TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V5 #115
My '00 Mainship 390 trawler has a real noisy water pump. Upon asking around
it seems the answer to this problem is the need for an "accumulator" tank
for the water system.
Being a newbie to trawlers and never having a problem like this in other
boats, how do I make this installation?
Is there a company that sells systems or the parts necessary to do this?
Thanks to all,
Craig Lewis
Athena
'00 Mainship 390
Contrary to earlier posts in this thread......
- It is not necessarily a bad thing to have a noisy water pump. Especially
if you are new to boating or if you have newbies on board, you need to be
aware of the possibility that a faucet has been unintentionally left on or
that accidentally a pressure fitting in the system is leaking. OTOH, the
noisy pump may be telling you that it is about to die. - If you do want a quieter pump, then service the one you have or get a
quieter pump. If you have a reciprocating pump now, then you would find that
a diaphragm pump will be quieter. An impeller pump may also be used but IMHO
is inferior to a diaphragm pump for this application on smaller boats.
Mounting the pump on 2" sections of hose cut on a diagonal, the pump
attached to the hose at one end of the diagonal and the other end of the
diagonal fixed to the mounting board will isolate sound from being
mechanically transmitted from the pump to the boat. - An accumulator will not affect the noise of the pump, but will affect the
frequency that the pump turns on and off. The bigger the tank, the longer
the frequency between motor start-ups but the longer the run time. This is
good for pump longevity but tends to obscure the presence of nuisance leaks.
For a given amount of water used, the pump runs the same time whether you
have an accumulator or not. - A non-return valve is NOT used with an accumulator as it negates the
whole point of an accumulator. - If you have a hot water tank and do not have an accumulator, the
expansion of hot water from cold during a period in which no other water
outlet is used will create a local pressure that often results in joint
leaks if your piping is metal. An accumulator will solve this problem.
Systems piped with enough rubber hose simply 'pump up the hose'. Not a good
practice. - Some books (The Marine Electrical ~ Bible - Payne) show a non-return
valve in the inlet to the hot water tank. I think this is wrong because the
only pressure relief would be through the connections, a burst pipe, or the
relief valve on the hot water tank....non of which are desireable. - Many accumulators for small boat systems are not pressurized.
- To install an accumulator, simply cut a tee into the line after the pump
and run the teed line to the accumulator mounted near and above the pump.
Since you are there and you have some extra pipe in your hand and a spare
tee, and the pipe is transparent plastic, install a water tank level sight
gauge by teeing into the water line in front of the pump and fixing a loop
on the wall above and around the accumulator reaching a level above the
maximum tank height. Open end is fine, except stuff might fall into the
pipe; so cover the end.
Richard
At 07:57 PM 10/24/2001 -0700, Richard wrote:
Contrary to earlier posts in this thread......
- It is not necessarily a bad thing to have a noisy water pump. Especially
if you are new to boating or if you have newbies on board, you need to be
aware of the possibility that a faucet has been unintentionally left on or
that accidentally a pressure fitting in the system is leaking. OTOH, the
noisy pump may be telling you that it is about to die.
I've learned to do a couple of things that help check the fresh water
system on the boat. If I leave the boat for a few days, I leave the water
system preasureized, (with the power to the 12Vdc pump off). when I come
back on board if there is still water preasure (the galley sink) I know
there are not leaks in the system. The other is, anytime I turn ON the
pump, I watch the current meter on the panel, if it doesn't go back down in
30 sec. I know there is a problem. FWIW, I also like a "noisy" pump.
Old Chinese saying: When boat talks to you, you be smart to listen ..jd
Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray
36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star"
Pompano Beach, Fl.
At 07:57 PM 10/24/2001 -0700, Richard wrote:
mechanically transmitted from the pump to the boat.
3. An accumulator will not affect the noise of the pump, but will affect the
frequency that the pump turns on and off.
I disagree here, I just completely replace the system (pump anf filter) on
the boat and was not satified with the amount of noise and vibration so I
added a tank right after the pump. Made a big difference in amount of
sound and vibration.
- A non-return valve is NOT used with an accumulator as it negates the
whole point of an accumulator.
I vote Ay on this one..
- If you have a hot water tank and do not have an accumulator, the
expansion of hot water from cold during a period in which no other water
outlet is used will create a local pressure that often results in joint
leaks if your piping is metal.
I vote Nay on this one...
Systems piped with enough rubber hose simply 'pump up the hose'. Not a good
practice.
Where I come from, rubber tastes terrrrible.. rubber in drinking water a
no no..
- Some books (The Marine Electrical ~ Bible - Payne) show a non-return
valve in the inlet to the hot water tank. I think this is wrong because the
only pressure relief would be through the connections, a burst pipe, or the
relief valve on the hot water tank....non of which are desireable.
I thought the oneway in my system was silly too until I had to take all the
pipes apart (to do the rebuild) and found that no water came out on the
tank input. saved a lot of time..
- Many accumulators for small boat systems are not pressurized.
All the ones I have seen or used have about 20lbs psi (try it, take all
the air out of yours, I bet the pump comes on as soon as the water is
turned on.) ...
- To install an accumulator, simply cut a tee into the line after the pump
and run the teed line to the accumulator mounted near and above the pump.
Since you are there and you have some extra pipe in your hand and a spare
tee, and the pipe is transparent plastic, install a water tank level sight
gauge by teeing into the water line in front of the pump and fixing a loop
on the wall above and around the accumulator reaching a level above the
maximum tank height. Open end is fine, except stuff might fall into the
pipe; so cover the end.
Good suggestion except besure to have a means of shuting off the line or
cap it because ( don't anyone ask me how I found this out) if the end of
this hose is below the tank bottom (cutting the hose short will allow it to
drip on the wall of the engine room, right?) and it is open, the next time
you fill the tanks you will start a siphon effect on the hose (which you
will not notice while filling) and the next day your tanks will be empty...jd
Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray
36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star"
Pompano Beach, Fl.
The way in which I solved the problem of the pump running (without stopping) for
ANY reason, and my not being apprised of it ,was to add an indicator light on
the electric panel
This is a very simple and cheap fix. If the light is on for more than a few
seconds you ck on WHY.
Installation : run a small wire fr the pump + lead , that is at the pump, back
up to the panel and to an indicator lamp; the (-) wire fr the lamp goes to the
(-) bar.
This lamp is activated only when the pump is on. Bingo!!!
Did the same with the pump in my gray water tank and several others.
CCC
Joe DellaFera wrote:
At 07:57 PM 10/24/2001 -0700, Richard wrote:
Contrary to earlier posts in this thread......
- It is not necessarily a bad thing to have a noisy water pump. Especially
if you are new to boating or if you have newbies on board, you need to be
aware of the possibility that a faucet has been unintentionally left on or
that accidentally a pressure fitting in the system is leaking. --
Charles and Pat Culotta
Patterson, La.
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/charlesculotta/