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sailor1205

Fri, May 17, 2019 11:49 AM

I can not believe mall this email crap about people who want to have an excuse to sail on a boat on a beautiful Wednesday evening.
Everyone wants to be a lawyer!

Sent via the AT&T TREK™ 2 HD a 4G LTE tablet

Kaprel Ozsolak via Wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org wrote:

I really don’t think the “a” in the SI is intended to limit the number of radios on board to just one. I think it is meant to suggest that "at least" one radio. Also, doesn’t any radio radios worth its salt come with the "dual watch” (or even Triwatch”) feature now?

For those who may not be aware. Below is from an iCom user manual.

Dual Watch or TriWatch allows you to monitor a working channel, like VHF Channel 72, and then pop back to VHF Channel 16 to check for traffic every two seconds or so. This is related to the requirement that mariners maintain a watch on Channel 16 so they can go to the aid of someone broadcasting a Mayday, as well as to listen for their vessel being hailed by another boater. TriWatch adds VHF Channel 9 to the scan list, which can be a hassle in areas where VHF Channel 9 is used for fishing chatter. In any case, virtually all radios have Dual and/or TriWatch.

On May 17, 2019, at 1:30 AM, Marco Moretti via Wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org wrote:

Thank you John.

Interesting subject.

From a purely academic perspective I note the following:

The NBC wednesday SI 18.4 State:
'All boats must have a working VHF radio and monitor it for announcements from the RC, OCS, abandonment and change of course will be announced by VHF.

The same SI at 19.1 state: "All communications to and from the RC shall be on VHF channel 78."

It appears that the sum of the two rules (one VHF + request to monitor channel 78) induces racers to disregard Coast Guard Regulations which state:

Radio Watchkeeping Regulations
In general, any vessel equipped with a VHF marine radiotelephone (whether voluntarily or required to) must maintain a watch on channel 16 (156.800 MHz) whenever the radiotelephone is not being used to communicate.

Source: FCC 47 CFR §§ 80.148, 80.310, NTIA Manual 8.2.29.6.c(2)(e), ITU RR 31.18, 52.244

I see the logic of the CG and FCC regulations beyond the legal requirement and I can imagine the danger of following the SI as it pertains to "communication" while racing: What would happen, for example, if a tug-barge coming down the channel has a breakdown, its captain sends a Pon-Pon to all station on channel 16 and makes an unexpected maneuver in front of a bunch of sailors blissfully ignorant of the issue while they are monitoring CH 78 for "Changes" and other inconsequential communication?

I reflect upon these issues as I am getting ready to coach two new members of the club to race in our fleets, hopefully in the safest way possible. The hailing frequency on the Hudson and the rest of the world is Channel 16. I think the inducement to monitor anything else is potentially imprudent.

My two cents.

Thank you and regards.

The contents of this e-mail message and any files andattachments are confidential and are intended solely for addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. This transmission is sent in trust, for the sole purpose of delivery to the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, any use, reproduction or dissemination of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail or phone and delete this message and its attachments, if any.

On Thursday, May 16, 2019, 10:23:58 PM EDT, John Sheehan via Wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org wrote:

Wednesday night racers,

As mentioned by Howie and Eric, this request for redress came too late. Also, I believe the RC properly announced the change in course. Explanation is below. I also wrote a little speech about racer conduct on VHF 78.

Protests, including protests against the Race Committee, must be made within one hour after the RC boat reaches her mooring.

Course changes
Our SIs allow the RC to announce course changes on VHF Channel 78. The RC did this properly, since the change was announced before any boat rounded Mark C.

I was fortunate to be corresponding with a representative from US Sailing about our SIs, so I asked about last night's situation. Here is their answer:

Technically, the current SIs allow the PRO to verbally change the next leg of the course. Verbal changes are NOT recommended for many reasons we can discuss in June. The verbal change MUST follow RRS 33 – the announcement MUST be made to ALL boats before they begin the changed leg. The hail should include bearing to the new mark and an indication if the leg length has been changed. IF all of this was not properly done (the hail was not done in a timely fashion and all of the required information was not provided) AND a boat was significantly disadvantaged, that boat can request redress.

While US Sailing isn't in favor of verbal changes, Howie and the RC met the above criteria, and properly changed the course.

Racer conduct on VHF
The purpose of VHF 78 is for checking in, RC communication with racers, alerting racers of emergencies or potential danger, and perhaps asking RC a question which they have no obligation to answer. It is not a format for racers to give running commentary and recommendations to the race committee. I think that some of last night's behavior on VHF could be deemed misconduct, defined by 69.1(b)(1) as ". . .conduct that is a breach of good manners. . ."

So let's conduct ourselves with good manners on VHF so your fellow competitors don't feel compelled to turn it off.

And let's file protests on time, and have fun!

John Sheehan
Chair, Race Committee
Nyack Boat Club

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:03 PM John Ivan Sutter, MD, MS via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org mailto:wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote:

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I can not believe mall this email crap about people who want to have an excuse to sail on a boat on a beautiful Wednesday evening. Everyone wants to be a lawyer! Sent via the AT&T TREK™ 2 HD a 4G LTE tablet Kaprel Ozsolak via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote: > I really don’t think the “a” in the SI is intended to limit the number of radios on board to just one. I think it is meant to suggest that "at least" one radio. Also, doesn’t any radio radios worth its salt come with the "dual watch” (or even Triwatch”) feature now? > >For those who may not be aware. Below is from an iCom user manual. > >Dual Watch or TriWatch allows you to monitor a working channel, like VHF Channel 72, and then pop back to VHF Channel 16 to check for traffic every two seconds or so. This is related to the requirement that mariners maintain a watch on Channel 16 so they can go to the aid of someone broadcasting a Mayday, as well as to listen for their vessel being hailed by another boater. TriWatch adds VHF Channel 9 to the scan list, which can be a hassle in areas where VHF Channel 9 is used for fishing chatter. In any case, virtually all radios have Dual and/or TriWatch. > > >> On May 17, 2019, at 1:30 AM, Marco Moretti via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote: >> >> Thank you John. >> >> Interesting subject. >> >> From a purely academic perspective I note the following: >> >> The NBC wednesday SI 18.4 State: >> 'All boats must have a working VHF radio and monitor it for announcements from the RC, OCS, abandonment and change of course will be announced by VHF. >> >> The same SI at 19.1 state: "All communications to and from the RC shall be on VHF channel 78." >> >> It appears that the sum of the two rules (one VHF + request to monitor channel 78) induces racers to disregard Coast Guard Regulations which state: >> >> Radio Watchkeeping Regulations >> In general, any vessel equipped with a VHF marine radiotelephone (whether voluntarily or required to) must maintain a watch on channel 16 (156.800 MHz) whenever the radiotelephone is not being used to communicate. >> >> Source: FCC 47 CFR §§ 80.148, 80.310, NTIA Manual 8.2.29.6.c(2)(e), ITU RR 31.18, 52.244 >> >> I see the logic of the CG and FCC regulations beyond the legal requirement and I can imagine the danger of following the SI as it pertains to "communication" while racing: What would happen, for example, if a tug-barge coming down the channel has a breakdown, its captain sends a Pon-Pon to all station on channel 16 and makes an unexpected maneuver in front of a bunch of sailors blissfully ignorant of the issue while they are monitoring CH 78 for "Changes" and other inconsequential communication? >> >> I reflect upon these issues as I am getting ready to coach two new members of the club to race in our fleets, hopefully in the safest way possible. The hailing frequency on the Hudson and the rest of the world is Channel 16. I think the inducement to monitor anything else is potentially imprudent. >> >> My two cents. >> >> Thank you and regards. >> >> The contents of this e-mail message and any files andattachments are confidential and are intended solely for addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. This transmission is sent in trust, for the sole purpose of delivery to the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, any use, reproduction or dissemination of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail or phone and delete this message and its attachments, if any. >> >> >> >> On Thursday, May 16, 2019, 10:23:58 PM EDT, John Sheehan via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote: >> >> >> Wednesday night racers, >> >> As mentioned by Howie and Eric, this request for redress came too late. Also, I believe the RC properly announced the change in course. Explanation is below. I also wrote a little speech about racer conduct on VHF 78. >> >> Protests, including protests against the Race Committee, must be made within one hour after the RC boat reaches her mooring. >> >> Course changes >> Our SIs allow the RC to announce course changes on VHF Channel 78. The RC did this properly, since the change was announced before any boat rounded Mark C. >> >> I was fortunate to be corresponding with a representative from US Sailing about our SIs, so I asked about last night's situation. Here is their answer: >> >> Technically, the current SIs allow the PRO to verbally change the next leg of the course. Verbal changes are NOT recommended for many reasons we can discuss in June. The verbal change MUST follow RRS 33 – the announcement MUST be made to ALL boats before they begin the changed leg. The hail should include bearing to the new mark and an indication if the leg length has been changed. IF all of this was not properly done (the hail was not done in a timely fashion and all of the required information was not provided) AND a boat was significantly disadvantaged, that boat can request redress. >> >> While US Sailing isn't in favor of verbal changes, Howie and the RC met the above criteria, and properly changed the course. >> >> Racer conduct on VHF >> The purpose of VHF 78 is for checking in, RC communication with racers, alerting racers of emergencies or potential danger, and perhaps asking RC a question which they have no obligation to answer. It is not a format for racers to give running commentary and recommendations to the race committee. I think that some of last night's behavior on VHF could be deemed misconduct, defined by 69.1(b)(1) as ". . .conduct that is a breach of good manners. . ." >> >> So let's conduct ourselves with good manners on VHF so your fellow competitors don't feel compelled to turn it off. >> >> And let's file protests on time, and have fun! >> >> John Sheehan >> Chair, Race Committee >> Nyack Boat Club >> >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:03 PM John Ivan Sutter, MD, MS via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org>> wrote: >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wednightracing mailing list >> Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> >> http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org <http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wednightracing mailing list >> Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> >> http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org <http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wednightracing mailing list >> Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org >> http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org > > >_______________________________________________ >Wednightracing mailing list >Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org >http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org

KO

Kaprel Ozsolak

Fri, May 17, 2019 11:59 AM

Hey Morris,

Since you responded to my email, I am assuming that you called my email “crap” and me a "wannabe lawyer". You don’t get to talk to me in that manner and you certainly don’t get to tell me what to say or when to say it.

You can take yourself off the distribution list if you don’t want be bothered fellow members.

On May 17, 2019, at 7:49 AM, sailor1205 sailor1205@aol.com wrote:

I can not believe mall this email crap about people who want to have an excuse to sail on a boat on a beautiful Wednesday evening.
Everyone wants to be a lawyer!

Sent via the AT&T TREK™ 2 HD a 4G LTE tablet

Kaprel Ozsolak via Wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org wrote:

I really don’t think the “a” in the SI is intended to limit the number of radios on board to just one. I think it is meant to suggest that "at least" one radio. Also, doesn’t any radio radios worth its salt come with the "dual watch” (or even Triwatch”) feature now?

For those who may not be aware. Below is from an iCom user manual.

Dual Watch or TriWatch allows you to monitor a working channel, like VHF Channel 72, and then pop back to VHF Channel 16 to check for traffic every two seconds or so. This is related to the requirement that mariners maintain a watch on Channel 16 so they can go to the aid of someone broadcasting a Mayday, as well as to listen for their vessel being hailed by another boater. TriWatch adds VHF Channel 9 to the scan list, which can be a hassle in areas where VHF Channel 9 is used for fishing chatter. In any case, virtually all radios have Dual and/or TriWatch.

On May 17, 2019, at 1:30 AM, Marco Moretti via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org mailto:wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote:

Thank you John.

Interesting subject.

From a purely academic perspective I note the following:

The NBC wednesday SI 18.4 State:
'All boats must have a working VHF radio and monitor it for announcements from the RC, OCS, abandonment and change of course will be announced by VHF.

The same SI at 19.1 state: "All communications to and from the RC shall be on VHF channel 78."

It appears that the sum of the two rules (one VHF + request to monitor channel 78) induces racers to disregard Coast Guard Regulations which state:

Radio Watchkeeping Regulations
In general, any vessel equipped with a VHF marine radiotelephone (whether voluntarily or required to) must maintain a watch on channel 16 (156.800 MHz) whenever the radiotelephone is not being used to communicate.

Source: FCC 47 CFR §§ 80.148, 80.310, NTIA Manual 8.2.29.6.c(2)(e), ITU RR 31.18, 52.244

I see the logic of the CG and FCC regulations beyond the legal requirement and I can imagine the danger of following the SI as it pertains to "communication" while racing: What would happen, for example, if a tug-barge coming down the channel has a breakdown, its captain sends a Pon-Pon to all station on channel 16 and makes an unexpected maneuver in front of a bunch of sailors blissfully ignorant of the issue while they are monitoring CH 78 for "Changes" and other inconsequential communication?

I reflect upon these issues as I am getting ready to coach two new members of the club to race in our fleets, hopefully in the safest way possible. The hailing frequency on the Hudson and the rest of the world is Channel 16. I think the inducement to monitor anything else is potentially imprudent.

My two cents.

Thank you and regards.

The contents of this e-mail message and any files andattachments are confidential and are intended solely for addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. This transmission is sent in trust, for the sole purpose of delivery to the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, any use, reproduction or dissemination of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail or phone and delete this message and its attachments, if any.

On Thursday, May 16, 2019, 10:23:58 PM EDT, John Sheehan via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org mailto:wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote: