TWL: Opinions on cruising full time
My wife and I are die hard boaters especially after completing a 1600+ mile
trip this past spring. I am wondering how does everyone do it? I realize
many of you are retired or early retirees. How about the working stiffs
such as myself. Do many of you work contractual jobs in various places of
the country/world wherever you stay for a while? Or like some people I met
this past w/e, drop out of society for a couple of years expecting to going
back to 'the grind' upon completion of the trip.
We're trying to figure out how we can do the same. Having a little problem
'selling the farm' and just jumping into it. I could do it but the other
half is more conservative. Just looking for thoughts from experience. Any
replies are appreciated.
Chris
M/V Mr Toads Wild Ride (ex. Raindrops)
'70 CC Commander 47
I'm looking forward to answers to this too! I don't even have a trawler
(yet) and am pretty new to all of this, either way, I'm going to give this
question a shot! My brother lives on a big sailboat and has for 20+ years
and no he isn't independently wealthy.
He sails for a couple of years and then docks for a year or so and works,
saves money and goes out again. When he's sailing he lives on the cheap, he
claims his largest bill is his wine bill.... anchors out, fishes, makes his
own water and power, he's got it down to a science. Over the past 20 years
in this life style he has gained some skills that he occasionally uses while
sailing to make money here and there, he is a finest woodworker I've ever
seen (for a quick peak at his talents go here:
http://whiticar.com/Picasso/InteriorPics/Master_Stateroom/Master%20Sink%20Ou
tside.jpg this is a sink he made for a sport fishing boat in Stuart, FL all
the wood including the sailfish is inlaid) so he has often used that skill
for a few extra bucks while he's sailing. However, he has also worked as a
waiter and cook in the islands too!
We, on the other hand, are going to try cruising for a couple of years, we
"think" we have the money to do that now (I need to get a handle better
handle on costs for this dream) and then after cruising for a couple of
years we will have a better handle on expenses.
We will probably have to go back to land for a bit and work some more, we
are very lucky in that our jobs are very mobile. I'm a web site designer
with a good client list and my husband is a registered nurse. Not big money
jobs - but jobs we can take virtually anywhere (although I'm not too sure
about my job when were cruising outside the US as I need internet and e-mail
access for an hour or so each day).
So that's our plan, I'd like to hear how others make it work.
Susan Sheehan
boatless in Cape Cod
bailey@cape.com
You know, there is a reason you don't see the words trawler, foreign
cruising, working people, and shoestring budget in the same sentence very
often.
How foreign were you thinking?
Rick
snip>> How foreign were you thinking?
Foreign meaning I've seen some listees who are from foreign ports (Europe,
Far East, etc.). World cruising I'm sure are reserved for a 'select few'.
Still would like to hear how they do it. Could always scale it back and use
it for reference.
Thanks for all the responses so far. Eager to hear more.
=
=>snip>> How foreign were you thinking?
=>
=Foreign meaning I've seen some listees who are from foreign ports (Europe,
=Far East, etc.). World cruising I'm sure are reserved for a 'select few'..
The problem here is that you've got a lot of elements working against each
other that you need to straighten out. Certainly, the boat you'd require
for much foreign cruising is a particular class of trawler referred to as a
passagemaker, which falls into the
if-you-have-to-ask-what-it-costs...category, both the buy-in and to run.
Another is the need to be tied to the internet. Only you could decide how
much wireless telephone overhead you can absorb into your operation, but I
know my own web development is extremely "on-line intensive" and I sure
wouldn't want your wireless phone bill. But that's only a workable solution
along the US coast anyway. Most internet cafes I know of run off of a
heavily fire walled server and plugging your laptop in for FTP would be
unwelcome. Overseas and while underway you've got some real communications
difficulties ahead of you. BTW, even out in the SoPac, web designers
weren't particularly in demand when we were out there. The locals did very
well, as they do here in the Caribbean. RNs could find work as replacement
care providers on many islands. Usually, RNs and Docs want a month to six
weeks off at a time. However, here in the Carib it's not hard to get
medical personnel to fill in (particularly during the winter months).
Moving from town to town every few months and getting a phone line strung
down to the dock could work, but your overhead will soar compared to those
anchoring out and dinghying in.
Frankly, if you're cruising on a tight budget, Trawlers, compared to a
sailboat, are going to eat you out of house and home. First, the buy-in for
an acceptable Trawler is pretty steep. For a lot of reasons the demand for
live-aboard quality trawler-type boats is high, while comparably quality and
equipped sailboats are going for a lot less right now. Second, are the
operation costs. For instance, it only cost us 50 gallons of diesel to get
from Annapolis to Puerto Rico via Bermuda because we sailed. If we have a
massive electrical or mechanical propulsion failure, we're not crippled in
some foreign (or high dollar stateside) port.
I don't want to open the trawler/sailboat debate. But the communities flow
from pretty different mindsets. It wasn't that long ago that we had a
discussion on this list about connecting a RO watermaker to an icemaker, not
the kind of thing we talk about on the worldcruising group.
But what you need is a plan:
First of all, buy in somewhere smaller than "passagemaker" and give it a
try for awhile. Most people say that it takes 6 months to get used to
living aboard. Second, a lot of people buy a boat because they really just
want a condo on the water. So decide if you really want to cruise full-time
or if you just want to change the scenery every now and then. If you buy
right and only want to move every now and then, you can probably maintain
your present life afloat for about the same costs.
You might be interested in the LiveAboard list, where we frequently discuss
these kinds of things:
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Rick
Rick the Mouseherder - nh2f
Westsail 32 Xapic, Hull #438
Cabo San Juan, Puerto Rico
A small boat and a suitcase full of money
beats a 40 footer tied to the Bank.
Creative graphic solutions in vinyl for your boat lettering & designs
http://www.mouseherder.com
Visit our Westsail 32 Xapic
http://www.mouseherder.com/xapic
The Westsail Owners Assn. Homepage
http://www.westsail.org
I'd like to respond to Rick's post... first he must have mixed a few
different postees together. I'm looking to buy a trawler to cruise the USA
coastal areas and Caribbean with my small family. I am not going across the
pond, that was someone else.
I'm not on a tight budget, so that must be someone else too, I'm not
independently wealthy but I wouldn't call our budgets tight at all. I'm not
looking for a cheap trawler either (not sure if it is appropriate to discuss
price on this list).
You did get it right that my husband is an RN and I'm a web designer... he's
has the travel nursing issue all wrapped up, there is a huge demand for
nurses all over the USA, when we go to the Caribbean we plan to vacation,
not work.
As far as my job, I not only don't need any new clients I don't want any, so
the demand for web designers in the islands isn't an issue, I have a steady
client list (I've had 42 of my clients for over 5 years) and that list
produces a nice steady monthly income. I do most of my design work off
line and just need FTP about 1/2 hour or so a day. I do about an hour of
e-mail a day as well, but I can really lessen that by downloading and
composing off line. So I will need to find internet access in the USA and
islands. I've figured the firewalls exist in the internet cafe's and
libraries, thanks for confirming that, so I'll have to look into something
else. My isp provider has local and toll free numbers (free to the owner of
the phone line, 10 cents a minute added to my account) to dial into all over
the USA so I just need a phone line!
We are looking to buy a trawler and take a couple of years off of work to
cruise, then we are hoping to work occasionally after that. We have an
income from investments but I'm not sure if it is sufficient for our dream,
so I'm trying to come up with a realistic budget, this is especially true if
I can't find reliable internet access and have to sell my business.
Susan Sheehan
bailey@cape.com
(snip)
We are looking to buy a trawler and take a couple of years off of work to
cruise, then we are hoping to work occasionally after that. We have an
income from investments but I'm not sure if it is sufficient for our
dream,
so I'm trying to come up with a realistic budget, this is especially true
if
I can't find reliable internet access and have to sell my business.
(end snip)
Susan, you don't have a real problem here. More and more marinas are
offering internet access, or at least a phone line for transients to use.
We never had a problem with that anywhere on the coast. Using AOL in our
case, I'd just truck the laptop up to the office and plug in, download
everything, compose offline, then send the whole lot up at once.
What we DID have a problem with was the supposed cell phone access, which
worked fine at our home port but was spotty at best when we got out of range
of the first tower. The cell companies seem to sell time on their towers to
each other, which works but there are little pops and clicks in the
transmission which don't bother voice communication but play hell with data
transfers. Hope that's improved in the last couple of years.
M.J. Taylor
Lucky VII
Re: Budgeting for full time cruising, I had seriously considered it at one
time and researched the subject. I concluded that Sail was the only way to
go. More recently I've not so much have changed my mind as I've realized
that there is a power option. I had picked up a copy of George Buehler's
"The Troller (not trawler) Yacht." He argued, and pretty well convinced me,
that long term power cruising can be done economically, safely and
comfortably. He recommends converting fishing trollers into cruising
yachts. Typically a fishing troller is fairly narrow with a low power, but
efficient diesel engine. I've seen many splendid conversions.
Over the past few years, Canada has bought out many commercial fishing
licenses leaving ex fishermen with unusable boats. An acquaintence bought
a 36 foot seiner in BC, brought it down to Anacortes and spent six months
refurbishing it. That consisted mostly of rewireing, redoing the deckhouse
and converting the former fish hold into a stateroom. When I saw the boat,
the couple who owned it (early 50s) were bunkering up for an extended trip
to Alaska. They were talking years. Their deckhouse looked like a judge's
office. Polished brass and woodpaneling. New radar, depth sounder, nav
equipment. The deck was a tad crowded (long and narrow) but most time was
spent inside the deckhouse. I asked how much the project cost. To my
shock and amazement, he said $55 Thou.
On a recent trip to Canada (Vancouver Is), I was amazed and delighted to
find that "Internet Cafes" existed in many small towns. I had left my
laptop at home assuming (incorrectly) that internet access was not in the
cards. One internet cafe was in a tiny Canadian town a half block from the
waterfront. It was run by a couple of new age ladies of ambiguous gender
identity. They had a permanent Web connection. I simply logged onto
hotmail and used the option that let me check my regular ISP (USWest)
account. They insisted that I buy a cup of coffee as fee. I live in
Seattle, so this was no hardship.
USWest has sold my account to MSN, so access in remote Canadian areas might
be a tad better. We'll see. At any rate, my laptop accompanies me on my
next trip.
Re: Cell phones in the PacNW, after long study, I opted for AT&T wireless.
They claimed coverage well up into Canada. Again to my pleasant surprise,
the claim proved true. I was able to call home and get a clear reception
all the way up to Nainaimo. The only problem we had was when my cousin
tried to call her office in San Jose as we were going thru Deception Pass.
We connected with an analog signal and she was able to communicate ("Hey
suckers, guess where I'm at now?") but the signal was scratchy and poor.
Jerry Schroeder
M/V Surprise
21' Ranger R21
Ballard WA
I can't find reliable internet access and have to sell my business.
(end snip)
Susan, you don't have a real problem here. More and more marinas are
offering internet access, or at least a phone line for transients to use.
We never had a problem with that anywhere on the coast. Using AOL in our
case, I'd just truck the laptop up to the office and plug in, download
everything, compose offline, then send the whole lot up at once.
This is sort of a response to Rick and Susan's recent thread, but I thought
it needed a new subject.
G'day all, I'm writing this on Swan Song in Nanny Cay Marina, Tortola, BVI.
Connected wirelessly at 11 mbs to a shore side ADSL line. In other words I
have ADSL on Swan Song without wires.
It is my understanding that this technology will be installed in Marinas
thru-out the US in the near future. It already is in use on campuses and
companies all over. In fact you may have one in the office. Dell, Sony and
other are including the transceivers in their new laptops.
It is cheap but not free ;-) Using the tried and true 801b standard. A shore
based, i.e. marina supplied, Ethernet wireless Access point or two or three
of them to cover the marina and even to boats moored near-by. 1000 to 2000
foot range.
Slip a standard 802b wireless card into your PCMIA port and voila instant
surfing at ADSL speeds.
Cost?? The marina side is about $1500/access point, the user side $150-200.
The user side will work with any 802b WiFi Access point.
This sort of is like the marina has the "cell sites" and you have the
"phone". And the phone works with any cell.
So why does the marina want to do this for you?? $$$$$$ They can split one
ADSL line into many users...most Access Points can handle 64 or more users.
They get the ADSL line and in effect rent it out to many users. Happy marina
owners and happier marina customers.
I know there are always going to be "other" technologies just like the cell
phone compatibility issue world wide. But for "cheap high speed access" I
haven't found anything better. Satellite???? If and when it works its a
bazillion bucks a month down here. Local Dial-up is $1.50/hr plus $1/hr for
the internet. ADSL is $99/month unlimited use. 2 way Satellite, 48" dish
w/tracking and dome for $15K is $100/month if it works.
In a nutshell as time goes on, the alternatives to surfing from your trawler
grow. 802b looks like it has caught on if Dell et. al. are making it a part
of their computers. So we, in the very small marine community, may benefit.
Go and beat up your marina operator and tell him he's losing money....always
a good way to get their attention :-) Have him look it.
One of the great side benefits is being able to listen to virtually ANY
radio station/format in the world via a media player. Opera from Milan to
country from Texas to BBC world news. Click the mouse and you are connected!
Cheers
Dave & Nancy
Swan Song
58' RoughWater
Tortola, BVI
Susan Sheehan wrote, "<snip> We have an income from investments but I'm not
sure if it is sufficient for our dream, so I'm trying to come up with a
realistic budget, this is especially true if I can't find reliable internet
access and have to sell my business."
You don't need to do that. As M.J. Taylor pointed out you can access
landlines or as Dave Cooper pointed out you can use wireless 802b links when
you are in a marine.
When those options aren't available you can use cell phones or satellite
phones. Satellite phone aren't cheap to use for personal use, but for you it
is just part of the cost of doing business from wherever you want to go. The
first thing you need to do is minimize your data transmission requirements.
One way to do this is get a good file transfer program that has a "delta
transfer" capability. This works by comparing revised files to previous
versions that exist on both ends and then only sending the changes. A good
delta transfer program can reduce data transmission requirements by a factor
of 10 on the average.
I had intended to use DirectPC with satellite uplink, which sometimes is
called two way DirectPC and but recently changed to DirectWAY, but on closer
inspection I found that in their FAQ it says that it was only for fixed
installations. So I called them and they confirmed that it can not be used
in mobile applications. It seams that the system is not smart enough to keep
track of your receiver location when you move from one spot beam to another.
To evaluate the remaining alternatives, the best source of information I
have found far is http://www.satphonestore.com. As they point out you need
to decide where you want to be able to communicate from, the US or Europe
only alternatives are 29% and 20% cheaper than the world wide options, and
how fast you need to communicate. The how fast question mainly drives the
hardware cost.
Iridium: has a new data transmission option of 2 kbps to dial-up and 10 kbps
(with compression) for "direct internet data service". The direct internet
data service actually only remains connected for the time you are
transmitting or receiving so you only get charged for actual usage as
opposed to paying for connect time. The rate for direct internet data
service is $1.16 per minute, which equates to $1.93 per MB. If you send 100
MB per day it would cost $193, but is you reduce that to 10 MB with delta
transfer it is only $19.30. The hardware cost for Iridium (make sure you get
a data capable phone) starts $495 for a refurbished Motorola Satellite
Series 9500 to $2,195 for a Eurocom Fixed Iridium Maritime System.
Activation fee cost is $20 and monthly fee is $20. Iridium has recently
emerged from bankruptcy partially due to a long term service contract with
the US government and appears to be quite stable now.
Inmarsat: has two service options. Mini-M and M3. Mini-M is their lower cost
lower rate (data and fax @ 2.4 kbps) service, good enough for normal phone
calls and faxes. M3 is higher quality and higher data rate (64 kbps)
service. For transmitting data Mini-M cost is $2.30 per minute which equates
to $15.97 per MB. M3 cost (ship to shore) is $7.50 per minute which equates
to $1.95 per MB. They have recently implemented Mobile Packet Data service
which they claim provides, "Cost-effective communication of packets of data
at high quality and up to 64kbit/s. Charged for volume of data transmitted
as opposed to length of time connected (as with Mobile ISDN)." In comparing
this to Iridium you need to take into account that Iridium claims up to 10
kbps (depending on compression level) so using compression with Inmarsat
could achieve up to 4 times higher throughput and reduce cost
proportionally. The hardware cost of the Inmarsat M3 system is $12,995. No
activation fees or minimum monthly fees. Inmarsat is by far the most stable
satellite phone provider.
MarineSat: covers all 50 states of the USA, nearly all of Canada, central
America and the Caribbean. Data transmission rate is 14.4 kbps at $1.19/min
or $1.38 per MB. Hardware cost is $1,899.95. Activation fees $50 and the
monthly fee is $15.
Thuraya: covers parts of Europe, Mid East, Asia, Africa. Date transmission
rate is 9.6 kbps at $0.89/min or $1.55/mb. Hardware cost is $930. The
activation fee is $30 and the monthly fee is $20.
Globalstar: claims world wide coverage, but since Globalstar can not relay
satellite to satellite it only works if a satellite within your line of
sight is within line of sight of a ground station. Globalstar's data
transmission rate is 9.6 kbps at $1.39/min or $2.41/MB. Hardware cost is
$750, activation is $50 and the monthly fee is $10. IMHO Globalstar is
currently less stable than hot nitroglycerin in an earthquake.
Now that I have finished typing this it has probably changed yet again,
although I think the main changes for the near term will be each provider
adjusting to changes in their competitors services and prices. This is an
industry where service is constantly improving and cost is decreasing, so if
you can quite afford it today you might be able to afford it tomorrow.
Regards;
Mike Schooley
Trailerable Trawler wannabe