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Re: Integrated Marine Electronics

GR
George Remington
Fri, Dec 24, 2004 9:05 PM

I think the answer to this question is not as simple as we'd like. A couple of
points.
Space- Not everyone has enough console space for all the readouts needed for
non-integrated electronics.
Concentration - Non-integrated electronics require looking more than one
place, but you have to spend less time adjusting controls.

Reliability- Can you fix the system, including the software for integrating
the hardware, when things go wrong? If not, stand- alone gear means less lost
capability till you can make port for repairs, and a lot less hassle finding a
repairman when you go looking.
Cross-ties - If using stand-alone gear and attempting an integration, (eg. -
GPS fed to Radar, Autopilot, DSC VHF, and chart mapper), don't expect life to
be easy. It requires both hardware cables and software in the form of
programming, usually built into the gear, but you have to set it up, and the
data is not easy to come by. If you use an integrated system, at least you get
factory assistance in getting it running.

Cost- I've found the stand alone gear is actually less expensive than an
integrated system. That's my boat, not necessarily yours. Check before you
make a decision.
Summary - Nobody ever said it was easy!
George

I think the answer to this question is not as simple as we'd like. A couple of points. Space- Not everyone has enough console space for all the readouts needed for non-integrated electronics. Concentration - Non-integrated electronics require looking more than one place, but you have to spend less time adjusting controls. Reliability- Can you fix the system, including the software for integrating the hardware, when things go wrong? If not, stand- alone gear means less lost capability till you can make port for repairs, and a lot less hassle finding a repairman when you go looking. Cross-ties - If using stand-alone gear and attempting an integration, (eg. - GPS fed to Radar, Autopilot, DSC VHF, and chart mapper), don't expect life to be easy. It requires both hardware cables and software in the form of programming, usually built into the gear, but you have to set it up, and the data is not easy to come by. If you use an integrated system, at least you get factory assistance in getting it running. Cost- I've found the stand alone gear is actually less expensive than an integrated system. That's my boat, not necessarily yours. Check before you make a decision. Summary - Nobody ever said it was easy! George
A
Albin43SDtr
Sat, Dec 25, 2004 5:13 PM

'Lo  All,

I like some integrated electronics, but prefer my own mix. That is to say,
I like the GPS chartplotter to tell the radar and depthsounder the
lat-long, and the depthsounder to report depths to the radar and
chartplotter. That way, if the displays die, or are not visible under the
prevailing conditions, I still have the basic information readily
available, provided, of course, that the whole instrument (GPS or
depthsounder) did not die. I do not have a computer nav system, but the
same would apply to it as to the chartplotter.

The radar is sort of integrated within itself, in that the 4kw radome feeds
a 10" CRT display, which, in turn, feeds the upper helm LCD display. This
gives the little upper helm display all of the capabilities built into the
larger CRT display, such as MARPA, etc., and repeats the GPS and
depthsounder data.

The Celestial, being a late '80s boat, has all non-integrated analog
instrumentation for all engine instruments, etc., so integration is not
practical except for the electronics. IF I were to ever get a new boat (no
chance), I would probably look at an integrated engine status reporting
system, as long as the display and integrating black boxes could be changed
out in about 5 minutes. Of course, some new engines already have integrated
displays - for each engine, but there is nothing that would preclude
integrating all engine data into one display.

Maintainability of (integrated) systems has long been a sore spot with me.
In a former life, I was an aircraft maintenance officer and worked in
Research and Development in various capacities, after having worked on the
flightline on some fighter aircraft that were maintenance nightmares by
design. My pet peeve was designers who seemed to sadistically insist on
burying the most failure-prone boxes in inaccessible places on the
aircraft, so that operable boxes/systems had to be removed to get to the
failed ones. When I finally got to a position where I could ultimately
dictate how the design was laid out, maintainability became one of  the
most important factors. These were modification programs on existing
aircraft. Contractors would design the modification, and present it to us
to evaluate - which was when I could drive maintainability. On one
aircraft, the Mean Time to Repair on some boxes went from about 6 hours to
about 5 minutes, without degrading the maintainability of other
boxes/systems. It just depends upon how much effort is put into making the
system maintainable. Integrated systems on boats should have the same
up-front thinking about how the system can be trouble shot and fixed
without having do disassemble half the boat to get to the failed parts or
even just to check them. Maintainability relates directly to the ultimate
cost of ownership - in terms of monetary cost, usability and, possibly most
importantly - user satisfaction. If something doesn't work, and is hard to
fix/keep operational, it ultimately will be neglected/be inoperable and the
user will say the system is a piece of junk. Been there, done that.

Just my thoughts on a cold, rainy Christmas Day.......

Take care, be safe and keep warm.

Wayne
M/V Celestial
Albin43 Sundeck

'Lo All, I like some integrated electronics, but prefer my own mix. That is to say, I like the GPS chartplotter to tell the radar and depthsounder the lat-long, and the depthsounder to report depths to the radar and chartplotter. That way, if the displays die, or are not visible under the prevailing conditions, I still have the basic information readily available, provided, of course, that the whole instrument (GPS or depthsounder) did not die. I do not have a computer nav system, but the same would apply to it as to the chartplotter. The radar is sort of integrated within itself, in that the 4kw radome feeds a 10" CRT display, which, in turn, feeds the upper helm LCD display. This gives the little upper helm display all of the capabilities built into the larger CRT display, such as MARPA, etc., and repeats the GPS and depthsounder data. The Celestial, being a late '80s boat, has all non-integrated analog instrumentation for all engine instruments, etc., so integration is not practical except for the electronics. IF I were to ever get a new boat (no chance), I would probably look at an integrated engine status reporting system, as long as the display and integrating black boxes could be changed out in about 5 minutes. Of course, some new engines already have integrated displays - for each engine, but there is nothing that would preclude integrating all engine data into one display. Maintainability of (integrated) systems has long been a sore spot with me. In a former life, I was an aircraft maintenance officer and worked in Research and Development in various capacities, after having worked on the flightline on some fighter aircraft that were maintenance nightmares by design. My pet peeve was designers who seemed to sadistically insist on burying the most failure-prone boxes in inaccessible places on the aircraft, so that operable boxes/systems had to be removed to get to the failed ones. When I finally got to a position where I could ultimately dictate how the design was laid out, maintainability became one of the most important factors. These were modification programs on existing aircraft. Contractors would design the modification, and present it to us to evaluate - which was when I could drive maintainability. On one aircraft, the Mean Time to Repair on some boxes went from about 6 hours to about 5 minutes, without degrading the maintainability of other boxes/systems. It just depends upon how much effort is put into making the system maintainable. Integrated systems on boats should have the same up-front thinking about how the system can be trouble shot and fixed without having do disassemble half the boat to get to the failed parts or even just to check them. Maintainability relates directly to the ultimate cost of ownership - in terms of monetary cost, usability and, possibly most importantly - user satisfaction. If something doesn't work, and is hard to fix/keep operational, it ultimately will be neglected/be inoperable and the user will say the system is a piece of junk. Been there, done that. Just my thoughts on a cold, rainy Christmas Day....... Take care, be safe and keep warm. Wayne M/V Celestial Albin43 Sundeck