30 amp service vs. 50 amp service
SNIP:"I you have a 30/50 splitter that plugs into a 50 amp
receptacle then you are utilizing a 50 amp service, with a pair of 50 amp
breakers tied together. after having used a 50A cable for awhile, I much
prefer a splitter and two thirties tied into a 50 amp service.That 50 amp
cord is like an python, and expensive !" Bob England
I don't quite get what you are saying here Bob. If I take two 30A's the first
question is whether they are on the same phase or not- that affects what I can
pull.
Secondly where do the two 50A breakers you mention come from? The shore has two
30A.
Finally these Y's cost close to $400 new - although some are a lot cheaper at
consignment stores - curious whey are so many around second hand- people tried
them and had problems maybe with phase matching? Given that price a 50A python
may be cheaper!
Ron Barr
Lady Brookhaven Hatteras LRC 42
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 8:19:23 PM, ron wrote:
rb> SNIP:"I you have a 30/50 splitter that plugs into a 50 amp
rb> receptacle then you are utilizing a 50 amp service, with a pair of 50 amp
rb> breakers tied together. after having used a 50A cable for awhile, I much
rb> prefer a splitter and two thirties tied into a 50 amp service.That 50 amp
rb> cord is like an python, and expensive !" Bob England
rb> I don't quite get what you are saying here Bob. If I take two 30A's the first
rb> question is whether they are on the same phase or not- that affects what I can
rb> pull.
rb> Secondly where do the two 50A breakers you mention come from? The shore has two
rb> 30A.
Reading between and across the lines in the various posts, it seems that some people are discussing a 50 amp cord from the boat, with a Y cord on the shore end to plug into two 30 amp/120V outlets, while others are thinking of a 50 amp/240V outlet on the dock, with a Y cord permitting two 30 amp 120V cables to 30 amp inlets on the boat.
The first arrangement will have 30 amp breakers on the dock, and a two-pole 50 amp breaker on the boat, while the second will have the 50 amp two-pole breaker on the dock, and 30 amp breakers on the boat.
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Lien Hwa 28 (AKA Polaris 30) "Sea Spray"
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca
Peter,
That's clear but you left one answer out. If you are connected to two 30 amp
outlets on two different legs on the dock with a "Y" adapter to a 50 amp
cable to a 50 amp inlet on the boat, how many amps are available to the boat
panel at 240V and how many amps are available at 110V?
Thank you,
Ron Rogers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Bennett" peterbb4@interchange.ubc.ca
|
| Reading between and across the lines in the various posts, it seems that
some people are discussing a 50 amp cord from the boat, with a Y cord on the
shore end to plug into two 30 amp/120V outlets, while others are thinking of
a 50 amp/240V outlet on the dock, with a Y cord permitting two 30 amp 120V
cables to 30 amp inlets on the boat.
|
| The first arrangement will have 30 amp breakers on the dock, and a
two-pole 50 amp breaker on the boat, while the second will have the 50 amp
two-pole breaker on the dock, and 30 amp breakers on the boat
Sunday, July 9, 2006, 9:06:42 PM, Ron wrote:
RR> Peter,
RR> That's clear but you left one answer out. If you are connected to two 30 amp
RR> outlets on two different legs on the dock with a "Y" adapter to a 50 amp
RR> cable to a 50 amp inlet on the boat, how many amps are available to the boat
RR> panel at 240V and how many amps are available at 110V?
RR> Thank you,
RR> Ron Rogers
You would have 30 amps at 240V, or 2 x 30 amp at 120V
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Lien Hwa 28 (AKA Polaris 30) "Sea Spray"
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca
This thread, as the filter thread did before, threatens to spin out of
control. There are multiple ways to skin a cat and here's the skin of my
electrical cat.
When I retrofitted my boat, I designed the electrical system to basically
run on 240 VAC because I had some heavy loads best served by the high
voltage/low current service. I stripped out the old wires ad replaced
everything from the shore panel to each jbox and outlet. Spent just over 3
boat units at Best Boat Wire and countless hours of labor. At full rated
load, I consume 12,000 watts of power, 240 VAC, shore power or genset.
It's dead dirt simple. Plug the python into 240 VAC/50a shore power and it
runs through a 50a, 3 leg breaker, 1' inside the boat and and from there,
22' of AWG 6, 4 conductor, to the 240 v main distribution panel I had built
for me by Paneltronics of FLL. My "sure enough" 240v loads are my SCUBA
compressor, watermaker, washer/dryer and Home Depot 30 gal hot water heater.
They CANNOT work without 240v, either shore power or genset, but with power
management, they can work off 240/30.
My 4 Flagship Marine air-conditioners and two raw water pumps are 120v and
are balanced across L1 and L2. Most incidental 120 loads- reefer, freezer,
microwave, etc., are powered through my Victron 2500 inverter charger on L1.
At low power levels, I see a slight load imbalance, but as I approach the
full design load of 12 KW, there's never over a couple volts difference
between L1 and L2. A clamp-on ammeter shows only trace current on the
neutral.
In my misspent youth, I spent a couple summers wiring houses and an old
electrician once told me, that if a house had a well designed electrical
system, THEORETICALLY, the neutral would carry little, if any load. You
could, once again in theory, snip the neutral and all the 120 loads would
find themselves in series across the 240. The 1500 watt waffle iron on L1
would be in series with the 1500 watt coffee maker on L2. The 240 v electric
hot water heater would be a wash.
I can run my boat with anything from 240/50 shore power to a 15a outlet
shared with a Coke machine on a dock in Belize. Question of power management
and pigtails. Without 240 I have to nurse my hot water, SCUBA bottles, fresh
water and laundry or run the genset. If there's 240/30 available, I have a
homebrew splitter pigtail that will feed it to the python. Everything works
but with power management. If I over reach, the 30 shore breaker(s) will
trip. Elegantly simple. I watch the incoming shore power voltage to see it
doesn't sag and adjust loads accordingly.
If the dock has only one leg of 120 but 2 30a outlets, I lose the 4 high
load items but everything elso works. If it has 1 30a plug, I have a cover
for one leg of my dumb splitter so's I don't accidentally electrifry myself.
If I have to share the 15a outlet with the coke machine in Belize, I can
plug the python into a 15a reducing pigtail and sleep with the aft stateroom
AC unit, reefer and freezer running.
Regards.
Larry
Cigano, 47' Prairie Sundeck
Lying Covington, LA
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron barr" rwhb@msn.com
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Cc: bob_england@hotmail.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 10:19 PM
Subject: T&T: 30 amp service vs. 50 amp service
SNIP:"I you have a 30/50 splitter that plugs into a 50 amp
receptacle then you are utilizing a 50 amp service, with a pair of 50 amp
breakers tied together. after having used a 50A cable for awhile, I much
prefer a splitter and two thirties tied into a 50 amp service.That 50 amp
cord is like an python, and expensive !" Bob England
I don't quite get what you are saying here Bob. If I take two 30A's the
first
question is whether they are on the same phase or not- that affects what I
can
pull.
Secondly where do the two 50A breakers you mention come from? The shore
has two
30A.
Finally these Y's cost close to $400 new - although some are a lot cheaper
at
consignment stores - curious whey are so many around second hand- people
tried
them and had problems maybe with phase matching? Given that price a 50A
python
may be cheaper!
Ron Barr
Lady Brookhaven Hatteras LRC 42
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Ron,
I understand that one has at 120V.... 60 amps - two 30 amp legs as opposed to a
single 30 amps but not as much as a 50A which gives a total of 100 A or 50 on
two legs of 120V.
By the way where is this Hubbell Y with the indicators available for less than
the Marinco?
Ron Barr
Lady Brookhaven Hatteras LRC 42
Presently lying Fort Ticonderoga Lake Champlain
Which goes to prove one can carry almost 17 ft up the Champlain Canal
since everything seems to be left on top of my fly bridge roof.
KB1LFX
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Rogers [mailto:rcrogers6@kennett.net]
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 11:07 PM
To: Peter Bennett; ron barr; trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: 30 amp service vs. 50 amp service
Peter,
That's clear but you left one answer out. If you are connected to two 30 amp
outlets on two different legs on the dock with a "Y" adapter to a 50 amp cable
to a 50 amp inlet on the boat, how many amps are available to the boat panel at
240V and how many amps are available at 110V?
Thank you,
Ron Rogers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Bennett" peterbb4@interchange.ubc.ca
|
| Reading between and across the lines in the various posts, it seems
| that
some people are discussing a 50 amp cord from the boat, with a Y cord on the
shore end to plug into two 30 amp/120V outlets, while others are thinking of a
50 amp/240V outlet on the dock, with a Y cord permitting two 30 amp 120V cables
to 30 amp inlets on the boat.
|
| The first arrangement will have 30 amp breakers on the dock, and a
two-pole 50 amp breaker on the boat, while the second will have the 50 amp
two-pole breaker on the dock, and 30 amp breakers on the boat
ron barr wrote:
Ron,
I understand that one has at 120V.... 60 amps - two 30 amp legs as opposed to a
single 30 amps but not as much as a 50A which gives a total of 100 A or 50 on
two legs of 120V.
By the way where is this Hubbell Y with the indicators available for less than
the Marinco?
Ron Barr
Lady Brookhaven Hatteras LRC 42
Presently lying Fort Ticonderoga Lake Champlain
Which goes to prove one can carry almost 17 ft up the Champlain Canal
since everything seems to be left on top of my fly bridge roof.
KB1LFX
Just bought a Charles reverse Smart Wye for 257.00 from marine.com. It
was about 20-30 bucks more than the Hubbell, but I've had Hubbel 30A
cordsets before and I'm not particularly fond of the way they mate up
with other cords. I believe the Charles products are pretty good
quality. The Marinco is $466 at Defender.
Oh, BTW on the whole shore power amps, just frame it in watts or KW,
volts x amps.
Easy.
steve sipe
settlement TOMORROW on the new (to us) boat!!!