Custom Wenzel OXCO with unusual output
I picked up a custom Wenzel 500-13248B quartz oscillator and upon measuring
it, I'm not sure if it is working as designed or what.
The RF Out is a raggedy 10MHz sine wave at 4.4Vpp, and a spectrum analyzer
shows peaks at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 MHz. There may be more but I'm
not sure how to acquire them.
There is nothing coming out of the second unmarked SMA.
Assuming this is not broken, what kind of oscillator is this, and what would
it be used for?
The other SMA is an external reference input. I have seen one of them on a
Miteq satellite upconverter.
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 6:31 PM Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
wrote:
I picked up a custom Wenzel 500-13248B quartz oscillator and upon measuring
it, I'm not sure if it is working as designed or what.
The RF Out is a raggedy 10MHz sine wave at 4.4Vpp, and a spectrum analyzer
shows peaks at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 MHz. There may be more but
I'm
not sure how to acquire them.
There is nothing coming out of the second unmarked SMA.
Assuming this is not broken, what kind of oscillator is this, and what
would
it be used for?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Can you better define "raggedly sine wave"? Perhaps a time-domain plot?
The harmonic series looks roughly like what I'd expect from a sawtooth,
definitely not a clean sine or square wave.
Steve Hendrix
On 2025-04-01 2:20 PM, Walt via time-nuts wrote:
I picked up a custom Wenzel 500-13248B quartz oscillator and upon measuring
it, I'm not sure if it is working as designed or what.
The RF Out is a raggedy 10MHz sine wave at 4.4Vpp, and a spectrum analyzer
shows peaks at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 MHz. There may be more but I'm
not sure how to acquire them.
Walt, try terminating it in 50 ohms. See if that helps.
Paul
WB8TSL
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 12:32 PM Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
wrote:
I picked up a custom Wenzel 500-13248B quartz oscillator and upon measuring
it, I'm not sure if it is working as designed or what.
The RF Out is a raggedy 10MHz sine wave at 4.4Vpp, and a spectrum analyzer
shows peaks at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 MHz. There may be more but
I'm
not sure how to acquire them.
There is nothing coming out of the second unmarked SMA.
Assuming this is not broken, what kind of oscillator is this, and what
would
it be used for?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
No, that didn’t change anything.
And speaking of termination, the output level I cited below (4.4 Vpp) was without a 50 ohm load.
The actual output level into 50 ohms is 2.8 Vpp.
From: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 11:36 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Walt walt@drizzle.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Custom Wenzel OXCO with unusual output
Walt, try terminating it in 50 ohms. See if that helps.
Paul
WB8TSL
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 12:32 PM Walt via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com > wrote:
I picked up a custom Wenzel 500-13248B quartz oscillator and upon measuring
it, I'm not sure if it is working as designed or what.
The RF Out is a raggedy 10MHz sine wave at 4.4Vpp, and a spectrum analyzer
shows peaks at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 MHz. There may be more but I'm
not sure how to acquire them.
There is nothing coming out of the second unmarked SMA.
Assuming this is not broken, what kind of oscillator is this, and what would
it be used for?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Attached is a time-domain plot, with a 50 ohm load. The waveform is 10 MHz,
2.88 Vpp.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hendrix, P.E. via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 10:28 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Steve Hendrix, P.E. SteveHx@HxEngineering.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Custom Wenzel OXCO with unusual output
Can you better define "raggedly sine wave"? Perhaps a time-domain plot?
The harmonic series looks roughly like what I'd expect from a sawtooth,
definitely not a clean sine or square wave.
Steve Hendrix
On 2025-04-01 2:20 PM, Walt via time-nuts wrote:
I picked up a custom Wenzel 500-13248B quartz oscillator and upon
measuring it, I'm not sure if it is working as designed or what.
The RF Out is a raggedy 10MHz sine wave at 4.4Vpp, and a spectrum
analyzer shows peaks at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 MHz. There may
be more but I'm not sure how to acquire them.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an
email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
The Wenzel in the picture you sent looks exactly like the one I have!
So what is this, and what is the function of the Ext Ref input, and the Status line?
As an aside, it draws 20 mA at startup and never varies from that, so I don't think it is a OXCO.
-----Original Message-----
From: Azelio Boriani via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 10:16 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Azelio Boriani azelio.boriani@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Custom Wenzel OXCO with unusual output
The other SMA is an external reference input. I have seen one of them on a Miteq satellite upconverter.
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 6:31 PM Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
wrote:
I picked up a custom Wenzel 500-13248B quartz oscillator and upon
measuring it, I'm not sure if it is working as designed or what.
The RF Out is a raggedy 10MHz sine wave at 4.4Vpp, and a spectrum
analyzer shows peaks at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 MHz. There may
be more but I'm not sure how to acquire them.
There is nothing coming out of the second unmarked SMA.
Assuming this is not broken, what kind of oscillator is this, and what
would it be used for?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send
an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Hi Paul,
Maybe I am missing something, but on your read-out I actually see that the 3rd measurement point is in reality the second OT. My first response would be: 1,3,4,5,6,7,8 together show a regular square wave like behaviour, with a fair amount non 50% dutycycle.
The worrisome thing is the close in element, which is and close to main mode and significant. Perhaps caused by a spurious mode (those are always above the main modes), but is all looks kind a fishy: the mixing of two modes normally does not happen, pullng does.
My secondary conclusion would be that maybe there is a lot of FM going on, from some source. Can you shoot detailed spectra around each mode?
Best regards,
Rob
From: Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 11:24 PM
To: 'paul swed' paulswedb@gmail.com; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Walt walt@drizzle.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Custom Wenzel OXCO with unusual output
No, that didn’t change anything.
And speaking of termination, the output level I cited below (4.4 Vpp) was without a 50 ohm load.
The actual output level into 50 ohms is 2.8 Vpp.
From: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 11:36 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Walt walt@drizzle.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Custom Wenzel OXCO with unusual output
Walt, try terminating it in 50 ohms. See if that helps.
Paul
WB8TSL
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 12:32 PM Walt via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com > wrote:
I picked up a custom Wenzel 500-13248B quartz oscillator and upon measuring
it, I'm not sure if it is working as designed or what.
The RF Out is a raggedy 10MHz sine wave at 4.4Vpp, and a spectrum analyzer
shows peaks at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 MHz. There may be more but I'm
not sure how to acquire them.
There is nothing coming out of the second unmarked SMA.
Assuming this is not broken, what kind of oscillator is this, and what would
it be used for?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Hi
Looking at the time plot, it looks like a pretty normal oscillator output.
Looking at the spectrum analyzer plot, there might be something in close. The harmonics
all easily meet a -30 dbc spec.
As noted in other posts. You really need something like a +/- 10 KHz span to check that part out.
Best bet: You have a TCXO or an XO inside the package. If it can not be tuned on frequency,
you have an OCXO with a dead heater.
Bob
On Apr 6, 2025, at 6:26 PM, Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
Attached is a time-domain plot, with a 50 ohm load. The waveform is 10 MHz,
2.88 Vpp.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hendrix, P.E. via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 10:28 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Steve Hendrix, P.E. SteveHx@HxEngineering.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Custom Wenzel OXCO with unusual output
Can you better define "raggedly sine wave"? Perhaps a time-domain plot?
The harmonic series looks roughly like what I'd expect from a sawtooth,
definitely not a clean sine or square wave.
Steve Hendrix
On 2025-04-01 2:20 PM, Walt via time-nuts wrote:
I picked up a custom Wenzel 500-13248B quartz oscillator and upon
measuring it, I'm not sure if it is working as designed or what.
The RF Out is a raggedy 10MHz sine wave at 4.4Vpp, and a spectrum
analyzer shows peaks at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 MHz. There may
be more but I'm not sure how to acquire them.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an
email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
<Wenzel-Output-Time-Domain.png>_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
If that is indeed an input, then the module is a "clean up loop" - we use them when you get a signal over a long run (100s of meters) of coax (or fiber) from some reference (a maser?). You want to regenerate it without close in phase noise (or broadband noise).
They essentially have nice quiet oscillator with good close in and ultimate noise floors that is phase locked to the external reference. They are also available to have different output and input frequencies (e.g. 10 MHz in, 50 or 100 MHz out).
On Sun, 6 Apr 2025 15:31:00 -0700, Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
The Wenzel in the picture you sent looks exactly like the one I have!
So what is this, and what is the function of the Ext Ref input, and the Status line?
As an aside, it draws 20 mA at startup and never varies from that, so I don't think it is a OXCO.
-----Original Message-----
From: Azelio Boriani via time-nuts
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 10:16 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Cc: Azelio Boriani
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Custom Wenzel OXCO with unusual output
The other SMA is an external reference input. I have seen one of them on a Miteq satellite upconverter.
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 6:31 PM Walt via time-nuts
wrote:
I picked up a custom Wenzel 500-13248B quartz oscillator and upon
measuring it, I'm not sure if it is working as designed or what.
The RF Out is a raggedy 10MHz sine wave at 4.4Vpp, and a spectrum
analyzer shows peaks at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 MHz. There may
be more but I'm not sure how to acquire them.
There is nothing coming out of the second unmarked SMA.
Assuming this is not broken, what kind of oscillator is this, and what
would it be used for?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send
an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com