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Re: TWL: Twin 30 AMP Shore Power

D
darden@xtra.co.nz
Fri, Aug 25, 2000 3:49 AM

I'm hoping someone can set me straight on whether it is safe to parallel
two 20 or 30A shore power sources to supply the boat with a single 40 or
40A service. I know that 'Y' pigtails are sold for this purpose. However,
when I discussed with our NZ electrician he said "no way - specifically
not allowed under NZ code".

Many thanks,

Steve


Stephen C. Darden    Email: darden@xtra.co.nz
Adagio Marine Ltd.  Fax:  649/4037-213
P.O. Box 161        Voice: 649/4037-801
Russell
NEW ZEALAND

I'm hoping someone can set me straight on whether it is safe to parallel two 20 or 30A shore power sources to supply the boat with a single 40 or 40A service. I know that 'Y' pigtails are sold for this purpose. However, when I discussed with our NZ electrician he said "no way - specifically not allowed under NZ code". Many thanks, Steve ------------------------------------------------ Stephen C. Darden Email: darden@xtra.co.nz Adagio Marine Ltd. Fax: 649/4037-213 P.O. Box 161 Voice: 649/4037-801 Russell NEW ZEALAND
H
hal@halwyman.com
Fri, Aug 25, 2000 5:06 AM

Dunno about wiring practices in NZ, but there are two potential problems
here in the USA.

  1. You could easily try to parallel two 120v circuits of different phases
    which would result in interesting fireworks.

  2. If you happened to parallel two same-phase, say, 30a circuits, you had
    better be sure that you don't try to draw 60a from the combined supply, else
    you'll probably melt your shore power cord with a current it wasn't designed
    for.  Either that or more likely one of the supply legs will have slightly
    less resistance than the other and will try to supply most/all of the
    current and trip its own breaker.

Hal

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Darden" darden@xtra.co.nz
To: "Trawler List List posting" trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: TWL: Twin 30 AMP Shore Power

I'm hoping someone can set me straight on whether it is safe to parallel
two 20 or 30A shore power sources to supply the boat with a single 40 or
40A service. I know that 'Y' pigtails are sold for this purpose. However,
when I discussed with our NZ electrician he said "no way - specifically
not allowed under NZ code".

Many thanks,

Steve


Stephen C. Darden    Email: darden@xtra.co.nz
Adagio Marine Ltd.  Fax:  649/4037-213
P.O. Box 161        Voice: 649/4037-801
Russell
NEW ZEALAND

Dunno about wiring practices in NZ, but there are two potential problems here in the USA. 1) You could easily try to parallel two 120v circuits of different phases which would result in interesting fireworks. 2) If you happened to parallel two same-phase, say, 30a circuits, you had better be sure that you don't try to draw 60a from the combined supply, else you'll probably melt your shore power cord with a current it wasn't designed for. Either that or more likely one of the supply legs will have slightly less resistance than the other and will try to supply most/all of the current and trip its own breaker. Hal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Darden" <darden@xtra.co.nz> To: "Trawler List List posting" <trawler-world-list@samurai.com> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 8:49 PM Subject: Re: TWL: Twin 30 AMP Shore Power > I'm hoping someone can set me straight on whether it is safe to parallel > two 20 or 30A shore power sources to supply the boat with a single 40 or > 40A service. I know that 'Y' pigtails are sold for this purpose. However, > when I discussed with our NZ electrician he said "no way - specifically > not allowed under NZ code". > > Many thanks, > > Steve > > ------------------------------------------------ > Stephen C. Darden Email: darden@xtra.co.nz > Adagio Marine Ltd. Fax: 649/4037-213 > P.O. Box 161 Voice: 649/4037-801 > Russell > NEW ZEALAND > > >
S
scaramouche@tvo.org
Fri, Aug 25, 2000 1:55 PM

I'm hoping someone can set me straight on whether it is safe to

parallel

two 20 or 30A shore power sources to supply the boat with a single

40 or

40A service

Around here most boats that have that much need for power use two
separate circuits.
At least one skipper explained to me that two 30 Amp cables and
connectors are less expensive than a single 50 or 60 Amp cable and
hardware and he has more flexibility.

Just my $.02 worth.

George of Scaramouche, which - in a pinch - can get by with a 15 Amp
household extension cord while travelling. (Batterie charger,
coffee-maker and microwave)      :-)

hal@halwyman.com writes: >> I'm hoping someone can set me straight on whether it is safe to >parallel >> two 20 or 30A shore power sources to supply the boat with a single >40 or >> 40A service Around here most boats that have that much need for power use two separate circuits. At least one skipper explained to me that two 30 Amp cables and connectors are less expensive than a single 50 or 60 Amp cable and hardware and he has more flexibility. Just my $.02 worth. George of Scaramouche, which - in a pinch - can get by with a 15 Amp household extension cord while travelling. (Batterie charger, coffee-maker and microwave) :-)
JD
jim_donohue@computer.org
Fri, Aug 25, 2000 10:02 PM

Steve - Works sometimes - blows up other times.  Depends on the source of
the two services.  If they are simply two runs from the same electrical
phase it works fine.  If - as I would expect is often the case, they are two
runs from different phases you are going to get fire works when you
interconnect.

You can set your boat up with two different 120 volt runs and run them off
two separate plugs safely.  This would be normal if you have your boat
fitted for 240 for heavy loads and then split that for the 120 volt loads.
Each of those 120 runs can go to a seperate 120 volt plug.

There are commercially available systems that take care of all this.  Mostly
you can do it with a sophisticated autotransformer though it will not work
on some combinations.  Or perhaps more correctly - both the operator and the
autotransformer need to be sophisticated if it is to work in all
circumstances.

I suspect you could qualify for the operator role without much trouble if
you got the correct package.

Jim

Steve - Works sometimes - blows up other times. Depends on the source of the two services. If they are simply two runs from the same electrical phase it works fine. If - as I would expect is often the case, they are two runs from different phases you are going to get fire works when you interconnect. You can set your boat up with two different 120 volt runs and run them off two separate plugs safely. This would be normal if you have your boat fitted for 240 for heavy loads and then split that for the 120 volt loads. Each of those 120 runs can go to a seperate 120 volt plug. There are commercially available systems that take care of all this. Mostly you can do it with a sophisticated autotransformer though it will not work on some combinations. Or perhaps more correctly - both the operator and the autotransformer need to be sophisticated if it is to work in all circumstances. I suspect you could qualify for the operator role without much trouble if you got the correct package. Jim
F
fburrows@csi.com
Fri, Aug 25, 2000 10:46 PM

The way most twin 30 amp or 50 amp boats are factory wired is with a
selector switch that connects both busses and at the same time disconnects
one of the cords. That way there is no possibility of connecting two
different phases together. Both busses must also be joined for the
generator. Ancor and Blue Seas both make sliders for the circuit breakers
to accomplish this.

Frank

Steve - Works sometimes - blows up other times.  Depends on the source of
the two services.  If they are simply two runs from the same electrical
phase it works fine.  If - as I would expect is often the case, they are two
runs from different phases you are going to get fire works when you
interconnect.

The way most twin 30 amp or 50 amp boats are factory wired is with a selector switch that connects both busses and at the same time disconnects one of the cords. That way there is no possibility of connecting two different phases together. Both busses must also be joined for the generator. Ancor and Blue Seas both make sliders for the circuit breakers to accomplish this. Frank > >Steve - Works sometimes - blows up other times. Depends on the source of >the two services. If they are simply two runs from the same electrical >phase it works fine. If - as I would expect is often the case, they are two >runs from different phases you are going to get fire works when you >interconnect.
JD
jim_donohue@computer.org
Sat, Aug 26, 2000 3:59 AM

Frank - Steve's boat is a one off and he is the chief engineer. Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com
[mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Frank Burrows
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 3:47 PM
To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Subject: RE: TWL: Twin 30 AMP Shore Power

The way most twin 30 amp or 50 amp boats are factory wired is with a
selector switch that connects both busses and at the same time disconnects
one of the cords. That way there is no possibility of connecting two
different phases together. Both busses must also be joined for the
generator. Ancor and Blue Seas both make sliders for the circuit breakers
to accomplish this.

Frank

Frank - Steve's boat is a one off and he is the chief engineer. Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Frank Burrows Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 3:47 PM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: RE: TWL: Twin 30 AMP Shore Power The way most twin 30 amp or 50 amp boats are factory wired is with a selector switch that connects both busses and at the same time disconnects one of the cords. That way there is no possibility of connecting two different phases together. Both busses must also be joined for the generator. Ancor and Blue Seas both make sliders for the circuit breakers to accomplish this. Frank
A
asi@visionet.org
Sat, Aug 26, 2000 2:11 PM

Hi Jim
I have 6 kw genset which has a 25 amp 220 circuit and two 25 amp 110 circuits.
Does anyone know the largest capacitor start electric motor which could be used
with such a generator.
BTW
Since I am the sparkie on SusieQ, I have installed the 10/3 30 amp systems
directly to 2 separate breaker boxes: one to inverter the other to AC etc.  I
bought a 250' roll of cable and ran the cable thru the deck in a covered deck
box. No plugs on boat.
Peter Denton

Hi Jim I have 6 kw genset which has a 25 amp 220 circuit and two 25 amp 110 circuits. Does anyone know the largest capacitor start electric motor which could be used with such a generator. BTW Since I am the sparkie on SusieQ, I have installed the 10/3 30 amp systems directly to 2 separate breaker boxes: one to inverter the other to AC etc. I bought a 250' roll of cable and ran the cable thru the deck in a covered deck box. No plugs on boat. Peter Denton
H
hal@halwyman.com
Sat, Aug 26, 2000 7:50 PM

Hi Jim
I have 6 kw genset which has a 25 amp 220 circuit and two 25 amp 110

circuits.

Does anyone know the largest capacitor start electric motor which could be

used

with such a generator.

I think it would be quite dependent on the rotational inertia of the genset,
i.e., the mass of the flywheel.  I have a Panda 6KW that can hardly start a
1.5hp motor but I think other larger heavier 6KW sets could do much better.

Hal

> Hi Jim > I have 6 kw genset which has a 25 amp 220 circuit and two 25 amp 110 circuits. > Does anyone know the largest capacitor start electric motor which could be used > with such a generator. I think it would be quite dependent on the rotational inertia of the genset, i.e., the mass of the flywheel. I have a Panda 6KW that can hardly start a 1.5hp motor but I think other larger heavier 6KW sets could do much better. Hal