Cold molded versus steel
I agree that "veneered" would better describe the cold molded method. It seems
as if a lot of builders are using the term "cold molded" to describe any
fiberglass over wood construction. The real benifit of cold molding is that
the wood is encapsulated in epoxy, which "supposedly" prevents rot. And the
fact that wood is about the strongest material available at a decent price for
boat building. I am a proponent of cold molded boat building, but I have it on
good authority that some of the top builders use a LOT of plywood in there
hulls, at any large semi flat areas that it could be used in, veneered inside
and out. I'm told that this cuts down labor costs on an otherwise very labor
intensive endeavor. I've seen the results of encapsulated plywood, and for the
most part I'm not impressed, but maybe coldmolded over ply is better than
fiberglass over ply. They say if it doesn't get wet it's never a problem,
after all it's "encapsulated". Yeah right, this is a boat we're talking about
isn't it ? For my money, steel would be hard to beat, (disclaimer: I don't
have and have never owned a steel boat) mostly because I'm comfortable working
with that material and I have the most cofidence in it's strength.
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-----Original Message-----
From: bob england
I agree that "veneered" would better describe the cold molded
method. It seems as if a lot of builders are using the term "cold molded"
to describe any
fiberglass over wood construction.
REPLY
True cold molded construction uses wood strips that are much thicker than
veneers. Typically the stips are cut as thick as they can be while still
allowing flexibility to conform to the curves of the hull. 1/4 - 3/8"
thickness is more likely than a 0.030" veneer.
Using veneer would raise the ratio of resin to cellulose to an unacceptable
level ane effectively negate much of the benefits of using wood. Cold
molded construction uses the superior strenght and structural advantage of
the wood cell arrangement.
Arild
There's a builder in my old home town (Portland, OR) that has a great
reputation for building cold-molded boats--both power and sail. I've sailed
a couple of their boats, including one of his early projects, a 42'
sailboat, built in 1982. We sailed the boat to Hawaii in 1996 in the West
Marine Pacific Cup. The boat is now 25 years old and is extremely solid. It
has done at least five (I actually think more, but don't remember) races to
Hawaii and back and been sailed hard. I've done some maintenance work on the
boat and been impressed with how solid it is after 25 years of
well-above-average use.
Here's a link to their web site that has some discussion about the build
process they use:
http://www.schoonercreek.com/const_process/construction_process1.htm
Incidentally, this is also the company (and process) that built "Ocean
Planet", Bruce Schwab's round-the-world open-60' racing sailboat.
I would definitely consider cold molded construction as one option for a
custom boat.
Mark Tilden
Selene 50 "Koinonia"
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of bob
england
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 7:41 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: T&T: Cold molded versus steel
I agree that "veneered" would better describe the cold molded method. It
seems
as if a lot of builders are using the term "cold molded" to describe any
fiberglass over wood construction. The real benifit of cold molding is that
the wood is encapsulated in epoxy, which "supposedly" prevents rot. And the
fact that wood is about the strongest material available at a decent price
for
boat building. I am a proponent of cold molded boat building, but I have it
on
good authority that some of the top builders use a LOT of plywood in there
hulls, at any large semi flat areas that it could be used in, veneered
inside
and out. I'm told that this cuts down labor costs on an otherwise very labor
intensive endeavor. I've seen the results of encapsulated plywood, and for
the
most part I'm not impressed, but maybe coldmolded over ply is better than
fiberglass over ply. They say if it doesn't get wet it's never a problem,
after all it's "encapsulated". Yeah right, this is a boat we're talking
about
isn't it ? For my money, steel would be hard to beat, (disclaimer: I don't
have and have never owned a steel boat) mostly because I'm comfortable
working
with that material and I have the most cofidence in it's strength.
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Although I can appreciate that a new cold-molded hull would have the best of
fiberglass and wood, what about old boats? It is usually considered bad
technique to core fiberglass below the waterline. There is a 30 year old
Gilliken trawler listed for sale on the web with great looking pictures, but
doesn't water eventually penetrate into the wood? How can you repair soft
spots in this complex integration of wood and resin?
John
S/F Profishent
On 4/22/07, Mark Tilden mark@mdt-consulting.com wrote:
There's a builder in my old home town (Portland, OR) that has a great
reputation for building cold-molded boats--both power and sail. I've
sailed
a couple of their boats, including one of his early projects, a 42'
sailboat, built in 1982. We sailed the boat to Hawaii in 1996 in the West
Marine Pacific Cup. The boat is now 25 years old and is extremely solid.
It
has done at least five (I actually think more, but don't remember) races
to
Hawaii and back and been sailed hard. I've done some maintenance work on
the
boat and been impressed with how solid it is after 25 years of
well-above-average use.
Here's a link to their web site that has some discussion about the build
process they use:
http://www.schoonercreek.com/const_process/construction_process1.htm
Incidentally, this is also the company (and process) that built "Ocean
Planet", Bruce Schwab's round-the-world open-60' racing sailboat.
I would definitely consider cold molded construction as one option for a
custom boat.
Mark Tilden
Selene 50 "Koinonia"
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
bob
england
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 7:41 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: T&T: Cold molded versus steel
I agree that "veneered" would better describe the cold molded method. It
seems
as if a lot of builders are using the term "cold molded" to describe any
fiberglass over wood construction. The real benifit of cold molding is
that
the wood is encapsulated in epoxy, which "supposedly" prevents rot. And
the
fact that wood is about the strongest material available at a decent price
for
boat building. I am a proponent of cold molded boat building, but I have
it
on
good authority that some of the top builders use a LOT of plywood in there
hulls, at any large semi flat areas that it could be used in, veneered
inside
and out. I'm told that this cuts down labor costs on an otherwise very
labor
intensive endeavor. I've seen the results of encapsulated plywood, and for
the
most part I'm not impressed, but maybe coldmolded over ply is better than
fiberglass over ply. They say if it doesn't get wet it's never a problem,
after all it's "encapsulated". Yeah right, this is a boat we're talking
about
isn't it ? For my money, steel would be hard to beat, (disclaimer: I don't
have and have never owned a steel boat) mostly because I'm comfortable
working
with that material and I have the most cofidence in it's strength.
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I'm certainly no expert on cold molded construction. I'll just give you a
couple of observations from my experience:
-
If the core material is closed-cell foam and properly installed, and
the planks are properly sealed and bedded in epoxy, even if the hull is
damaged, water can't migrate along the core. While coring below the
waterline is not common in trawlers, it's quite common in performance
sailboats (i.e. all J-Boats are cored below the waterline). This is not
considered "bad technique" - it simply requires more care in construction
and maintenance. -
A few years back (2002), "Rage" a 70 racing sailboat built by the
same company was grounded hard on a rock near Victoria BC going at least 8
knots. There was substantial damage to the hull, though with some temporary
repairs, the boat was sailed back down the Washington coast to the Schooner
Creek yard in Portland. The crew there removed the keel and repaired the
hull by cutting out an area surrounding the keel and building it back up
using a similar technique (with some added carbon fiber for extra strength).
Again, I don't claim to be an expert in cold molded construction or repair,
but I watched through the entire process (as my J/130 was out of the water
in the Schooner Creek yard at the time) and I've been told by their crew
that repairing the cold-molded hull is no more difficult than repairing any
cored fiberglass hull. -
As I mentioned in the original post, "Magic Carpet" is 25 years old
and there is no evidence that I've seen that the hull has been compromised
by water. Remember that epoxy is much more impervious to water than
polyester resin.
If you have specific questions about this, you might want give Steve Rander
at Schooner Creek a call and talk to them about the technique.
Mark
From: John Walsh [mailto:john.j.walsh.jr@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 6:02 AM
To: mark@mdt-consulting.com
Cc: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: Cold molded versus steel
Although I can appreciate that a new cold-molded hull would have the best of
fiberglass and wood, what about old boats? It is usually considered bad
technique to core fiberglass below the waterline. There is a 30 year old
Gilliken trawler listed for sale on the web with great looking pictures, but
doesn't water eventually penetrate into the wood? How can you repair soft
spots in this complex integration of wood and resin?
John
S/F Profishent
On 4/22/07, Mark Tilden mark@mdt-consulting.com wrote:
There's a builder in my old home town (Portland, OR) that has a great
reputation for building cold-molded boats--both power and sail. I've sailed
a couple of their boats, including one of his early projects, a 42'
sailboat, built in 1982. We sailed the boat to Hawaii in 1996 in the West
Marine Pacific Cup. The boat is now 25 years old and is extremely solid. It
has done at least five (I actually think more, but don't remember) races to
Hawaii and back and been sailed hard. I've done some maintenance work on the
boat and been impressed with how solid it is after 25 years of
well-above-average use.
Here's a link to their web site that has some discussion about the build
process they use:
http://www.schoonercreek.com/const_process/construction_process1.htm
Incidentally, this is also the company (and process) that built "Ocean
Planet", Bruce Schwab's round-the-world open-60' racing sailboat.
I would definitely consider cold molded construction as one option for a
custom boat.
Mark Tilden
Selene 50 "Koinonia"
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of bob
england
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 7:41 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: T&T: Cold molded versus steel
I agree that "veneered" would better describe the cold molded method. It
seems
as if a lot of builders are using the term "cold molded" to describe any
fiberglass over wood construction. The real benifit of cold molding is that
the wood is encapsulated in epoxy, which "supposedly" prevents rot. And the
fact that wood is about the strongest material available at a decent price
for
boat building. I am a proponent of cold molded boat building, but I have it
on
good authority that some of the top builders use a LOT of plywood in there
hulls, at any large semi flat areas that it could be used in, veneered
inside
and out. I'm told that this cuts down labor costs on an otherwise very labor
intensive endeavor. I've seen the results of encapsulated plywood, and for
the
most part I'm not impressed, but maybe coldmolded over ply is better than
fiberglass over ply. They say if it doesn't get wet it's never a problem,
after all it's "encapsulated". Yeah right, this is a boat we're talking
about
isn't it ? For my money, steel would be hard to beat, (disclaimer: I don't
have and have never owned a steel boat) mostly because I'm comfortable
working
with that material and I have the most cofidence in it's strength.
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