothing. If my understanding and logic is correct then I'll put a 30 micron in the "bulk" Racor and 10 micron in the other Racor. Just trying to get my arms around this...I ran an old Perkins for years with what looked like worse fuel and never had this many problems. Thanks for being patient. Jay Leonard (860) 945-5456 1-800-775-2690 ext 5456 FAX (860) 945-5403 jay.leonard@timken.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- From: Bob Smith [mailto:bobsmithadc@juno.com] Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 5:07 PM To: Leonard, Jay D. Subject: Re: Lehman engine...fuel filter element size? Dear Jay, Don't waste your time trying to figure out the meaning of life. The secondary filter to be used should be the secondary filter manufactured by the producer of the injection equipment. CAV secondary elements were part number 296-7111. Now that they are Adelphi they are part number 296. This micron will be correct and should be changed every time the primary 30 micron elements are changed. If you have a vacuum gauge installed in the primary line, don't screw around when you begin to get a reading. There are many variables such as number of restrictions, tubing size, elbows and the length of the lines. We like to use the gauge as a warning that there is a restriction. That restriction will shut you down in a hurry, should you get into some rough seas. Living with an increased reading from that of fresh filters at cruise speed is like having a little cancer. Don't mess around with it! Best regards, Bob Smith Please reply to: bobsmithadc@juno.com On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:16:34 -0400 "Leonard, Jay D." <jay.leonard@timken.com> writes: Bob, I have a question that seems to have many answers on trawlers and trawlering so I'm asking the expert. What is the micron size rating for the fuel filters that are mounted on the FL 120 engine? Or should I say what is it supposed to be? And how much vacuum (measured at the primary) should the engine, with a new lift pump, be able to live with before it stumbles from starvation? Thanks. Jay Leonard Jay Leonard (860) 945-5456 1-800-775-2690 ext 5456 FAX (860) 945-5403 jay.leonard@timken.com ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation _______________________________________________ http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering To unsubscribe send email to trawlers-and-trawlering-request@lists.samurai.com with the word UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.