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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Ideas for a long-wave receiver sought

MB
Marc Balmer
Mon, Jun 22, 2009 8:11 AM

Hi

I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave receiver which
can be
tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the intended use
is to receive various time signal stations).

Does a chip for such a receiver exist?  Should I take the SDR route?
I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need something
more flexible (and a bit more modern...)

  • Marc Balmer
Hi I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave receiver which can be tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the intended use is to receive various time signal stations). Does a chip for such a receiver exist? Should I take the SDR route? I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need something more flexible (and a bit more modern...) - Marc Balmer
PK
Poul-Henning Kamp
Mon, Jun 22, 2009 8:14 AM

In message 38553AAD-ECC6-4AF8-90B3-42BBEC366CA6@msys.ch, Marc Balmer writes:

I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave receiver which
can be
tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the intended use
is to receive various time signal stations).

Does a chip for such a receiver exist?  Should I take the SDR route?
I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need something
more flexible (and a bit more modern...)

Go SDR.

There are ARM7 chips now that have sufficient ADC quality  to do the
job.

See for instance: http://phk.freebsd.dk/AducLoran

Poul-Henning

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

In message <38553AAD-ECC6-4AF8-90B3-42BBEC366CA6@msys.ch>, Marc Balmer writes: >I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave receiver which >can be >tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the intended use >is to receive various time signal stations). > >Does a chip for such a receiver exist? Should I take the SDR route? >I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need something >more flexible (and a bit more modern...) Go SDR. There are ARM7 chips now that have sufficient ADC quality to do the job. See for instance: http://phk.freebsd.dk/AducLoran Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
MB
Marc Balmer
Mon, Jun 22, 2009 9:30 AM

Am 22.06.2009 um 10:14 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp:

In message 38553AAD-ECC6-4AF8-90B3-42BBEC366CA6@msys.ch, Marc
Balmer writes:

I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave receiver which
can be
tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the intended use
is to receive various time signal stations).

Does a chip for such a receiver exist?  Should I take the SDR route?
I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need something
more flexible (and a bit more modern...)

Go SDR.

There are ARM7 chips now that have sufficient ADC quality  to do the
job.

Ok, thanks.  I happen to have some Overp Earth boards, OMAP 3503
Application Processor with ARM Cortex-A8 CPU, do you think these
will handle the job? (runnin at 600 MHz).  They say it makes up 1200
dhrytsone mips

(www.gumstix.com)

Thanks for the pointer, I already found that, nice work!

  • Marc

Poul-Henning

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
incompetence.


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Am 22.06.2009 um 10:14 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp: > In message <38553AAD-ECC6-4AF8-90B3-42BBEC366CA6@msys.ch>, Marc > Balmer writes: > >> I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave receiver which >> can be >> tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the intended use >> is to receive various time signal stations). >> >> Does a chip for such a receiver exist? Should I take the SDR route? >> I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need something >> more flexible (and a bit more modern...) > > Go SDR. > > There are ARM7 chips now that have sufficient ADC quality to do the > job. Ok, thanks. I happen to have some Overp Earth boards, OMAP 3503 Application Processor with ARM Cortex-A8 CPU, do you think these will handle the job? (runnin at 600 MHz). They say it makes up 1200 dhrytsone mips (www.gumstix.com) > > See for instance: http://phk.freebsd.dk/AducLoran Thanks for the pointer, I already found that, nice work! - Marc > > Poul-Henning > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by > incompetence. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.
PK
Poul-Henning Kamp
Mon, Jun 22, 2009 9:46 AM

In message 70D1E333-26C4-4068-BFAC-30D689BBF3D1@msys.ch, Marc Balmer writes:

Ok, thanks.  I happen to have some Overp Earth boards, OMAP 3503
Application Processor with ARM Cortex-A8 CPU, do you think these
will handle the job? (runnin at 600 MHz).  They say it makes up 1200
dhrytsone mips

It's more a matter of what their ADC can do...

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

In message <70D1E333-26C4-4068-BFAC-30D689BBF3D1@msys.ch>, Marc Balmer writes: >Ok, thanks. I happen to have some Overp Earth boards, OMAP 3503 >Application Processor with ARM Cortex-A8 CPU, do you think these >will handle the job? (runnin at 600 MHz). They say it makes up 1200 >dhrytsone mips It's more a matter of what their ADC can do... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
MB
Marc Balmer
Mon, Jun 22, 2009 10:07 AM

Am 22.06.2009 um 11:46 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp:

In message 70D1E333-26C4-4068-BFAC-30D689BBF3D1@msys.ch, Marc
Balmer writes:

Ok, thanks.  I happen to have some Overp Earth boards, OMAP 3503
Application Processor with ARM Cortex-A8 CPU, do you think these
will handle the job? (runnin at 600 MHz).  They say it makes up 1200
dhrytsone mips

It's more a matter of what their ADC can do...

unfortunately it's "only" a TI TPS65950 which has only an audio codec,
the ADC doing 48kHz max.

Am 22.06.2009 um 11:46 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp: > In message <70D1E333-26C4-4068-BFAC-30D689BBF3D1@msys.ch>, Marc > Balmer writes: > >> Ok, thanks. I happen to have some Overp Earth boards, OMAP 3503 >> Application Processor with ARM Cortex-A8 CPU, do you think these >> will handle the job? (runnin at 600 MHz). They say it makes up 1200 >> dhrytsone mips > > It's more a matter of what their ADC can do... unfortunately it's "only" a TI TPS65950 which has only an audio codec, the ADC doing 48kHz max.
PK
Poul-Henning Kamp
Mon, Jun 22, 2009 10:16 AM

In message 0587CB86-96EF-4660-9FBE-8C1D1FDFBAFB@msys.ch, Marc Balmer writes:

unfortunately it's "only" a TI TPS65950 which has only an audio codec,
the ADC doing 48kHz max.

That's still usable, you could for instance use a "DRM" frontend
like the "pappradio"

There are some links here:

http://www.drmradio.dk/Byggesaet og konvertere-da.htm

Poul-Henning

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

In message <0587CB86-96EF-4660-9FBE-8C1D1FDFBAFB@msys.ch>, Marc Balmer writes: >unfortunately it's "only" a TI TPS65950 which has only an audio codec, >the ADC doing 48kHz max. That's still usable, you could for instance use a "DRM" frontend like the "pappradio" There are some links here: http://www.drmradio.dk/Byggesaet og konvertere-da.htm Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
BC
Brooke Clarke
Mon, Jun 22, 2009 2:18 PM

Hi Marc:

The SDR-IQ has the ability to record everything between 500 Hz and 190 kHz when
used with a fast enough PC.  This is the best of the SDR series for use below
200 kHz.
It can be used with SpectraVue or Winrad.
Works with I2PHD WINRAD, SM5BSZ LINRAD, HOKA and DRM software.  See:
http://www.rfspace.com/SDR-IQ.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SDR-IQ/

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.prc68.com

Marc Balmer wrote:

Hi

I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave receiver which can be
tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the intended use
is to receive various time signal stations).

Does a chip for such a receiver exist?  Should I take the SDR route?
I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need something
more flexible (and a bit more modern...)

  • Marc Balmer

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Marc: The SDR-IQ has the ability to record everything between 500 Hz and 190 kHz when used with a fast enough PC. This is the best of the SDR series for use below 200 kHz. It can be used with SpectraVue or Winrad. Works with I2PHD WINRAD, SM5BSZ LINRAD, HOKA and DRM software. See: http://www.rfspace.com/SDR-IQ.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SDR-IQ/ Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.prc68.com Marc Balmer wrote: > Hi > > I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave receiver which can be > tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the intended use > is to receive various time signal stations). > > Does a chip for such a receiver exist? Should I take the SDR route? > I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need something > more flexible (and a bit more modern...) > > - Marc Balmer > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
MB
Marc Balmer
Mon, Jun 22, 2009 2:41 PM

Am 22.06.2009 um 16:18 schrieb Brooke Clarke:

Hi Marc:

The SDR-IQ has the ability to record everything between 500 Hz and
190 kHz when used with a fast enough PC.  This is the best of the
SDR series for use below 200 kHz.
It can be used with SpectraVue or Winrad.
Works with I2PHD WINRAD, SM5BSZ LINRAD, HOKA and DRM software.  See:
http://www.rfspace.com/SDR-IQ.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SDR-IQ/

very nice, indeed, although it does not fit my definition of cheap.

but then I'd like to get one of these, are the specs and docs open?
I am not using Windows but rather Unix (BSD)

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.prc68.com

Marc Balmer wrote:

Hi
I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave receiver
which can be
tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the intended use
is to receive various time signal stations).
Does a chip for such a receiver exist?  Should I take the SDR route?
I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need something
more flexible (and a bit more modern...)

  • Marc Balmer

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Am 22.06.2009 um 16:18 schrieb Brooke Clarke: > Hi Marc: > > The SDR-IQ has the ability to record everything between 500 Hz and > 190 kHz when used with a fast enough PC. This is the best of the > SDR series for use below 200 kHz. > It can be used with SpectraVue or Winrad. > Works with I2PHD WINRAD, SM5BSZ LINRAD, HOKA and DRM software. See: > http://www.rfspace.com/SDR-IQ.html > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SDR-IQ/ > very nice, indeed, although it does not fit my definition of cheap. but then I'd like to get one of these, are the specs and docs open? I am not using Windows but rather Unix (BSD) > Have Fun, > > Brooke Clarke > http://www.prc68.com > > Marc Balmer wrote: >> Hi >> I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave receiver >> which can be >> tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the intended use >> is to receive various time signal stations). >> Does a chip for such a receiver exist? Should I take the SDR route? >> I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need something >> more flexible (and a bit more modern...) >> - Marc Balmer >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.
PK
Poul-Henning Kamp
Mon, Jun 22, 2009 3:07 PM

In message 4A3F9299.9080505@pacific.net, Brooke Clarke writes:

The SDR-IQ has the ability to record everything between 500 Hz and 190 kHz when
used with a fast enough PC.  This is the best of the SDR series for use below
200 kHz.

I have looked at that earlier, but it does not look like it is feasible
to lock its clock to an atomic reference :-/

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

In message <4A3F9299.9080505@pacific.net>, Brooke Clarke writes: >The SDR-IQ has the ability to record everything between 500 Hz and 190 kHz when >used with a fast enough PC. This is the best of the SDR series for use below >200 kHz. I have looked at that earlier, but it does not look like it is feasible to lock its clock to an atomic reference :-/ -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
LJ
Lux, James P
Mon, Jun 22, 2009 4:13 PM

200kHz is a bit tricky for the top end.. That probably puts the standard music recording A/D out of the picture (although they have very high performance A/Ds in them, and because of large production volume, they're relatively inexpensive).

Almost any PC these days has enough processor to take a 400 ksps stream of samples and filter/decimate it.
Maybe the boards from the HPSDR folks might serve?

Do you need continuous stream of samples? One of the eval boards for high performance A/Ds with a USB might work for you, but last time I checked, they were more oriented to "capture a buffer, then analyze" sorts of approaches.

Your best long range approach might be to use a high quality A/D with a small FPGA behind it that implements a digital down converter, feeding the (lower rate after downconversion/filtering) samples through USB to an application like DL4YHF's spectrum lab.  DL4YHF is very interested in VLF receiving, and he might have good ideas on inexpensive approaches.
http://freenet-homepage.de/dl4yhf/spectra1.html

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
[mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:18 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ideas for a long-wave receiver sought

Hi Marc:

The SDR-IQ has the ability to record everything between 500
Hz and 190 kHz when used with a fast enough PC.  This is the
best of the SDR series for use below 200 kHz.
It can be used with SpectraVue or Winrad.
Works with I2PHD WINRAD, SM5BSZ LINRAD, HOKA and DRM software.  See:
http://www.rfspace.com/SDR-IQ.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SDR-IQ/

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.prc68.com

Marc Balmer wrote:

Hi

I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave

receiver which

can be tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the
intended use is to receive various time signal stations).

Does a chip for such a receiver exist?  Should I take the SDR route?
I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need

something more

flexible (and a bit more modern...)

  • Marc Balmer
200kHz is a bit tricky for the top end.. That probably puts the standard music recording A/D out of the picture (although they have very high performance A/Ds in them, and because of large production volume, they're relatively inexpensive). Almost any PC these days has enough processor to take a 400 ksps stream of samples and filter/decimate it. Maybe the boards from the HPSDR folks might serve? Do you need continuous stream of samples? One of the eval boards for high performance A/Ds with a USB might work for you, but last time I checked, they were more oriented to "capture a buffer, then analyze" sorts of approaches. Your best long range approach might be to use a high quality A/D with a small FPGA behind it that implements a digital down converter, feeding the (lower rate after downconversion/filtering) samples through USB to an application like DL4YHF's spectrum lab. DL4YHF is very interested in VLF receiving, and he might have good ideas on inexpensive approaches. http://freenet-homepage.de/dl4yhf/spectra1.html > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com > [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Brooke Clarke > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:18 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ideas for a long-wave receiver sought > > Hi Marc: > > The SDR-IQ has the ability to record everything between 500 > Hz and 190 kHz when used with a fast enough PC. This is the > best of the SDR series for use below 200 kHz. > It can be used with SpectraVue or Winrad. > Works with I2PHD WINRAD, SM5BSZ LINRAD, HOKA and DRM software. See: > http://www.rfspace.com/SDR-IQ.html > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SDR-IQ/ > > Have Fun, > > Brooke Clarke > http://www.prc68.com > > Marc Balmer wrote: > > Hi > > > > I want to build a small, cheap, yet precise long-wave > receiver which > > can be tuned from the computer in the 2KHz - 200 KHz range (the > > intended use is to receive various time signal stations). > > > > Does a chip for such a receiver exist? Should I take the SDR route? > > I designed a DCF77 receivers some years ago, but I need > something more > > flexible (and a bit more modern...) > > > > - Marc Balmer