Empathy List Archives

I

iovane@inwind.it

Mon, Aug 17, 2009 11:51 AM

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:18:58 +1200 Bruce Griffiths wrote:

Steve Rooke wrote:

2009/8/17 Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz:

Please, how do time-nuts measure phase noise? What may be a minimal setup whit recording capability?
Thanks,
Antonio I8IOV

snip

Use 3 sources, S1, S2 and X.
Phase lock S1 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer
using a low bandwidth PLL.
Phase lock S2 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer
using a low bandwidth PLL.

Then for frequencies outside the PLL bandwidth the crosspower spectrum
of the 2 mixer outputs should be predominantly due to the phase noise X.

In practice its best if the phase noise of the 2 standards S1, S2 isn't
significantly worse than that of X.

It is also desirable that both S1 and X and S2 and X be locked at their
respective mixers quadrature point (not necessarily the same as that for
zero dc output)

Bruce

Bruce,

is this what actually time-nuts do? This is unpractical for me, as I have not much
time for a circuit building project. Moreover, I would be satisfied even with the
analysis at a single frequency, not necessarily the whole phase noise spectrum,
and with relative but repeatable measurements.
So, does it make any sense using a selective voltmeter, such as an HP 3586A or
similar?

Antonio I8IOV

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:18:58 +1200 Bruce Griffiths wrote: > Steve Rooke wrote: > > 2009/8/17 Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz>: > > > >> iovane@inwind.it wrote: > >> > >>> Please, how do time-nuts measure phase noise? What may be a minimal setup whit recording capability? > >>> Thanks, > >>> Antonio I8IOV > >>> > >>> > >> snip > 1) Use 3 sources, S1, S2 and X. > > 2) Phase lock S1 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer > using a low bandwidth PLL. > > 3) Phase lock S2 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer > using a low bandwidth PLL. > > Then for frequencies outside the PLL bandwidth the crosspower spectrum > of the 2 mixer outputs should be predominantly due to the phase noise X. > > In practice its best if the phase noise of the 2 standards S1, S2 isn't > significantly worse than that of X. > > It is also desirable that both S1 and X and S2 and X be locked at their > respective mixers quadrature point (not necessarily the same as that for > zero dc output) > > Bruce Bruce, is this what actually time-nuts do? This is unpractical for me, as I have not much time for a circuit building project. Moreover, I would be satisfied even with the analysis at a single frequency, not necessarily the whole phase noise spectrum, and with relative but repeatable measurements. So, does it make any sense using a selective voltmeter, such as an HP 3586A or similar? Antonio I8IOV

BG

Bruce Griffiths

Mon, Aug 17, 2009 12:12 PM

iovane@inwind.it wrote:

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:18:58 +1200 Bruce Griffiths wrote:

Steve Rooke wrote:

2009/8/17 Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz:

iovane@inwind.it wrote:

Please, how do time-nuts measure phase noise? What may be a minimal setup whit recording capability?
Thanks,
Antonio I8IOV

snip

Use 3 sources, S1, S2 and X.
Phase lock S1 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer
using a low bandwidth PLL.
Phase lock S2 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer
using a low bandwidth PLL.

Then for frequencies outside the PLL bandwidth the crosspower spectrum
of the 2 mixer outputs should be predominantly due to the phase noise X.

In practice its best if the phase noise of the 2 standards S1, S2 isn't
significantly worse than that of X.

It is also desirable that both S1 and X and S2 and X be locked at their
respective mixers quadrature point (not necessarily the same as that for
zero dc output)

Bruce

Bruce,

is this what actually time-nuts do? This is unpractical for me, as I have not much
time for a circuit building project. Moreover, I would be satisfied even with the
analysis at a single frequency, not necessarily the whole phase noise spectrum,
and with relative but repeatable measurements.
So, does it make any sense using a selective voltmeter, such as an HP 3586A or
similar?

Antonio I8IOV

Some have commercial phase noise measurement systems like Symmetricoms
5115A, 5120A. 5125A.
Some have older HP phase noise measurement systems like the 3048A etc.
The rest of us have to build our own systems based around sound cards or
surplus spectrum analysers together with the necessary mixers, low noise
amplifiers etc.

Unless your sources are very noisy you wont be able to measure their
phase noise with just a selective voltmeter or even an RF spectrum analyser.
If you cant build it, then you need to acquire something like the HP3048
or the NIST phase noise measurement box currently on ebay.(Item:
260423038423)

Bruce

iovane@inwind.it wrote: > On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:18:58 +1200 Bruce Griffiths wrote: > > >> Steve Rooke wrote: >> >>> 2009/8/17 Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz>: >>> >>> >>>> iovane@inwind.it wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Please, how do time-nuts measure phase noise? What may be a minimal setup whit recording capability? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Antonio I8IOV >>>>> >>>>> > > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> snip >>>> > > >> 1) Use 3 sources, S1, S2 and X. >> >> 2) Phase lock S1 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer >> using a low bandwidth PLL. >> >> 3) Phase lock S2 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer >> using a low bandwidth PLL. >> >> Then for frequencies outside the PLL bandwidth the crosspower spectrum >> of the 2 mixer outputs should be predominantly due to the phase noise X. >> >> In practice its best if the phase noise of the 2 standards S1, S2 isn't >> significantly worse than that of X. >> >> It is also desirable that both S1 and X and S2 and X be locked at their >> respective mixers quadrature point (not necessarily the same as that for >> zero dc output) >> >> Bruce >> > > Bruce, > > is this what actually time-nuts do? This is unpractical for me, as I have not much > time for a circuit building project. Moreover, I would be satisfied even with the > analysis at a single frequency, not necessarily the whole phase noise spectrum, > and with relative but repeatable measurements. > So, does it make any sense using a selective voltmeter, such as an HP 3586A or > similar? > > Antonio I8IOV > > > Some have commercial phase noise measurement systems like Symmetricoms 5115A, 5120A. 5125A. Some have older HP phase noise measurement systems like the 3048A etc. The rest of us have to build our own systems based around sound cards or surplus spectrum analysers together with the necessary mixers, low noise amplifiers etc. Unless your sources are very noisy you wont be able to measure their phase noise with just a selective voltmeter or even an RF spectrum analyser. If you cant build it, then you need to acquire something like the HP3048 or the NIST phase noise measurement box currently on ebay.(Item: 260423038423) Bruce

W

WarrenS

Mon, Aug 17, 2009 1:49 PM

Antonio I8IOV

see wenzel link for nice clear write-up of one way to do it.
http://www.wenzel.com/documents/measuringphasenoise.htm

Because most Freq test show differences, The one thing you need is a good reference to compare to.
To get numbers without the detailed freq information of the phase noise when you don't have the spectrum analyzer,
you can use just an AC voltmeter and band pass filter to measure the noise at the Phase detector Amp output.
But you have to be careful and know what you're doing,
And if you already know what you are doing, you probable have all the extra time nut stuff.

ws

----- Original Message -----
From: iovane@inwind.it
To: "time-nuts" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise?

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:18:58 +1200 Bruce Griffiths wrote:

iovane@inwind.it wrote:

Please, how do time-nuts measure phase noise? What may be a minimal setup whit recording capability?
Thanks,
Antonio I8IOV

snip

Use 3 sources, S1, S2 and X.
Phase lock S1 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer
using a low bandwidth PLL.
Phase lock S2 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer
using a low bandwidth PLL.

Then for frequencies outside the PLL bandwidth the crosspower spectrum
of the 2 mixer outputs should be predominantly due to the phase noise X.

In practice its best if the phase noise of the 2 standards S1, S2 isn't
significantly worse than that of X.

It is also desirable that both S1 and X and S2 and X be locked at their
respective mixers quadrature point (not necessarily the same as that for
zero dc output)

Bruce

Bruce,

is this what actually time-nuts do? This is unpractical for me, as I have not much
time for a circuit building project. Moreover, I would be satisfied even with the
analysis at a single frequency, not necessarily the whole phase noise spectrum,
and with relative but repeatable measurements.
So, does it make any sense using a selective voltmeter, such as an HP 3586A or
similar?

Antonio I8IOV

Antonio I8IOV see wenzel link for nice clear write-up of one way to do it. http://www.wenzel.com/documents/measuringphasenoise.htm Because most Freq test show differences, The one thing you need is a good reference to compare to. To get numbers without the detailed freq information of the phase noise when you don't have the spectrum analyzer, you can use just an AC voltmeter and band pass filter to measure the noise at the Phase detector Amp output. But you have to be careful and know what you're doing, And if you already know what you are doing, you probable have all the extra time nut stuff. ws ********************* ----- Original Message ----- From: <iovane@inwind.it> To: "time-nuts" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:51 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise? On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:18:58 +1200 Bruce Griffiths wrote: > > > >> iovane@inwind.it wrote: > >> > >>> Please, how do time-nuts measure phase noise? What may be a minimal setup whit recording capability? > >>> Thanks, > >>> Antonio I8IOV > >>> > >>> > >> snip > 1) Use 3 sources, S1, S2 and X. > > 2) Phase lock S1 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer > using a low bandwidth PLL. > > 3) Phase lock S2 in quadrature to X using a diode double balanced mixer > using a low bandwidth PLL. > > Then for frequencies outside the PLL bandwidth the crosspower spectrum > of the 2 mixer outputs should be predominantly due to the phase noise X. > > In practice its best if the phase noise of the 2 standards S1, S2 isn't > significantly worse than that of X. > > It is also desirable that both S1 and X and S2 and X be locked at their > respective mixers quadrature point (not necessarily the same as that for > zero dc output) > > Bruce Bruce, is this what actually time-nuts do? This is unpractical for me, as I have not much time for a circuit building project. Moreover, I would be satisfied even with the analysis at a single frequency, not necessarily the whole phase noise spectrum, and with relative but repeatable measurements. So, does it make any sense using a selective voltmeter, such as an HP 3586A or similar? Antonio I8IOV

JL

J. L. Trantham

Mon, Aug 17, 2009 2:22 PM

Can anyone provide any information on the usefulness of the Phase Noise
Utility program (85671A) for the HP 8560 series Spectrum Analyzers?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:13 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise?

Some have commercial phase noise measurement systems like Symmetricoms
5115A, 5120A. 5125A. Some have older HP phase noise measurement systems like
the 3048A etc. The rest of us have to build our own systems based around
sound cards or surplus spectrum analysers together with the necessary
mixers, low noise amplifiers etc.

Unless your sources are very noisy you wont be able to measure their phase
noise with just a selective voltmeter or even an RF spectrum analyser. If
you cant build it, then you need to acquire something like the HP3048 or the
NIST phase noise measurement box currently on ebay.(Item:
260423038423)

Bruce

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Can anyone provide any information on the usefulness of the Phase Noise Utility program (85671A) for the HP 8560 series Spectrum Analyzers? Thanks in advance, Joe -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:13 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise? Some have commercial phase noise measurement systems like Symmetricoms 5115A, 5120A. 5125A. Some have older HP phase noise measurement systems like the 3048A etc. The rest of us have to build our own systems based around sound cards or surplus spectrum analysers together with the necessary mixers, low noise amplifiers etc. Unless your sources are very noisy you wont be able to measure their phase noise with just a selective voltmeter or even an RF spectrum analyser. If you cant build it, then you need to acquire something like the HP3048 or the NIST phase noise measurement box currently on ebay.(Item: 260423038423) Bruce _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

JM

John Miles

Mon, Aug 17, 2009 6:38 PM

The 85671A is fine, subject to the analyzer's LO noise floor. Some
analyzers are quieter than others, but in no case can you use a spectrum
analyzer by itself to characterize crystal oscillators or other high-quality
HF sources.

I have a much nicer host-based application that does the same thing as the
85671A, runs on many different analyzers, and yields much more readable
plots (see http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/pn.htm ). There are also some pointers
to app notes from Wenzel and HP on quadrature test sets in the last FAQ
entry at http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/faq.htm .

The executive summary is that quadrature test sets are not that complex.
You can save a lot of money by building your own, if you need to measure
sources beyond the reach of your spectrum analyzer alone.

That NIST box looks very nice but I have no idea what it does. If it's just
a quadrature PLL and collection of filters, that can be done for a lot less
than $4000. If it's got features like an ensemble of built-in reference
oscillators, then $4000 could be a bargain.

-- john, KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of J. L. Trantham
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:22 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise?

Can anyone provide any information on the usefulness of the Phase Noise
Utility program (85671A) for the HP 8560 series Spectrum Analyzers?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:13 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise?

Some have commercial phase noise measurement systems like Symmetricoms
5115A, 5120A. 5125A. Some have older HP phase noise measurement
systems like
the 3048A etc. The rest of us have to build our own systems based around
sound cards or surplus spectrum analysers together with the necessary
mixers, low noise amplifiers etc.

Unless your sources are very noisy you wont be able to measure their phase
noise with just a selective voltmeter or even an RF spectrum analyser. If
you cant build it, then you need to acquire something like the
HP3048 or the
NIST phase noise measurement box currently on ebay.(Item:
260423038423)

Bruce

The 85671A is fine, subject to the analyzer's LO noise floor. Some analyzers are quieter than others, but in no case can you use a spectrum analyzer by itself to characterize crystal oscillators or other high-quality HF sources. I have a much nicer host-based application that does the same thing as the 85671A, runs on many different analyzers, and yields much more readable plots (see http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/pn.htm ). There are also some pointers to app notes from Wenzel and HP on quadrature test sets in the last FAQ entry at http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/faq.htm . The executive summary is that quadrature test sets are not that complex. You can save a lot of money by building your own, if you need to measure sources beyond the reach of your spectrum analyzer alone. That NIST box looks very nice but I have no idea what it does. If it's just a quadrature PLL and collection of filters, that can be done for a lot less than $4000. If it's got features like an ensemble of built-in reference oscillators, then $4000 could be a bargain. -- john, KE5FX > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On > Behalf Of J. L. Trantham > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:22 AM > To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise? > > > Can anyone provide any information on the usefulness of the Phase Noise > Utility program (85671A) for the HP 8560 series Spectrum Analyzers? > > Thanks in advance, > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:13 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise? > > > Some have commercial phase noise measurement systems like Symmetricoms > 5115A, 5120A. 5125A. Some have older HP phase noise measurement > systems like > the 3048A etc. The rest of us have to build our own systems based around > sound cards or surplus spectrum analysers together with the necessary > mixers, low noise amplifiers etc. > > Unless your sources are very noisy you wont be able to measure their phase > noise with just a selective voltmeter or even an RF spectrum analyser. If > you cant build it, then you need to acquire something like the > HP3048 or the > NIST phase noise measurement box currently on ebay.(Item: > 260423038423) > > Bruce >

D@

Don @ True-Cal

Mon, Aug 17, 2009 6:49 PM

Joe,

I have the 8560E analyzer with the 85671A utility. I find the utility to be fairly slow in taking the numerous measurements and processing the results. The PN program from KE5FX EZGPIB does this in about 1/4 the time and has more post processing display options. You do need a computer with GPIB access to the analyzer but my opinion is this is a much preferred method unless portability is needed.

BTW, all of John's software in the EZGPIB kit is "first class". The 7470A emulator also works great on 8560 series printouts.

Regards...
Don

----- Original Message -----
From: J. L. Trantham
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise?

Can anyone provide any information on the usefulness of the Phase Noise
Utility program (85671A) for the HP 8560 series Spectrum Analyzers?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:13 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise?

Some have commercial phase noise measurement systems like Symmetricoms
5115A, 5120A. 5125A. Some have older HP phase noise measurement systems like
the 3048A etc. The rest of us have to build our own systems based around
sound cards or surplus spectrum analysers together with the necessary
mixers, low noise amplifiers etc.

Unless your sources are very noisy you wont be able to measure their phase
noise with just a selective voltmeter or even an RF spectrum analyser. If
you cant build it, then you need to acquire something like the HP3048 or the
NIST phase noise measurement box currently on ebay.(Item:
260423038423)

Bruce

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Joe, I have the 8560E analyzer with the 85671A utility. I find the utility to be fairly slow in taking the numerous measurements and processing the results. The PN program from KE5FX EZGPIB does this in about 1/4 the time and has more post processing display options. You do need a computer with GPIB access to the analyzer but my opinion is this is a much preferred method unless portability is needed. BTW, all of John's software in the EZGPIB kit is "first class". The 7470A emulator also works great on 8560 series printouts. Regards... Don ----- Original Message ----- From: J. L. Trantham To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise? Can anyone provide any information on the usefulness of the Phase Noise Utility program (85671A) for the HP 8560 series Spectrum Analyzers? Thanks in advance, Joe -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:13 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise? Some have commercial phase noise measurement systems like Symmetricoms 5115A, 5120A. 5125A. Some have older HP phase noise measurement systems like the 3048A etc. The rest of us have to build our own systems based around sound cards or surplus spectrum analysers together with the necessary mixers, low noise amplifiers etc. Unless your sources are very noisy you wont be able to measure their phase noise with just a selective voltmeter or even an RF spectrum analyser. If you cant build it, then you need to acquire something like the HP3048 or the NIST phase noise measurement box currently on ebay.(Item: 260423038423) Bruce _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

JM

John Miles

Mon, Aug 17, 2009 7:39 PM

Joe,

I have the 8560E analyzer with the 85671A utility. I find the
utility to be fairly slow in taking the numerous measurements and
processing the results. The PN program from KE5FX EZGPIB does
this in about 1/4 the time and has more post processing display
options. You do need a computer with GPIB access to the analyzer
but my opinion is this is a much preferred method unless
portability is needed.

BTW, all of John's software in the EZGPIB kit is "first class".
The 7470A emulator also works great on 8560 series printouts.

Thanks for the good words, Don... note, however, that Ulrich may justly take
exception to his EZGPIB program being conflated with a collection of ad-hoc
utilities and hacks whose motto is "Every error is fatal." :)

-- john, KE5FX

> > Joe, > > I have the 8560E analyzer with the 85671A utility. I find the > utility to be fairly slow in taking the numerous measurements and > processing the results. The PN program from KE5FX EZGPIB does > this in about 1/4 the time and has more post processing display > options. You do need a computer with GPIB access to the analyzer > but my opinion is this is a much preferred method unless > portability is needed. > > BTW, all of John's software in the EZGPIB kit is "first class". > The 7470A emulator also works great on 8560 series printouts. Thanks for the good words, Don... note, however, that Ulrich may justly take exception to his EZGPIB program being conflated with a collection of ad-hoc utilities and hacks whose motto is "Every error is fatal." :) -- john, KE5FX

D@

Don @ True-Cal

Mon, Aug 17, 2009 7:57 PM

Uh-Oh, yes I mixed up John's "Tool Kit" name with Ulrich's software. Sorry to both. I now see a clear disadvantage to my installing both into the same program files directory.

Regards...
Don

----- Original Message -----
From: John Miles
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise?

Joe,

I have the 8560E analyzer with the 85671A utility. I find the
utility to be fairly slow in taking the numerous measurements and
processing the results. The PN program from KE5FX EZGPIB does
this in about 1/4 the time and has more post processing display
options. You do need a computer with GPIB access to the analyzer
but my opinion is this is a much preferred method unless
portability is needed.

BTW, all of John's software in the EZGPIB kit is "first class".
The 7470A emulator also works great on 8560 series printouts.

Thanks for the good words, Don... note, however, that Ulrich may justly take
exception to his EZGPIB program being conflated with a collection of ad-hoc
utilities and hacks whose motto is "Every error is fatal." :)

-- john, KE5FX

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Uh-Oh, yes I mixed up John's "Tool Kit" name with Ulrich's software. Sorry to both. I now see a clear disadvantage to my installing both into the same program files directory. Regards... Don ----- Original Message ----- From: John Miles To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise? > > Joe, > > I have the 8560E analyzer with the 85671A utility. I find the > utility to be fairly slow in taking the numerous measurements and > processing the results. The PN program from KE5FX EZGPIB does > this in about 1/4 the time and has more post processing display > options. You do need a computer with GPIB access to the analyzer > but my opinion is this is a much preferred method unless > portability is needed. > > BTW, all of John's software in the EZGPIB kit is "first class". > The 7470A emulator also works great on 8560 series printouts. Thanks for the good words, Don... note, however, that Ulrich may justly take exception to his EZGPIB program being conflated with a collection of ad-hoc utilities and hacks whose motto is "Every error is fatal." :) -- john, KE5FX _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

R

Rex

Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:34 AM

John Miles wrote:

That NIST box looks very nice but I have no idea what it does. If it's just
a quadrature PLL and collection of filters, that can be done for a lot less
than $4000. If it's got features like an ensemble of built-in reference
oscillators, then $4000 could be a bargain.

-- john, KE5FX

I thought about making a $500 offer, but I guess that would just be
insulting to the seller and there's already one offer. (one of us?) It
would be over $10 per button. I got my 5370A for less than $4 per
button/knob/switch with shipping so the $500 is in my normal range.

The connectors on the front look a bit odd, but may be sma with
terminators. The back looks a bit scary with a mil spec connector and
other large-looking connectors. What's all that for? And would I need
another $500 to connect to it?

Just thinking out loud from my bidding tendencies. The do-it-yourself
approach sounds better. It's probably cheaper than my bid idea, and if
not, it tends to grow in smallish cost increments as you figure out all
the pieces you actually need.

John Miles wrote: > That NIST box looks very nice but I have no idea what it does. If it's just > a quadrature PLL and collection of filters, that can be done for a lot less > than $4000. If it's got features like an ensemble of built-in reference > oscillators, then $4000 could be a bargain. > > -- john, KE5FX > > I thought about making a $500 offer, but I guess that would just be insulting to the seller and there's already one offer. (one of us?) It would be over $10 per button. I got my 5370A for less than $4 per button/knob/switch with shipping so the $500 is in my normal range. The connectors on the front look a bit odd, but may be sma with terminators. The back looks a bit scary with a mil spec connector and other large-looking connectors. What's all that for? And would I need another $500 to connect to it? Just thinking out loud from my bidding tendencies. The do-it-yourself approach sounds better. It's probably cheaper than my bid idea, and if not, it tends to grow in smallish cost increments as you figure out all the pieces you actually need.

time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] How do time-nuts measure phase noise?