Byron asked: What planning have you done regarding lighting strikes? I can not see how to avoid the paper chart backup if there is a chance that a strike will clean out the computers and the backup drives. I'll describe how Alanui's electronic chartplotting is achieved. First, I believe in having an active Primary and Secondary chartplotter up and running at all times when underway. In my case I refer to the Furuno Navnet2 system (and attached accessories) as the Primary. A 12v automotive computer (and attached accessories) is the secondary system. I subscribed to the belief that two systems should be up and running at the same time in order to eliminate a situation I experienced with my Nobeltec laptop on a voyage with Mike Maurice. At exactly the wrong time my laptop with Nobeltec locked up. If it had been my only source of navigation I would have run the boat up on Umatella Reef off the WA coast. Now I wasn't in command, Mike was, and he used his local knowledge and visual bearings to determine when and where the boat should turn. I was staring down at the screen wondering why the boat had stopped moving? I suspect this is why Mike doesn't rely on the equipment installed on many of the boats he delivers, he even brings his own radar aboard if the boat's equipment is questionable! Back to the point. Having two systems, each with completely different software and architectures, both telling you your in the same place delivers me a lot of confidence. It's not enough to just have two different systems, you need to insure you've made good decisions regarding their configurations, for example: 1. Each system has its own accessories, such as independent GPS and Heading Sensors 2. Each system is powered by its own separate breakers and power sources 3. Neither system requires 120v power, they are 12v systems (part of why the PC is an automotive PC) 4. The PC system is never connected to the internet, unless I'm performing a specific software update, and then only briefly and only behind a firewall 5. The PC system runs Windows XP with NO antivirus or protection software and no other applications 6. The accessories for the two systems are identical so they can be used to spare and troubleshoot each independent system. This means you don't go out and buy te $59 bluetooth GPS, you buy the $200 Furuno GPS that's identical to the Navnet system. Yes I realize this exposes both systems to a common flaw, but the GPS and heading sensor are technologies where the risk is acceptable. 7. The components used on the PC system are hardened. They are designed to run in the trunk of a car at 140 degrees F. The hard drive is small and expensive, but again vibration and shock resistant to 30G's. This is way overkill on a boat. Worth noting is the evolution of solid state hard drives. At the time I was ordering my system another skipper in WA was building his system and specified such a drive. I couldn't satisfy my concerns regarding the limitations in how many times a bit could be set (10,000 w cycles) so I opted for the hardened traditional disk. The automotive PC was able to accept multiple serial ports so there are no USB to serial converters, and no 3rd party drivers. This means they are portable between the systems. 8. The digital cartography for each system completely separate, the PC cartography is installed from CD and then stored in a folder where they can be rapidly recovered. 9. If we anchor and lightning is present I unplug all the physical connections to the PC. Since it's accessible in the pilothouse this only takes a few seconds. Each cable is labeled and with the exception of Serial 1 and Serial 2 you can't plug it back together incorrectly. This is part of the discipline in designing the system. I can't tell you how many boats I been on where the PC is buried behind a cabinet making it unreachable, not to mention unserviceable. Ok, so your now saying, great Scott, but if you get hit by lightning your still going to lose both those systems. Agreed. So in addition to these two systems we have two laptops on the boat. One (the one I'm using now) is my personal laptop that is used for communications and as the planning computer. I do all the course prep and planning on this system running the same software as the Secondary PC on the boat. A second laptop also contains a complete back up of the PC software (Coastal Explorer) and cartography. Now there is a limitation to the cartography on the backup computers. Since Maptech only allows you to use one copy of the charts, the two laptops don't have the purchased maptech cartography. What they do have is the ENC's and NOAA rasters that are free and older versions of BSB3 charts that I bought from a guy on the internet. They aren't perfect, but they are good enough to get me into a harbor or steer to shore. The GPS for these two laptops is a Garmin 12 that is stored away from the pilothouse (although not in a faraday cage) but is known to work. I have dozens of AA batteries to keep it working (experience tells me I get about 2 days for a fresh set of batteries). I make sure I plug this thing in every few months to make sure its working. Finally I have a hard drive that was imaged when the software was installed. This hard drive is packed away with some spares and YES I know it worked when it was packed away, because it was actually the system disk for one of the laptops. The disk was used to build a system from the ground up and then removed and stored away. Oh, there are a few things we did to insure the laptops can function effectively as backups: 1. I turn them off and move them to the forward stateroom if lightning is present ( note I do use this laptop with the Verizon cell card to access NEXRAD radar from internet sites) When the lightning arrives they it is turned off and put away 2. This laptop will run for 4 hours on its own battery. After that I use a 400W inverter that plugs into a 12v source at the helm. I've tested this for 12 hours and know it works. If I loose 12v to the pilothouse because of the strike I will only have 4 hours of navigation, which I could hopefully extend by starting up and shutting down over a 12 hour period 3. The 2nd laptop battery is pretty old and will only give us 2 hours of use, perhaps it's time to replace it? So in summary no system is perfect, but when I weigh these things against what you really have to do to keep paper charts available, accessible and accurate, I feel the electronic solution outweighs the paper version. Think about it, I have many, many more charts than I could ever hope to have if they were paper. I have money left over that I didn't invest in charts to make sure the existing systems are built of high quality components. I bought hundreds of charts for the trip to the canal and only looked at them once and only because we were having lunch and talking about nice anchorages along the coast of Mexico. So here's the net net of my perspective. All you guys that say you have to have paper as a backup, will great, you go ahead. For me (a guy who's been in the computer industry all his adult life) I feel I can mitigate the issues of reliability to the point the all electronic system yields a superior solution. It's not for everyone, but when I look to purchase my next boat I won't be looking for 7 drawers where I can store thousands of full size paper charts. Oh, you don't have thousands of full size charts? I do. Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA

Well said, Scott. I have very similar redundancy approaches on my boat. The only charts I carry are the large-scale planning maps, mainly so I can sit at the dinette and discuss routes with my wife and guests and do some preliminary planning. Then I'm off to the computer to lay it in. John Marshall Serendipity - Nordhavn 55 Sequim Bay, WA On Oct 28, 2008, at 5:48 AM, Scott E. Bulger wrote: > Byron asked: What planning have you done regarding lighting > strikes? I can > not see how to avoid the paper chart backup if there is a chance > that a > strike will clean out the computers and the backup drives. > > > > > > I'll describe how Alanui's electronic chartplotting is achieved. > > > > First, I believe in having an active Primary and Secondary > chartplotter up > and running at all times when underway. In my case I refer to the > Furuno > Navnet2 system (and attached accessories) as the Primary. A 12v > automotive > computer (and attached accessories) is the secondary system. I > subscribed > to the belief that two systems should be up and running at the same > time in > order to eliminate a situation I experienced with my Nobeltec laptop > on a > voyage with Mike Maurice. At exactly the wrong time my laptop with > Nobeltec > locked up. If it had been my only source of navigation I would have > run the > boat up on Umatella Reef off the WA coast. Now I wasn't in command, > Mike > was, and he used his local knowledge and visual bearings to > determine when > and where the boat should turn. I was staring down at the screen > wondering > why the boat had stopped moving? I suspect this is why Mike doesn't > rely on > the equipment installed on many of the boats he delivers, he even > brings his > own radar aboard if the boat's equipment is questionable! Back to the > point. Having two systems, each with completely different software > and > architectures, both telling you your in the same place delivers me a > lot of > confidence. > > > > It's not enough to just have two different systems, you need to insure > you've made good decisions regarding their configurations, for > example: > > 1. Each system has its own accessories, such as independent > GPS and > Heading Sensors > > 2. Each system is powered by its own separate breakers and power > sources > > 3. Neither system requires 120v power, they are 12v systems > (part of > why the PC is an automotive PC) > > 4. The PC system is never connected to the internet, unless I'm > performing a specific software update, and then only briefly and > only behind > a firewall > > 5. The PC system runs Windows XP with NO antivirus or protection > software and no other applications > > 6. The accessories for the two systems are identical so they > can be > used to spare and troubleshoot each independent system. This means > you > don't go out and buy te $59 bluetooth GPS, you buy the $200 Furuno GPS > that's identical to the Navnet system. Yes I realize this exposes > both > systems to a common flaw, but the GPS and heading sensor are > technologies > where the risk is acceptable. > > 7. The components used on the PC system are hardened. They are > designed to run in the trunk of a car at 140 degrees F. The hard > drive is > small and expensive, but again vibration and shock resistant to > 30G's. This > is way overkill on a boat. Worth noting is the evolution of solid > state > hard drives. At the time I was ordering my system another skipper > in WA was > building his system and specified such a drive. I couldn't satisfy my > concerns regarding the limitations in how many times a bit could be > set > (10,000 w cycles) so I opted for the hardened traditional disk. The > automotive PC was able to accept multiple serial ports so there are > no USB > to serial converters, and no 3rd party drivers. This means they are > portable between the systems. > > 8. The digital cartography for each system completely > separate, the PC > cartography is installed from CD and then stored in a folder where > they can > be rapidly recovered. > > 9. If we anchor and lightning is present I unplug all the > physical > connections to the PC. Since it's accessible in the pilothouse this > only > takes a few seconds. Each cable is labeled and with the exception > of Serial > 1 and Serial 2 you can't plug it back together incorrectly. This is > part of > the discipline in designing the system. I can't tell you how many > boats I > been on where the PC is buried behind a cabinet making it > unreachable, not > to mention unserviceable. > > > > Ok, so your now saying, great Scott, but if you get hit by lightning > your > still going to lose both those systems. Agreed. So in addition to > these > two systems we have two laptops on the boat. One (the one I'm using > now) is > my personal laptop that is used for communications and as the planning > computer. I do all the course prep and planning on this system > running the > same software as the Secondary PC on the boat. A second laptop also > contains a complete back up of the PC software (Coastal Explorer) and > cartography. Now there is a limitation to the cartography on the > backup > computers. Since Maptech only allows you to use one copy of the > charts, the > two laptops don't have the purchased maptech cartography. What they > do have > is the ENC's and NOAA rasters that are free and older versions of BSB3 > charts that I bought from a guy on the internet. They aren't > perfect, but > they are good enough to get me into a harbor or steer to shore. The > GPS for > these two laptops is a Garmin 12 that is stored away from the > pilothouse > (although not in a faraday cage) but is known to work. I have dozens > of AA > batteries to keep it working (experience tells me I get about 2 days > for a > fresh set of batteries). I make sure I plug this thing in every few > months > to make sure its working. Finally I have a hard drive that was > imaged when > the software was installed. This hard drive is packed away with > some spares > and YES I know it worked when it was packed away, because it was > actually > the system disk for one of the laptops. The disk was used to build > a system > from the ground up and then removed and stored away. Oh, there are > a few > things we did to insure the laptops can function effectively as > backups: > > 1. I turn them off and move them to the forward stateroom if > lightning is present ( note I do use this laptop with the Verizon > cell card > to access NEXRAD radar from internet sites) When the lightning > arrives they > it is turned off and put away > > 2. This laptop will run for 4 hours on its own battery. After > that I > use a 400W inverter that plugs into a 12v source at the helm. I've > tested > this for 12 hours and know it works. If I loose 12v to the pilothouse > because of the strike I will only have 4 hours of navigation, which > I could > hopefully extend by starting up and shutting down over a 12 hour > period > > 3. The 2nd laptop battery is pretty old and will only give us > 2 hours > of use, perhaps it's time to replace it? > > > > So in summary no system is perfect, but when I weigh these things > against > what you really have to do to keep paper charts available, > accessible and > accurate, I feel the electronic solution outweighs the paper > version. Think > about it, I have many, many more charts than I could ever hope to > have if > they were paper. I have money left over that I didn't invest in > charts to > make sure the existing systems are built of high quality > components. I > bought hundreds of charts for the trip to the canal and only looked > at them > once and only because we were having lunch and talking about nice > anchorages > along the coast of Mexico. > > > > So here's the net net of my perspective. All you guys that say you > have to > have paper as a backup, will great, you go ahead. For me (a guy > who's been > in the computer industry all his adult life) I feel I can mitigate the > issues of reliability to the point the all electronic system yields a > superior solution. It's not for everyone, but when I look to > purchase my > next boat I won't be looking for 7 drawers where I can store > thousands of > full size paper charts. Oh, you don't have thousands of full size > charts? > I do. > > > > Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World > Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.