GSoC Project Proposal: Morphic for Amber, Looking for mentor
Hi Smalltalkers,
I'm a computer science student studying in Potsdam, Germany, in the 6th
semester (take a look at my profile on the ESUG GSoC website,
http://gsoc2013.esug.org/matthias-springer/biography) and want to
propose a GSoC project. I'm looking for a mentor. I know that it's
already late but I started working on this project just some weeks ago.
Regardless of whether you would be willing to participate as a mentor,
I'd like to know if this project is something you're interested in and
what features are most important for you. I'd like to hear about your
ideas.
Amber is a Smalltalk implementation running in a web browser. It is
written in JavaScript. Amber provides some basic Smalltalk classes and
methods. It is also possible to render HTML code in a Seaside-like way.
But in contrast to Seaside, Amber has the advantage that the whole
Smalltalk VM runs inside the browser. Code written in Amber can be
automatically filed out to the hard disk (using a NodeJS server running
in the background).
My proposal is to reimplement parts of the Morphic framework in Amber.
This would have several advantages.
- Existing Squeak/Pharo/... applications that use the Morphic framework
can be ported to Amber easily. - GUI applications can be developed more easily. For complex GUI
applications running in a browser, people usually use JavaScript
libraries like ExtJS. But I think, when someone decides to use Amber, we
can assume that the this person is also fairly familiar with the Morphic
framework. This makes Amber even more interesting. Furthermore, more
people might decide to use Smalltalk. - GUI applications can be written entirely in Smalltalk, without
JavaScript. - We can easily provide advanced programming tools like multiple class
browser windows and OmniBrowser.
My vision is to provide a fully-featured Smalltalk programming
environment running in the browser that provides all features that are
offered by Squeak/Pharo (class browsers, Monticello, ...). I think not
all of this can be done in the scope of a GSoC project but providing a
Morphic implementation would be the first step. Having multiple class
browsers and all the other components (inspect, debugger; this already
exists in Amber) in a seperate window (instead of tabs) would already be
great!
I'm currently working on porting a very small part of the Morphic
framework to Amber, in order to get Dale Henrichs' tODE
(https://github.com/dalehenrich/tode) working in Amber. I already
implemented some basic Morph classes like "Morph", "SystemWindow",
"TextMorph" and "SimpleButtonMorph", but only very basic methods that
are needed by tODE (see
https://github.com/matthias-springer/tode-web-amber).
Here's some technical stuff about how my current implementation works.
- All morphs need to be rendered as HTML DOM elements.
- Morphs are rendered using "HTMLCanvas" and "Widget", both classes are
provided by Amber. - Morphs are rendered inside a div container, submorphs can be added by
adding the submorph's div container to the owner's div container and
setting its position and so on. - Not all HTML tags can be reused. For instance, the HTML text box/text
area does not support text with different text formats (color, emphasis,
...). I had to reimplement text areas for editable "TextMoprh"s with DOM
manipulation. - I use JQuery and JQuery UI intensively for DOM manipulations and
events. JQuery is already integrated in Amber and can be used from
Smalltalk code (but I had to implement some additional helper functions).
A proposal on how to get started and structure the project.
- 1st week: think about architecture (how to do the rendering, ...),
class structures (e.g. which Morph classes are needed) and choose some
existing Squeak/Pharo applications that use an important/representative
subset of Morphic. - Next weeks: implement Morphic classes in order to get the Squeak/Pharo
applications running (start with an easy one). - Half-time: basic Morphic functionality should be working. Begin
implementing more advanced Morphic classes for getting a class browser
running. We have to think about whether to port an existing class
browser or to reuse parts of the current Amber class browser (atm, I
don't know if it's even implemented in Smalltalk). When we decide to
port an existing class browser, we have to take into account that Amber
has a different way of manipulating and compiling classes (to JavaScript).
Similar previous work: The Lively Kernel (http://www.lively-kernel.org/)
is an implementation of the Morphic framework in JavaScript (no
Smalltalk). I want to do this in Amber.
I'm looking for a mentor for the GSoC 2013. Ideally, the mentor has a
good understanding of the Morphic framework and maybe even HTML,
JavaScript and CSS (but I'm already quite familiar with this).
Best regards,
Matthias Springer
--
Matthias Springer * me@matthiasspringer.de * +49-1577-3814255
Student B.Sc. IT-Systems Engineering (Hasso-Plattner-Institut)
Stahnsdorfer Straße 144c, 14482 Potsdam
Hi Matthias,
Very good proposal indeed, specially combined with all proposed project
over Spec - a declarative specification and builder for UI, both desktop
and web. Also in Aida/Web we are looking for further enhancements on
that field and if Morphic way of UI building happens to be the superior
way, we will also adapt it.
I therefore propose that you prepare a project proposal ASAP, following
the template other projects are. Send it to me and I'll add it to our
GSoC site. Other half of your proposal then put into a proposal page
after you express an interest on your own project, being invited, etc.
About mentorship, I can be a second mentor, dealing with all web stuff,
while I don't know much about Morphic. But it seems you are quite
knowledgeable of it already? Nico will certainly help too with Amber stuff.
One recommendation: try to stay independent of any outside JS library as
much as possible. For instance, you don't need jQuery nowadays for DOM
and event management because recent browsers have quite decent support
for that. Even that resulting code can be without jQuery a bit uglier,
you are not dependent of jQuery fate. I know that from my own experience
being trapped once into dependence to a Prototype, predecessor of
jQuery, which is nowadays practically defunct...
Best regards
Janko
Dne 26. 04. 2013 22:25, piše Matthias Springer:
Hi Smalltalkers,
I'm a computer science student studying in Potsdam, Germany, in the 6th
semester (take a look at my profile on the ESUG GSoC website,
http://gsoc2013.esug.org/matthias-springer/biography) and want to
propose a GSoC project. I'm looking for a mentor. I know that it's
already late but I started working on this project just some weeks ago.
Regardless of whether you would be willing to participate as a mentor,
I'd like to know if this project is something you're interested in and
what features are most important for you. I'd like to hear about your
ideas.
Amber is a Smalltalk implementation running in a web browser. It is
written in JavaScript. Amber provides some basic Smalltalk classes and
methods. It is also possible to render HTML code in a Seaside-like way.
But in contrast to Seaside, Amber has the advantage that the whole
Smalltalk VM runs inside the browser. Code written in Amber can be
automatically filed out to the hard disk (using a NodeJS server running
in the background).
My proposal is to reimplement parts of the Morphic framework in Amber.
This would have several advantages.
- Existing Squeak/Pharo/... applications that use the Morphic framework
can be ported to Amber easily. - GUI applications can be developed more easily. For complex GUI
applications running in a browser, people usually use JavaScript
libraries like ExtJS. But I think, when someone decides to use Amber, we
can assume that the this person is also fairly familiar with the Morphic
framework. This makes Amber even more interesting. Furthermore, more
people might decide to use Smalltalk. - GUI applications can be written entirely in Smalltalk, without
JavaScript. - We can easily provide advanced programming tools like multiple class
browser windows and OmniBrowser.
My vision is to provide a fully-featured Smalltalk programming
environment running in the browser that provides all features that are
offered by Squeak/Pharo (class browsers, Monticello, ...). I think not
all of this can be done in the scope of a GSoC project but providing a
Morphic implementation would be the first step. Having multiple class
browsers and all the other components (inspect, debugger; this already
exists in Amber) in a seperate window (instead of tabs) would already be
great!
I'm currently working on porting a very small part of the Morphic
framework to Amber, in order to get Dale Henrichs' tODE
(https://github.com/dalehenrich/tode) working in Amber. I already
implemented some basic Morph classes like "Morph", "SystemWindow",
"TextMorph" and "SimpleButtonMorph", but only very basic methods that
are needed by tODE (see
https://github.com/matthias-springer/tode-web-amber).
Here's some technical stuff about how my current implementation works.
- All morphs need to be rendered as HTML DOM elements.
- Morphs are rendered using "HTMLCanvas" and "Widget", both classes are
provided by Amber. - Morphs are rendered inside a div container, submorphs can be added by
adding the submorph's div container to the owner's div container and
setting its position and so on. - Not all HTML tags can be reused. For instance, the HTML text box/text
area does not support text with different text formats (color, emphasis,
...). I had to reimplement text areas for editable "TextMoprh"s with DOM
manipulation. - I use JQuery and JQuery UI intensively for DOM manipulations and
events. JQuery is already integrated in Amber and can be used from
Smalltalk code (but I had to implement some additional helper functions).
A proposal on how to get started and structure the project.
- 1st week: think about architecture (how to do the rendering, ...),
class structures (e.g. which Morph classes are needed) and choose some
existing Squeak/Pharo applications that use an important/representative
subset of Morphic. - Next weeks: implement Morphic classes in order to get the Squeak/Pharo
applications running (start with an easy one). - Half-time: basic Morphic functionality should be working. Begin
implementing more advanced Morphic classes for getting a class browser
running. We have to think about whether to port an existing class
browser or to reuse parts of the current Amber class browser (atm, I
don't know if it's even implemented in Smalltalk). When we decide to
port an existing class browser, we have to take into account that Amber
has a different way of manipulating and compiling classes (to JavaScript).
Similar previous work: The Lively Kernel (http://www.lively-kernel.org/)
is an implementation of the Morphic framework in JavaScript (no
Smalltalk). I want to do this in Amber.
I'm looking for a mentor for the GSoC 2013. Ideally, the mentor has a
good understanding of the Morphic framework and maybe even HTML,
JavaScript and CSS (but I'm already quite familiar with this).
Best regards,
Matthias Springer
--
Janko Mivšek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
Matthias Springer wrote
Regardless of whether you would be willing to participate as a mentor,
I'd like to know if this project is something you're interested in and
what features are most important for you.
This is a /fantastic/ proposal. I am extremely interested in having the
ability to write a non-standard Morphic UI and have it show up in a webpage
without any extra work. In fact, that would be amazing! I'm also interested
in your idea for another important reason... Morphic is a mess!! What would
be great is if you focus on the required behavior without copying too much
of the implementation details. In this way, hopefully, we could backport
your clean implementation into Morphic and benefit from fresh eyes. I would
be happy to mentor as I'm more familiar with Morphic than I ever wanted to
be ;) But what would be /great/ is if you could hook up with Juan Vuletich
and pitch it to him. He did a rewrite of Morphic a while back and would be
an invaluable resource. Even if he can consult, it would be a huge help.
Cheers,
Sean
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GSoC-Project-Proposal-Morphic-for-Amber-Looking-for-mentor-tp4683856p4683986.html
Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Sean,
I'm happy to hear that!
I also took a look at Juan Vuletich's Morphic3 Project
(http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html). I think he did
not (re)implement Morphic yet but implemented algorithms for
high-quality rendering (e.g. anti-aliasing) so far. But I'll ask him if
he's interested in this project.
Best regards,
Matthias
Am 27.04.2013 16:47, schrieb Sean P. DeNigris:
Matthias Springer wrote
Regardless of whether you would be willing to participate as a mentor,
I'd like to know if this project is something you're interested in and
what features are most important for you.
This is a /fantastic/ proposal. I am extremely interested in having the
ability to write a non-standard Morphic UI and have it show up in a webpage
without any extra work. In fact, that would be amazing! I'm also interested
in your idea for another important reason... Morphic is a mess!! What would
be great is if you focus on the required behavior without copying too much
of the implementation details. In this way, hopefully, we could backport
your clean implementation into Morphic and benefit from fresh eyes. I would
be happy to mentor as I'm more familiar with Morphic than I ever wanted to
be ;) But what would be /great/ is if you could hook up with Juan Vuletich
and pitch it to him. He did a rewrite of Morphic a while back and would be
an invaluable resource. Even if he can consult, it would be a huge help.
Cheers,
Sean
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GSoC-Project-Proposal-Morphic-for-Amber-Looking-for-mentor-tp4683856p4683986.html
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Esug-list@lists.esug.org
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--
Matthias Springer * me@matthiasspringer.de * +49-1577-3814255
Student B.Sc. IT-Systems Engineering (Hasso-Plattner-Institut)
Stahnsdorfer Straße 144c, 14482 Potsdam
On 2013-04-27, at 16:47, "Sean P. DeNigris" sean@clipperadams.com wrote:
Matthias Springer wrote
Regardless of whether you would be willing to participate as a mentor,
I'd like to know if this project is something you're interested in and
what features are most important for you.
Great proposal indeed!
I see you mention Lively Kernel as "related". There is also Jens Mönig's Morphic implementation:
http://www.chirp.scratchr.org/blog/?p=34
which is used in Snap (a Scratch variant):
http://snap.berkeley.edu/snapsource/snap.html
And big kudos to Sean for volunteering to mentor!
- Bert -
This is a /fantastic/ proposal. I am extremely interested in having the
ability to write a non-standard Morphic UI and have it show up in a webpage
without any extra work. In fact, that would be amazing! I'm also interested
in your idea for another important reason... Morphic is a mess!! What would
be great is if you focus on the required behavior without copying too much
of the implementation details. In this way, hopefully, we could backport
your clean implementation into Morphic and benefit from fresh eyes. I would
be happy to mentor as I'm more familiar with Morphic than I ever wanted to
be ;) But what would be /great/ is if you could hook up with Juan Vuletich
and pitch it to him. He did a rewrite of Morphic a while back and would be
an invaluable resource. Even if he can consult, it would be a huge help.
Cheers,
Sean
Hi Matthias,
My name is Juan Vuletich, and I lead the development of Cuis Smalltalk
and Morphic 3. I am happy to see any and all initiatives and efforts
to advance the Smalltalk world.
Let's see how your project matches with what I'm doing. I'll sketch
briefly my projects and their state.
Cuis is a fork of Squeak (like Pharo, Etoys, Scratch, Tweak,
OpenCobalt, OpenQwaq, and others). The main objective that sets Cuis
apart from other Squeak variants, is to enable and ease evolution as
the top priority. For this, the strategy is to simplify the code as
much as possible, so it becomes easier to understand. Right now, in
lines of code, Cuis is about 1/3 the size of Squeak or Pharo. Cuis MIT
license, and freely available. It is a pretty mature and solid
Smalltalk environment, used for several commercial and non-commercial
projects. I started Cuis to make Morphic 3 possible:
Morphic 3 is a reimplementation of Squeak Morphic with these
fundamental changes:
- Drawing is vector graphics (like HTML5 Canvas and SVG)
- Each morph defines a local coordinate system
- Coordinates are float, and not tied to Display coordinates
- Code is simplified and easier to understand
The new drawing engine will be published this year (MIT license). The
rest of the work is in the Morphs themselves, and is done
incrementally in the Cuis project. This means that the latest Cuis
default and only GUI is always the most current state of this work.
Right now, in Cuis, all morphs are specified in local float
coordinates, and the Morphic code is much smaller and easier to
understand that in other Squeak variants.
I've been thinking for some time on doing something to enable Cuis
powered web servers running Morphic applications that are rendered in
the client web browser. This has indeed some overlap with what you
want to do. I would be delighted if you could work on this. But this
is not exactly what you are proposing, so I'll comment inline below
(please continue reading):
Quoting Matthias Springer me@matthiasspringer.de:
Hi Smalltalkers,
...
Amber is a Smalltalk implementation running in a web browser. It is
written in JavaScript. Amber provides some basic Smalltalk classes
and methods. It is also possible to render HTML code in a
Seaside-like way. But in contrast to Seaside, Amber has the
advantage that the whole Smalltalk VM runs inside the browser. Code
written in Amber can be automatically filed out to the hard disk
(using a NodeJS server running in the background).
Good. Amber looks like the perfect environment to do web-based
Smalltalk stuff.
My proposal is to reimplement parts of the Morphic framework in
Amber. This would have several advantages.
...(abridged)...
My vision is to provide a fully-featured Smalltalk programming
environment running in the browser that provides all features that
are offered by Squeak/Pharo (class browsers, Monticello, ...).
...(abridged)...
Here's some technical stuff about how my current implementation works.
- All morphs need to be rendered as HTML DOM elements.
- Morphs are rendered using "HTMLCanvas" and "Widget", both classes
are provided by Amber. - Morphs are rendered inside a div container, submorphs can be added
by adding the submorph's div container to the owner's div container
and setting its position and so on. - Not all HTML tags can be reused. For instance, the HTML text
box/text area does not support text with different text formats
(color, emphasis, ...). I had to reimplement text areas for editable
"TextMoprh"s with DOM manipulation.
If I understand this correctly, this means not using Canvas for
drawing graphics (like LivelyKernel and morphic.js do), but using the
html rendering in the browser (more like Seaside, Iliad and and Aida).
This approach has pros and cons, but to me, it essencially means it is
not a real Morphic. A fundamental feature of Morphic is that the look
and behavior of morphs is completely done in Smalltalk, and therefore,
only limited by what the Display can show. This means not using any
external widgets library (like html widgets, or qt, or native OS
widgets, etc). In Morphic, it is possible to do stuff like the
EnvelopeEditorMorph, and what you see in LivelyKernel and morphic.js.
In html, we are limited to what the browsers provide.
...(abridged)...
A proposal on how to get started and structure the project.
- 1st week: think about architecture (how to do the rendering, ...),
class structures (e.g. which Morph classes are needed) and choose
some existing Squeak/Pharo applications that use an
important/representative subset of Morphic.
This means that you want the real Morphic power and flexibility. Then
the strategy would be to start by making a Morphic World that can host
the most basic morphs, maybe not unlike what morphic.js is doing, but
in Smalltalk (Amber). If you follow this path, the next question is
whether to use global coordinates (like Squeak, Pharo and other
derivatives, except Cuis, and like morphic.js) or local coordinates
(like LivelyKernel, Self and Cuis).
Take a look at
http://forum.world.st/How-to-code-to-move-a-morph-td3937438.html where
some experiments with Amber and morphic.js are discussed.
If you follow the gobal coordinates path, compatibility with Squeak
and Pharo will be easier. If you follow the local coordinates path,
compatibility with Cuis and Morphic 3 will be easier.
If you consider doing a remote, web based canvas for Cuis / Morphic 3
servers, I would be delighted to be your mentor, as your work would be
closely related to mine. Besides, I believe this would be the easiest
way to enable fully Morphic webapps in Smalltalk.
If you do a SVG Morphic for Amber, similar to morphic.js, I could also
help. This would mean that a longer term project would be needed to
bring it to the point of real compatibility with Squeak / Pharo / Cuis.
If you do an html based implementation, compatibility with Squeak /
Pharo would be limited. In this case I could help a bit, but as this
would go closer to Seaside/Aida/Iliad than to Morphic, my help would
be limited.
I tried to be objective when comparing options, but let me say now
that I think the Cuis / Morphic 3 way is the best, and that I want to
convince you to follow it!
...(abridged)...
I'm looking for a mentor for the GSoC 2013. Ideally, the mentor has
a good understanding of the Morphic framework and maybe even HTML,
JavaScript and CSS (but I'm already quite familiar with this).
Best regards,
Matthias Springer
--
Matthias Springer * me@matthiasspringer.de * +49-1577-3814255
Student B.Sc. IT-Systems Engineering (Hasso-Plattner-Institut)
Stahnsdorfer Straße 144c, 14482 Potsdam
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Hi Sean,
Quoting "Sean P. DeNigris" sean@clipperadams.com:
Matthias Springer wrote
Regardless of whether you would be willing to participate as a mentor,
I'd like to know if this project is something you're interested in and
what features are most important for you.
This is a /fantastic/ proposal. I am extremely interested in having the
ability to write a non-standard Morphic UI and have it show up in a webpage
without any extra work.
Please see my response to Matthias' original message. The possibility
of writing non-standard Morphic UIs and running them in Amber would
depend on the approach taken. I don't see it possible if doing it in
html. Something closer to morphic.js and Lively Kernel would be needed.
Besides, the best (and esiest) way to do what you want is what I
suggest to Matthias: Use a Smalltalk Morphic server (better yet if it
is Cuis / Morphic 3), and a remote Amber morphic canvas. Something
like a Morphic specific VNC client done in Amber + Canvas.
In fact, that would be amazing! I'm also interested
in your idea for another important reason... Morphic is a mess!! What would
be great is if you focus on the required behavior without copying too much
of the implementation details. In this way, hopefully, we could backport
your clean implementation into Morphic and benefit from fresh eyes. I would
be happy to mentor as I'm more familiar with Morphic than I ever wanted to
be ;) But what would be /great/ is if you could hook up with Juan Vuletich
and pitch it to him. He did a rewrite of Morphic a while back and would be
an invaluable resource. Even if he can consult, it would be a huge help.
I'd be really happy to help. To what extent I can do it depends on the
chosen path. The closer Matthias goes to my preferred path, the more I
can help :)
Cheers,
Sean
View this message in context:
http://forum.world.st/GSoC-Project-Proposal-Morphic-for-Amber-Looking-for-mentor-tp4683856p4683986.html
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Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Hi Juan,
Morphic 3 is a reimplementation of Squeak Morphic with these
fundamental changes:
- Drawing is vector graphics (like HTML5 Canvas and SVG)
- Each morph defines a local coordinate system
- Coordinates are float, and not tied to Display coordinates
- Code is simplified and easier to understand
The new drawing engine will be published this year (MIT license). The
rest of the work is in the Morphs themselves, and is done
incrementally in the Cuis project. This means that the latest Cuis
default and only GUI is always the most current state of this work.
Right now, in Cuis, all morphs are specified in local float
coordinates, and the Morphic code is much smaller and easier to
understand that in other Squeak variants.
So Morphic3 is the rendering/drawing engine and Cuis provides the morphs
on top of Morphic3?
If I understand this correctly, this means not using Canvas for
drawing graphics (like LivelyKernel and morphic.js do), but using the
html rendering in the browser (more like Seaside, Iliad and and Aida).
This approach has pros and cons, but to me, it essencially means it is
not a real Morphic. A fundamental feature of Morphic is that the look
and behavior of morphs is completely done in Smalltalk, and therefore,
only limited by what the Display can show. This means not using any
external widgets library (like html widgets, or qt, or native OS
widgets, etc). In Morphic, it is possible to do stuff like the
EnvelopeEditorMorph, and what you see in LivelyKernel and morphic.js.
In html, we are limited to what the browsers provide.
I talked with several people about this and I think it is indeed better
and cleaner to use an HTML canvas for drawing. Putting divs together
with position:absolute - that's what I'm currently doing - is really
ugly. My plans for the next days are to experiment with HTML canvas and
try to shift all rendering to the canvas.
This means that you want the real Morphic power and flexibility. Then
the strategy would be to start by making a Morphic World that can host
the most basic morphs, maybe not unlike what morphic.js is doing, but
in Smalltalk (Amber). If you follow this path, the next question is
whether to use global coordinates (like Squeak, Pharo and other
derivatives, except Cuis, and like morphic.js) or local coordinates
(like LivelyKernel, Self and Cuis).
Sounds like a plan. My initial motivation was to get an existing Pharo
application running in Amber without changing too much code. But I'd
also be willing to change that application in order to get a better
Morphic implementation.
I didn't think about coordinate systems yet. In my current
implementation the top, left corner of a window is always 0@0 regardless
of where the window is located. That's the idea of local coordinates, right?
If you consider doing a remote, web based canvas for Cuis / Morphic 3
servers, I would be delighted to be your mentor, as your work would be
closely related to mine. Besides, I believe this would be the easiest
way to enable fully Morphic webapps in Smalltalk.
In my opinion, one of the biggest advantages of Amber is that you don't
need any particular web server or backend. A web browser is everything
you need and the whole Smalltalk VM is running in the web browser (it's
also much easier to set up). I'm also wondering whether remote rendering
is fast enough. You need to talk to the server on every event (mouse
click, mouse move (this is really expensive), keyboard, ...) and every
primitive you render must be sent to the client.
If you do a SVG Morphic for Amber, similar to morphic.js, I could also
help. This would mean that a longer term project would be needed to
bring it to the point of real compatibility with Squeak / Pharo / Cuis.
This is more or less what I had in mind, probably by drawing morphs onto
an HTML canvas. Maybe we can share code between Cuis and Amber for the
actual morphs, once I have implemented the drawing/rendering component.
It should be sufficient to implement the Morphic3 interface that is used
by Cuis and I can render all Cuis morphs from then on, right?
Best regards,
Matthias
--
Matthias Springer * me@matthiasspringer.de * +49-1577-3814255
Student B.Sc. IT-Systems Engineering (Hasso-Plattner-Institut)
Stahnsdorfer Straße 144c, 14482 Potsdam
On 28 April 2013 16:50, Matthias Springer me@matthiasspringer.de wrote:
Hi Juan,
Morphic 3 is a reimplementation of Squeak Morphic with these fundamental
changes:
- Drawing is vector graphics (like HTML5 Canvas and SVG)
- Each morph defines a local coordinate system
- Coordinates are float, and not tied to Display coordinates
- Code is simplified and easier to understand
The new drawing engine will be published this year (MIT license). The rest
of the work is in the Morphs themselves, and is done incrementally in the
Cuis project. This means that the latest Cuis default and only GUI is always
the most current state of this work. Right now, in Cuis, all morphs are
specified in local float coordinates, and the Morphic code is much smaller
and easier to understand that in other Squeak variants.
So Morphic3 is the rendering/drawing engine and Cuis provides the morphs on
top of Morphic3?
If I understand this correctly, this means not using Canvas for drawing
graphics (like LivelyKernel and morphic.js do), but using the html rendering
in the browser (more like Seaside, Iliad and and Aida). This approach has
pros and cons, but to me, it essencially means it is not a real Morphic. A
fundamental feature of Morphic is that the look and behavior of morphs is
completely done in Smalltalk, and therefore, only limited by what the
Display can show. This means not using any external widgets library (like
html widgets, or qt, or native OS widgets, etc). In Morphic, it is possible
to do stuff like the EnvelopeEditorMorph, and what you see in LivelyKernel
and morphic.js. In html, we are limited to what the browsers provide.
I talked with several people about this and I think it is indeed better and
cleaner to use an HTML canvas for drawing. Putting divs together with
position:absolute - that's what I'm currently doing - is really ugly. My
plans for the next days are to experiment with HTML canvas and try to shift
all rendering to the canvas.
This means that you want the real Morphic power and flexibility. Then the
strategy would be to start by making a Morphic World that can host the most
basic morphs, maybe not unlike what morphic.js is doing, but in Smalltalk
(Amber). If you follow this path, the next question is whether to use global
coordinates (like Squeak, Pharo and other derivatives, except Cuis, and like
morphic.js) or local coordinates (like LivelyKernel, Self and Cuis).
Sounds like a plan. My initial motivation was to get an existing Pharo
application running in Amber without changing too much code. But I'd also be
willing to change that application in order to get a better Morphic
implementation.
I didn't think about coordinate systems yet. In my current implementation
the top, left corner of a window is always 0@0 regardless of where the
window is located. That's the idea of local coordinates, right?
If you consider doing a remote, web based canvas for Cuis / Morphic 3
servers, I would be delighted to be your mentor, as your work would be
closely related to mine. Besides, I believe this would be the easiest way to
enable fully Morphic webapps in Smalltalk.
In my opinion, one of the biggest advantages of Amber is that you don't need
any particular web server or backend. A web browser is everything you need
and the whole Smalltalk VM is running in the web browser (it's also much
easier to set up). I'm also wondering whether remote rendering is fast
enough. You need to talk to the server on every event (mouse click, mouse
move (this is really expensive), keyboard, ...) and every primitive you
render must be sent to the client.
yes, and in that regard, http://gsoc2013.esug.org/projects/athens-html5-canvas
is way better alternative.
If you do a SVG Morphic for Amber, similar to morphic.js, I could also
help. This would mean that a longer term project would be needed to bring it
to the point of real compatibility with Squeak / Pharo / Cuis.
This is more or less what I had in mind, probably by drawing morphs onto an
HTML canvas. Maybe we can share code between Cuis and Amber for the actual
morphs, once I have implemented the drawing/rendering component. It should
be sufficient to implement the Morphic3 interface that is used by Cuis and I
can render all Cuis morphs from then on, right?
Best regards,
Matthias
--
Matthias Springer * me@matthiasspringer.de * +49-1577-3814255
Student B.Sc. IT-Systems Engineering (Hasso-Plattner-Institut)
Stahnsdorfer Straße 144c, 14482 Potsdam
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--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.
In my opinion, one of the biggest advantages of Amber is that you don't need
any particular web server or backend. A web browser is everything you need
and the whole Smalltalk VM is running in the web browser (it's also much
easier to set up). I'm also wondering whether remote rendering is fast
enough. You need to talk to the server on every event (mouse click, mouse
move (this is really expensive), keyboard, ...) and every primitive you
render must be sent to the client.
yes, and in that regard, http://gsoc2013.esug.org/projects/athens-html5-canvas
is way better alternative.
OK, I'm getting the feeling that it's probably best to implement a
proper HTML Canvas rendering engine (Athens) first and build a
Morphic(-like) framework (e.g. the morphs from Cuis) on top of that
afterwards. Having a good architecture is more important to me than
getting results as fast as possible.
--
Matthias Springer * me@matthiasspringer.de * +49-1577-3814255
Student B.Sc. IT-Systems Engineering (Hasso-Plattner-Institut)
Stahnsdorfer Straße 144c, 14482 Potsdam