I would add that one could run the experiment over a full year. Antonio I8IOV I wrote: > >Looking at fig. 4 at >http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0608/0608205v1.pdf >I still doubt that the De Witte results would be so simply dismissed. >The experiment started on early June and ended on late November, and the >temperature cycle over such a period is not a ramp, still having to cross the >warmest months before starting to drop. >The De Witte cable was buried, but how deep is not mentioned. >I would see the experiment repeated. >Antonio I8IOV > >tvb wrote: > >>Hi Steven, >> >>You can contact me off-line about this if you want more information. >> >>Being someone with plenty of cesium clocks I looked into his claims in the >late 90's. His cables and electronics were not at all temperature compensated. >It's a simple mistake we all make at one point or another in our time-nuts >career. >> >>Once you deal with tempco correctly no one has problems like he saw, whether >your clocks are as old as the one he used in 1991 or modern ones that are ten >to a thousand times more accurate. >> >>Note he ran his experiment for 178 days. If you run a ground temperature >experiment for a full year (or years) you get complete temperature cycles; if >you happen to pick only half a year, starting early summer as he did, you get a >slow ramp. >> >>When you combine diurnal changes (which he saw) with half-year ramps (which >he mis-interpreted) you get a solar-sidereal effect that looks extra- >terrestrial. Roland was a little too eager to prove aether exists and textbooks >were wrong. Unfortunately he died shortly before I could email him about his >methods and raw data. That was, what, 15 years ago. >> >>/tvb >>www.LeapSecond.com >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Steven Kluck" <skluck_98@yahoo.com> >>To: "Discussion precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> >>Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:25 AM >>Subject: [time-nuts] de Witte's Experiment >> >> >>I am new to this group, and my main interest is time keeping/ time signal >reception, but all of this frequency talk is catching my interest. >> >>If >> I had a couple of extra cesium frequency references, I would want to >>try Roland de Witte's experiment. Simple and fascinating! Position one >> clock about 1500 meters to the east of the other, set up a long >>(temperature controlled) coax cable between them, and compare phase from >> the 10MHz outputs as the earth turns. The results were enough to make >>de Witte a fairly unpopular gentleman until his death. --Steven Kluck >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts >>and follow the instructions there. >> > >_______________________________________________ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. >

Using two TBolts? On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 12:00 PM, iovane@inwind.it <iovane@inwind.it> wrote: > I would add that one could run the experiment over a full year. > Antonio I8IOV > > I wrote: >> >>Looking at fig. 4 at >>http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0608/0608205v1.pdf >>I still doubt that the De Witte results would be so simply dismissed. >>The experiment started on early June and ended on late November, and the >>temperature cycle over such a period is not a ramp, still having to cross > the >>warmest months before starting to drop. >>The De Witte cable was buried, but how deep is not mentioned. >>I would see the experiment repeated. >>Antonio I8IOV >> >>tvb wrote: >> >>>Hi Steven, >>> >>>You can contact me off-line about this if you want more information. >>> >>>Being someone with plenty of cesium clocks I looked into his claims in the >>late 90's. His cables and electronics were not at all temperature > compensated. >>It's a simple mistake we all make at one point or another in our time-nuts >>career. >>> >>>Once you deal with tempco correctly no one has problems like he saw, > whether >>your clocks are as old as the one he used in 1991 or modern ones that are > ten >>to a thousand times more accurate. >>> >>>Note he ran his experiment for 178 days. If you run a ground temperature >>experiment for a full year (or years) you get complete temperature cycles; > if >>you happen to pick only half a year, starting early summer as he did, you get > a >>slow ramp. >>> >>>When you combine diurnal changes (which he saw) with half-year ramps (which >>he mis-interpreted) you get a solar-sidereal effect that looks extra- >>terrestrial. Roland was a little too eager to prove aether exists and > textbooks >>were wrong. Unfortunately he died shortly before I could email him about his >>methods and raw data. That was, what, 15 years ago. >>> >>>/tvb >>>www.LeapSecond.com >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Steven Kluck" <skluck_98@yahoo.com> >>>To: "Discussion precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> >>>Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:25 AM >>>Subject: [time-nuts] de Witte's Experiment >>> >>> >>>I am new to this group, and my main interest is time keeping/ time signal >>reception, but all of this frequency talk is catching my interest. >>> >>>If >>> I had a couple of extra cesium frequency references, I would want to >>>try Roland de Witte's experiment. Simple and fascinating! Position one >>> clock about 1500 meters to the east of the other, set up a long >>>(temperature controlled) coax cable between them, and compare phase from >>> the 10MHz outputs as the earth turns. The results were enough to make >>>de Witte a fairly unpopular gentleman until his death. --Steven Kluck >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- > nuts >>>and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>and follow the instructions there. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

In message <1629133352.2066701377684015960.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>, "iovane@inwind.it" writes: >I would add that one could run the experiment over a full year. Please consider: 1. Nailing relativity is the biggest scalp you can aim for in physics. 2. NIST and timing.com showed sub-picosecond time-transfer over a 200km fiber in AZ: http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/1807.pdf Wouldn't you expect them to have noticed if a Nobel-prize were in reach ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Le 28 août 2013 à 12:23, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit : > In message <1629133352.2066701377684015960.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>, "iovane@inwind.it" writes: > >> I would add that one could run the experiment over a full year. > > Please consider: > > 1. Nailing relativity is the biggest scalp you can aim for in physics. > > 2. NIST and timing.com showed sub-picosecond time-transfer over a 200km fiber in AZ: > http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/1807.pdf > > Wouldn't you expect them to have noticed if a Nobel-prize were in reach ? I think if they were looking they would not have designed the experiment as a loop. Phoenix-Randolph is only 80 odd kms. I am not a physicist but I expect a loop would cause effects to cancel. > > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

On 08/28/2013 12:23 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <1629133352.2066701377684015960.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>, "iovane@inwind.it" writes: > >> I would add that one could run the experiment over a full year. > Please consider: > > 1. Nailing relativity is the biggest scalp you can aim for in physics. > > 2. NIST and timing.com showed sub-picosecond time-transfer over a 200km fiber in AZ: > http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/1807.pdf > > Wouldn't you expect them to have noticed if a Nobel-prize were in reach ? > > Note, they already have a track-record for Nobel prizes as it is. Like last year for instance. Cheers, Magnus

In message <521E52CC.40705@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus Danielson writes: >> Wouldn't you expect them to have noticed if a Nobel-prize were in reach ? >> >Note, they already have a track-record for Nobel prizes as it is. Like >last year for instance. That's why I wouldn't expect them to miss another one :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

It should not be difficult to measure the temperature of the co-ax, if it uses copper, copper has a very high tempco, about the same as platinum. So you could set up an experiment where you compare phase in the two legs then compare resistance of the two legs. Strain in the legs might be an effect. Cheers, Neville Michie