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View all threadsInetum company (Spain) technical support: Ettus USRP X440 & USRP X410 SDRs
Dear Mr/Mrs,
Please let me to introduce myself.
My name is Pablo and I am RF engineer for INETUM company (Madrid, Spain).
We are designing a wideband RF receiver and we have found your USRP X440 and X410 SDRs at your website.
Our thinking is that they would be suitable for our system.
On the other hand, we have several technical questions that we would like to ask you.
Regarding X440, ETTUS USRP X440 (8 TX AND 8 RX, 1.6 GHZ BW, 30 MHZ TO 4 GHZ SDR, GPSDO):
- If each channel has a bandwidth up 1.6GHz, why the total instantaneous bandwidth is 3.2GHz if it has 8 channels (1.6GHz*8channels > 3.2GHz)?
- Regarding "IF-Bandwidth combination limitations apply due to Nyquist zones and gaps",
* If we tune CH1 at 830MHz, are we going to be able to detect all the spectrum from 30-1630MHz?
* If we tune CH2 at 2430MHz, are we going to be able to detect all the spectrum from 1630-3230MHz?
* If we tune CH3 at 4000MHz, are we going to be able to detect all the spectrum from 3230-4000MHz? - Which the real maximum channel BW?
- Is it possible to decrease the minimum frequency down to 20MHz?
- Is it possible to increase the maximum frequency up to 6GHz?
- Could you provide the USRP X440 datasheet to see their RF/Digital performance parameters?
Regarding X410, ETTUS USRP X410 (4 TX/RX Channels, 400 MHz BW, Zynq US+ RFSoC ZU28DR)
- Is it possible to configure RX0 as an extra receiver channel, so instead of having 4 receiving channels [RF0 (RX1), RF1 (RX1)] & [RF0 (RX1), RF1 (RX1)] (Fig 1), we could have 8 receiving channels (Fig 2)?
- If previous question is not possible, do you have in your roadmap to develop an X410 version with 8 channels?
[cid:image001.png@01DA027F.AEF9F590]
Fig 1.
[cid:image002.png@01DA0280.13934920]
Fig 2.
Thank you very much in advanced.
Looking forward to hearing your reply.
Best,
Inetum
Pablo Micó Soler
RF Engineer
Seguridad Electrónica y Defensa | División de Ingeniería y Analytics
Electronic Security & Defence | Engineering & Analytics Division
+34 695645619 (Ext.)
Calle María de Portugal 9 - 11 (Edificio 1)
28050 Madrid, España
pablo.mico@inetum.commailto:pablo.mico@inetum.com
inetum.comhttps://inetum.world/es
Facebook / Twitterhttps://twitter.com/inetum_world / LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/company/inetum / Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/inetum_world/ / YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuIIEM1MyZ_K6IZg2E2KYtA
Hello,
Regarding X440;
- If you want to use instantaneous 1.6 GHz bandwidth, then you can use
only 2 channels. If you want to use 8 channels, you need to lower the
bandwidth to 400 MHz. Therefore; total bandwidth cannot be larger than 3.2
GHz. - Since they use the direct sampling capability of ZU28, Nyquist rates
apply depending on sampling frequency. Therefore; 1630 - 3230 may not be
possible. But I am not sure about this. - Maximum instantaneous bandwidth for a channel you can get is 1.6 GHz.
But as I said, you can only use 2 channels in this configuration.
4 -5. I don't think you can do that. If you want to reach those
frequencies, maybe you can consider buying an RF frontend.
https://www.ni.com/docs/en-US/bundle/ettus-usrp-x440-specs/page/specs.html
7. It is not possible. You should choose TX/RX0 or RX1 for each channel.
But you can switch the receiver channel between them during runtime.
8. X440 is already an 8 channel version of X410 with some limitations.
Mico-Soler Pablo via USRP-users usrp-users@lists.ettus.com, 19 Eki 2023
Per, 13:04 tarihinde şunu yazdı:
Dear Mr/Mrs,
Please let me to introduce myself.
My name is Pablo and I am RF engineer for INETUM company (Madrid, Spain).
We are designing a wideband RF receiver and we have found your USRP X440
and X410 SDRs at your website.
Our thinking is that they would be suitable for our system.
On the other hand, we have several technical questions that we would like
to ask you.
Regarding X440, ETTUS USRP X440 (8 TX AND 8 RX, 1.6 GHZ BW, 30 MHZ TO 4
GHZ SDR, GPSDO):
1. If each channel has a bandwidth up 1.6GHz, why the total
instantaneous bandwidth is 3.2GHz if it has 8 channels (1.6GHz*8channels >
3.2GHz)?
2. Regarding “*IF-Bandwidth combination limitations apply due to
Nyquist zones and gaps”*,
1. If we tune CH1 at 830MHz, are we going to be able to detect all
the spectrum from 30-1630MHz?
2. If we tune CH2 at 2430MHz, are we going to be able to detect all
the spectrum from 1630-3230MHz?
3. If we tune CH3 at 4000MHz, are we going to be able to detect all
the spectrum from 3230-4000MHz?
3. Which the real maximum channel BW?
4. Is it possible to decrease the minimum frequency down to 20MHz?
5. Is it possible to increase the maximum frequency up to 6GHz?
6. Could you provide the USRP X440 datasheet to see their RF/Digital
performance parameters?
Regarding X410, ETTUS USRP X410 (4 TX/RX Channels, 400 MHz BW, Zynq US+
RFSoC ZU28DR)
1. Is it possible to configure RX0 as an extra receiver channel, so
instead of having 4 receiving channels [RF0 (RX1), RF1 (RX1)] & [RF0
(RX1), RF1 (RX1)] (Fig 1), we could have 8 receiving channels (Fig 2)?
2. If previous question is not possible, do you have in your roadmap
to develop an X410 version with 8 channels?
Fig 1.
Fig 2. Thank you very much in advanced. Looking forward to hearing your
reply. Best,
*Inetum *
Pablo Micó Soler
RF Engineer
Seguridad Electrónica y Defensa | División de Ingeniería y Analytics
Electronic Security & Defence | Engineering & Analytics Division
+34 695645619 (Ext.)
Calle María de Portugal 9 – 11 (Edificio 1)
28050 Madrid, España
pablo.mico@inetum.com pablo.mico@inetum.com
inetum.com https://inetum.world/es
Facebook / Twitter https://twitter.com/inetum_world / LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/company/inetum / Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/inetum_world/ / YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuIIEM1MyZ_K6IZg2E2KYtA
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Dear Pablo,
welcome to the usrp-users community! Let's quickly answer your questions in-text:
On 19.10.23 12:03, Mico-Soler Pablo via USRP-users wrote:
Regarding X440, ETTUS USRP X440 (8 TX AND 8 RX, 1.6 GHZ BW, 30 MHZ TO 4 GHZ SDR, GPSDO):
- If each channel has a bandwidth up 1.6GHz, why the total instantaneous bandwidth is
3.2GHz if it has 8 channels (1.6GHz*8channels > 3.2GHz)?
The digital architecture just doesn't allow us to do that. The accumulated internal data
rate becomes challenging. (Just to illustrate: 1.6 GS/s · 8 = 12.8 GS/s, at 16 bit per I
and Q, so 32 bit per sample, that'd be 409.6 Gbit/s; you couldn't even get that into or
out of the device using the interfaces supplied)
- Regarding “/IF-Bandwidth combination limitations apply due to Nyquist zones and gaps”/,
- If we tune CH1 at 830MHz, are we going to be able to detect all the spectrum
from 30-1630MHz?
- If we tune CH1 at 830MHz, are we going to be able to detect all the spectrum
Yes, but beware that you need to supply your own front-end with the X440! Otherwise,
you'll observe 30–1630 MHz, superimposed with what's 1630–3230 MHz and up until the (not
extremely sharp) ca 4GHz cut off, what's in 3230–4830 MHz, too.
1. If we tune CH2 at 2430MHz, are we going to be able to detect all the spectrum
from 1630-3230MHz?
2. If we tune CH3 at 4000MHz, are we going to be able to detect all the spectrum
from 3230-4000MHz?
Yes! Remember, though, that you're seeing all these bands as aliased into baseband (see
above), so you need to sufficiently filter your analog signal, and that will have some
transition bandwidth.
- Which the real maximum channel BW?
1600 MHz
Is it possible to decrease the minimum frequency down to 20MHz?
We don't have measurements for that. The analog signal processing of what is fed into the
ADCs has a lower cutoff, and we qualified the product down to 30 MHz, not 20 MHz. That
doesn't mean you won't see what's at 20 MHz, but that we can't make any guarantees about that.
Also, broadband matching is hard, so I'd confer with whatever team supplies that input on
how far down they really need to go.
- Is it possible to increase the maximum frequency up to 6GHz?
Same answer as above.
Could you provide the USRP X440 datasheet to see their RF/Digital performance parameters?
Regarding X410, ETTUS USRP X410 (4 TX/RX Channels, 400 MHz BW, Zynq US+ RFSoC ZU28DR)
- Is it possible to configure RX0 as an extra receiver channel, so instead of having 4
receiving channels [RF0 (RX1), RF1 (RX1)] & [RF0 (RX1), RF1 (RX1)] (Fig 1), we could
have 8 receiving channels (Fig 2)?
Not really, no. https://files.ettus.com/manual/page_zbx.html Not enough ADCs!
If previous question is not possible, do you have in your roadmap to develop an X410
version with 8 channels?
I'll have to pass on that, as product strategy isn't what I'm involved with. You'd
probably be better served with 2× X410, from a computational point of view, probably.
Best regards,
Marcus
Dear Marcus,
Thank you very much for the information.
Everything is clear now.
Best,
Pablo
De: Marcus Müller marcus.mueller@ettus.com
Enviado el: jueves, 19 de octubre de 2023 14:55
Para: usrp-users@lists.ettus.com; Mico-Soler Pablo pablo.mico@inetum.com
Asunto: Re: [USRP-users] Inetum company (Spain) technical support: Ettus USRP X440 & USRP X410 SDRs
No suele recibir correos electrónicos de marcus.mueller@ettus.commailto:marcus.mueller@ettus.com. Por qué esto es importantehttps://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification
Dear Pablo,
welcome to the usrp-users community! Let's quickly answer your questions in-text:
On 19.10.23 12:03, Mico-Soler Pablo via USRP-users wrote:
Regarding X440, ETTUS USRP X440 (8 TX AND 8 RX, 1.6 GHZ BW, 30 MHZ TO 4 GHZ SDR, GPSDO):
- If each channel has a bandwidth up 1.6GHz, why the total instantaneous bandwidth is 3.2GHz if it has 8 channels (1.6GHz*8channels > 3.2GHz)?
The digital architecture just doesn't allow us to do that. The accumulated internal data rate becomes challenging. (Just to illustrate: 1.6 GS/s · 8 = 12.8 GS/s, at 16 bit per I and Q, so 32 bit per sample, that'd be 409.6 Gbit/s; you couldn't even get that into or out of the device using the interfaces supplied)
- Regarding "IF-Bandwidth combination limitations apply due to Nyquist zones and gaps",
* If we tune CH1 at 830MHz, are we going to be able to detect all the spectrum from 30-1630MHz?
Yes, but beware that you need to supply your own front-end with the X440! Otherwise, you'll observe 30-1630 MHz, superimposed with what's 1630-3230 MHz and up until the (not extremely sharp) ca 4GHz cut off, what's in 3230-4830 MHz, too.
* If we tune CH2 at 2430MHz, are we going to be able to detect all the spectrum from 1630-3230MHz?
* If we tune CH3 at 4000MHz, are we going to be able to detect all the spectrum from 3230-4000MHz?
Yes! Remember, though, that you're seeing all these bands as aliased into baseband (see above), so you need to sufficiently filter your analog signal, and that will have some transition bandwidth.
- Which the real maximum channel BW?
1600 MHz
Is it possible to decrease the minimum frequency down to 20MHz?
We don't have measurements for that. The analog signal processing of what is fed into the ADCs has a lower cutoff, and we qualified the product down to 30 MHz, not 20 MHz. That doesn't mean you won't see what's at 20 MHz, but that we can't make any guarantees about that.
Also, broadband matching is hard, so I'd confer with whatever team supplies that input on how far down they really need to go.
- Is it possible to increase the maximum frequency up to 6GHz?
Same answer as above.
Could you provide the USRP X440 datasheet to see their RF/Digital performance parameters?
https://www.ni.com/docs/de-DE/bundle/ettus-usrp-x440-specs/page/specs.html
Regarding X410, ETTUS USRP X410 (4 TX/RX Channels, 400 MHz BW, Zynq US+ RFSoC ZU28DR)
- Is it possible to configure RX0 as an extra receiver channel, so instead of having 4 receiving channels [RF0 (RX1), RF1 (RX1)] & [RF0 (RX1), RF1 (RX1)] (Fig 1), we could have 8 receiving channels (Fig 2)?
Not really, no. https://files.ettus.com/manual/page_zbx.html Not enough ADCs!
If previous question is not possible, do you have in your roadmap to develop an X410 version with 8 channels?
I'll have to pass on that, as product strategy isn't what I'm involved with. You'd probably be better served with 2× X410, from a computational point of view, probably.
Best regards,
Marcus