Hi all, I'm considering to purchase a USRP X410 for one of research projects. the objective of this project is MIMO operation, I have some questions. Q1. Does each channel on X410 support phase-aligned and phase-corent operation? Q2. Does each channel on multi X410s support phase-aligned and phase-corent operation? Q3. What is "Limited performance"? [3] Limited performance four-channel phase-coherent operation within a single radio is under investigation https://www.ettus.com/all-products/usrp-x410/

On 2022-05-16 04:17, Mikio Fukushima wrote: > Hi all, > I'm considering to purchase a USRP X410 for one of research projects. > the objective of this project is MIMO operation, I have some questions. > > Q1. > Does each channel on X410 support phase-aligned and phase-corent > operation? It isn't meaningful to consider phase-coherence and phase-alignment on a single channel. The phase-coherence and alignment is always with respect to other channels. > > Q2. > Does each channel on multi X410s support phase-aligned and > phase-corent operation? > > Q3. > What is "Limited performance"? > > [3] Limited performance four-channel phase-coherent operation within a > single radio is under investigation I'm not sure what "limited performance" means, nor what the schedule for that is, but I know that in  initial release, the X410 does NOT support   mutual phase-coherence even within a single radio. > > https://www.ettus.com/all-products/usrp-x410/ > > _______________________________________________ > USRP-users mailing list -- usrp-users@lists.ettus.com > To unsubscribe send an email to usrp-users-leave@lists.ettus.com

In order to get Phase alignment in a normal fashion, circuitry has to be in place to share the Local oscillator on the RF up and down convert chain. The X410 is able to use a common 10MHz reference for all ADC/DACs which would also be required for a truly phase coherent application. The USRP X410 doesn't have that LO sharing capability built in, The USRP N320 & USRP N321 was built with this circuitry by default. Depending on the performance you need we actually built a full multi-channel phase coherent reference architecture on the USRP N320/N321, you can learn more about that here. https://www.ni.com/en-us/solutions/aerospace-defense/radar-electronic-warfare-sigint/radar-ew-research-prototyping/build-radar-ew-testbeds.html Back to your X410 question, I believe there is a way to lock each channel on the X410 to the 10MHZ frequency reference such that there is no frequency difference channel to channel on the LO. However, that doesn't guarantee a fixed phase difference channel to channel on each initialization, I believe the SDR Product Engineering team was looking at ways to mitigate that uncertainty through a shared digital reset, I've forwarded this question to our product management team to respond with more details into that research project, which is what I was referring to on the notes you found on Ettus.com 😊 With that said, if you are looking for more than 4 channels (IE more than 1x X410 radio) that might get difficult but we can have that conversation to see what is possible, the USRP N320/N321 is the recommended radio currently for such system configurations currently. Hopefully that helps. Haydn Nelson Principal Solutions Marketing Manager Wireless/Radar/EW & EOIR Test Solutions Aerospace and Defense +1-512-731-7251 | ni.com -----Original Message----- From: Marcus D. Leech <patchvonbraun@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2022 9:11 AM To: usrp-users@lists.ettus.com Subject: [EXTERNAL] [USRP-users] Re: Does X410 support phase-aligned and phase-corent? On 2022-05-16 04:17, Mikio Fukushima wrote: > Hi all, > I'm considering to purchase a USRP X410 for one of research projects. > the objective of this project is MIMO operation, I have some questions. > > Q1. > Does each channel on X410 support phase-aligned and phase-corent > operation? It isn't meaningful to consider phase-coherence and phase-alignment on a single channel. The phase-coherence and alignment is always with respect to other channels. > > Q2. > Does each channel on multi X410s support phase-aligned and > phase-corent operation? > > Q3. > What is "Limited performance"? > > [3] Limited performance four-channel phase-coherent operation within a > single radio is under investigation I'm not sure what "limited performance" means, nor what the schedule for that is, but I know that in initial release, the X410 does NOT support mutual phase-coherence even within a single radio. > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ettus.com/all-products/usrp-x410/__;!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!qK9xBuKBWusDewCqTkeFl1SjAew_36nFIxqesMafqOGheMElwp5DK15Ie-TLiYI6NBKQgznYDfh0DZ1WtHDYug$ > > _______________________________________________ > USRP-users mailing list -- usrp-users@lists.ettus.com > To unsubscribe send an email to usrp-users-leave@lists.ettus.com _______________________________________________ USRP-users mailing list -- usrp-users@lists.ettus.com To unsubscribe send an email to usrp-users-leave@lists.ettus.com INTERNAL - NI CONFIDENTIAL

Hi Marcus, Haydn. The Rader EW testbed(N31x) looks good for our project. I will consider it. I expect the next version X410 does support phase-coherent and phase-aligned. Regards, 2022年5月16日(月) 23:26 Haydn Nelson <haydn.nelson@ni.com>: > In order to get Phase alignment in a normal fashion, circuitry has to be > in place to share the Local oscillator on the RF up and down convert chain. > The X410 is able to use a common 10MHz reference for all ADC/DACs which > would also be required for a truly phase coherent application. > The USRP X410 doesn't have that LO sharing capability built in, The USRP > N320 & USRP N321 was built with this circuitry by default. > > Depending on the performance you need we actually built a full > multi-channel phase coherent reference architecture on the USRP N320/N321, > you can learn more about that here. > > https://www.ni.com/en-us/solutions/aerospace-defense/radar-electronic-warfare-sigint/radar-ew-research-prototyping/build-radar-ew-testbeds.html > > Back to your X410 question, I believe there is a way to lock each channel > on the X410 to the 10MHZ frequency reference such that there is no > frequency difference channel to channel on the LO. > However, that doesn't guarantee a fixed phase difference channel to > channel on each initialization, I believe the SDR Product Engineering team > was looking at ways to mitigate that uncertainty through a shared digital > reset, I've forwarded this question to our product management team to > respond with more details into that research project, which is what I was > referring to on the notes you found on Ettus.com 😊 > > With that said, if you are looking for more than 4 channels (IE more than > 1x X410 radio) that might get difficult but we can have that conversation > to see what is possible, the USRP N320/N321 is the recommended radio > currently for such system configurations currently. > > Hopefully that helps. > > Haydn Nelson > Principal Solutions Marketing Manager > Wireless/Radar/EW & EOIR Test Solutions > Aerospace and Defense > +1-512-731-7251 | ni.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marcus D. Leech <patchvonbraun@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2022 9:11 AM > To: usrp-users@lists.ettus.com > Subject: [EXTERNAL] [USRP-users] Re: Does X410 support phase-aligned and > phase-corent? > > On 2022-05-16 04:17, Mikio Fukushima wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm considering to purchase a USRP X410 for one of research projects. > > the objective of this project is MIMO operation, I have some questions. > > > > Q1. > > Does each channel on X410 support phase-aligned and phase-corent > > operation? > It isn't meaningful to consider phase-coherence and phase-alignment on a > single channel. The phase-coherence and alignment is always with respect to > other channels. > > > > > Q2. > > Does each channel on multi X410s support phase-aligned and > > phase-corent operation? > > > > Q3. > > What is "Limited performance"? > > > > [3] Limited performance four-channel phase-coherent operation within a > > single radio is under investigation > I'm not sure what "limited performance" means, nor what the schedule for > that is, but I know that in initial release, the X410 does NOT support > mutual phase-coherence even within a single radio. > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ettus.com/all-products/usrp-x410/__;!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!qK9xBuKBWusDewCqTkeFl1SjAew_36nFIxqesMafqOGheMElwp5DK15Ie-TLiYI6NBKQgznYDfh0DZ1WtHDYug$ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > USRP-users mailing list -- usrp-users@lists.ettus.com > > To unsubscribe send an email to usrp-users-leave@lists.ettus.com > _______________________________________________ > USRP-users mailing list -- usrp-users@lists.ettus.com > To unsubscribe send an email to usrp-users-leave@lists.ettus.com > > INTERNAL - NI CONFIDENTIAL > _______________________________________________ > USRP-users mailing list -- usrp-users@lists.ettus.com > To unsubscribe send an email to usrp-users-leave@lists.ettus.com > -- 2021/09/27から新事務所に移転しました！ ================================== 福島 幹雄 (Mikio Fukushima) 株式会社ドルフィンシステム (Dolphin System Co.,Ltd) 〒171-0014 東京都豊島区池袋１－８－５ ミントロンビル５Ｆ Mail: mikio@dolphinsystem.jp URL : http://www.dolphinsystem.jp/ TEL/FAX : 03-6658-4949 ==================================

Hi Haydn. Does The Rader EW testbed(N31x) support not only N320/N321 but also USRP N310? https://www.ni.com/en-us/solutions/aerospace-defense/radar-electronic-warfare-sigint/radar-ew-research-prototyping/build-radar-ew-testbeds.html Regards,

Mikio, The Radar EW testbed does not support the N310. Currently it only supports the N320/N321 USRP. Because the LO Input is different on the N310 it would significantly reduce the frequency range if used with the N321. Regards, -Jovian Wysocki From: Mikio Fukushima <mikio@dolphinsystem.jp> Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 4:29 AM To: Haydn Nelson <haydn.nelson@ni.com> Cc: usrp-users@lists.ettus.com <usrp-users@lists.ettus.com>, Marian Koop <marian.koop@ni.com> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [USRP-users] Re: Does X410 support phase-aligned and phase-corent? Hi Haydn. Does The Rader EW testbed(N31x) support not only N320/N321 but also USRP N310? https://www.ni.com/en-us/solutions/aerospace-defense/radar-electronic-warfare-sigint/radar-ew-research-prototyping/build-radar-ew-testbeds.html Regards, INTERNAL - NI CONFIDENTIAL

Jovian, The differences between the N310 and the N321/N320 are 1. N310 has no LO distribution board. 2. The LO input frequency must be twice the frequency of the desired RF output frequency. The Radar EW testbed can run with N310s if I prepare an external LO distribution amp and LO source (twice freq). doesn't it? Regards, Mikio