Diesel starting fluid
I know the mantra, Never Ever use starting fluid in a diesel, which by
the way is ether usually as purchased in a can of "starting fluid". I
just read of a different way, Comments please.
Take off air filter, Spray in WD-40 (which a diesel can burn as fuel),
block air intake with palm of hand, use key to start. Theory is by
cutting down air flow into cylinders there is a vacuum and no air
pressure (resistance) which makes cylinders turn more easily, with WD-40
as accelerant. Starting fluid may theoretically damage cylinders, this
still concerns me re "runaway" engine. Thoughts???
Russ Davignon S/V ASCESNION
PS In case you thought it dreamed this up, it was in Denton Rickey
Moore's book - Gentlemen Don't Sail to Weather recently recommended by
the list. (A great read)
" Since you cannot do good to all, you are to pay special attention to
those who, by accidents of time, or place, or circumstance are brought
into closer connection with you." St. Augustine
You're going to get your hand sucked into the engine! Or at least a good
hickey. Cover it with something else... wood, towel, etc. Ever stick your
hand near the air intake of a diesel while it's running? A lot of air is
going through there! Careful!
Keith
How come abbreviated is such a long word?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Davignon, Russell" Russell.Davignon@hitchcock.org
Take off air filter, Spray in WD-40 (which a diesel can burn as fuel),
block air intake with palm of hand, use key to start.
On Behalf Of Davignon, Russell
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 11:20 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: T&T: Diesel starting fluid
I know the mantra, Never Ever use starting fluid in a diesel, snip>
Take off air filter, Spray in WD-40 (which a diesel can burn as fuel),
block air intake with palm of hand, use key to start. Snip>
By "never ever" I assume you won't use starter fluid if your boat is about
to go over Niagara Falls? :)
WD-40 has a secret formula, but is some kind of oil and solvent combo. Ether
is just a gas. The Diesel will burn almost anything flammable. You can also
use Pam. If I remember, the concern with ether is that it does not have any
lubrication, but used just to start the engine I'm not convinced it is bad,
may be someone has a good justification. Otherwise it's just dangerous
because it is highly flammable.
That brings us to holding your hand over the intake. Very bad idea. Diesels
suck very hard and WD-40 or whatever can backfire. If you squirt a lot in
there before it fires, the engine could suddenly start and go very fast for
a while.
I can't get my head around a partial vacuum reducing the drag. The vacuum
itself will cause as much drag as the compression, different side of the
same coin.
Finally, I would use a heat gun into the intake. Nice pre-heated air, let
the diesel provide its own fuel in a controlled manner. If it won't start
then you need to look at the fuel system.
David
Skooch
Worton Creek MD
David Stahl wrote:
I can't get my head around a partial vacuum reducing the drag. The vacuum
itself will cause as much drag as the compression, different side of the
same coin.
It follows the same logic as any other mechanical device that compresses
or moves water or air... more volume, more work, the converse is what
allows the engine or other device to operate more freely, it's got less
air to compress, ergo it's not doing as much work, so it spins faster. A
vacuum pump draws lower amperage the higher the vacuum. It's moving less
air, less work. Same as a centrifugal pump, it does less work as the
pressure increases. It's contrary to intuitive logic, because we
associate higher pressure with more work, but that only applies to
positive displacement equipment.
This oughta open a can of worms. <G>
Steve
Careful. Some diesels (most cummins for example) don't use glow plugs, but
rather, have a very strong heating element in the intake manifold to heat
the air charge going in. Ether or starting fluid or wd-40 or whatever will
then explode or catch fire in the INTAKE, not the cylinders. You can also
damage that (expensive) heating element.
CUAgain,
Daniel Meyer
Author. Electrician. Adventurer.
http://lifeisaroad.com/boat.html
I know the mantra, Never Ever use starting fluid in a diesel, which by
the way is ether usually as purchased in a can of "starting fluid". I
just read of a different way, Comments please.
Take off air filter, Spray in WD-40 (which a diesel can burn as fuel),
block air intake with palm of hand, use key to start. Theory is by
cutting down air flow into cylinders there is a vacuum and no air
pressure (resistance) which makes cylinders turn more easily, with WD-40
as accelerant. Starting fluid may theoretically damage cylinders, this
still concerns me re "runaway" engine. Thoughts???
Russ Davignon S/V ASCESNION
I'll probably take a flogging for my remarks, but its somewhat of an old
wives tale that starting fluid should never ever be used in a diesel engine
application. I have owned a trucking company for many years and we always
use some starting fluid to get the diesel rigs running in the winter. Some
of the newer diesel trucks even have a built-in ether injection system that
will meter some ether into the intake at the press of a button during engine
start.
The proper way to deal with an engine that is not lighting off is to "warm"
the glow plugs several times and then turn the ignition off. At that point,
apply a very light "whiff" of starting fluid at the intake with the IGNITION
TURNED OFF. Close everything back up and proceed with a normal start.
Some of the newer starting fluid products available in most automotive
stores even have "diesel safe" on the label. The brand we use exclusively
is "Gunk 'Thrust' Quick Starting Fluid for Gasoline and Diesel Engines." We
buy it by the case (red and white can) and always keep a can in each of our
rigs.
The whole key is to apply the starting fluid with the glow plugs turned off
and to only use a very quick burst of fluid.
In thousands and thousands of engine starts, we have never had any sort of
damage occur as a result of using some starting fluid.
Next time you find yourself at a truck stop, ask some truckers how they get
a finicky diesel started and you'll likely hear a universal answer of a
touch of starting fluid.
-Ryan
On Behalf Of Steve Sipe
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 12:28 PM
It follows the same logic as any other mechanical device that compresses
or moves water or air... more volume, more work, the converse is what
allows the engine or other device to operate more freely, it's got less
air to compress, ergo it's not doing as much work, so it spins faster.
Snip>
Reply:
See I learn something everyday on the ole T&T list. I didn't know this but I
did check, being a die in the wool skeptic, This is true.
David
Skooch Hatteras LRC 42
Worton Creek MD
David Stahl wrote:
On Behalf Of Steve Sipe
<snip>I didn't know this but I
did check, being a die in the wool skeptic, This is true.
David
Skooch Hatteras LRC 42
Worton Creek MD
Steve