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TWL: Re: Brine (With actual temperature measurementse: trawler-world-list V3 #131

H
hpollock@massmed.org
Tue, Nov 9, 1999 9:44 PM

Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 17:04:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Kruse plkruse@iu.net

Nope.  Go back and think about the following statement from what you wrote:
Sea ice forms first as salt-free crystals near the surface of the sea.

That is exactly what happens

Is the following then a fair world-trawler-list consensus statement (W-T-L
CS) on the subject?

  1. Pure water freezes at 32 deg F. at which time the H2Os become locked in
    a crystalline matrix.

This is the basis of the centigrade scale.

  1. The presence of dissolved salt, NaCl, depresses the point at which this
    occurs. Higher concentrations of salt lead to lower freezing points.

Seawater and brine solutions freeze at a lower temperature. Thats how you
make ice cream and why the sea doesnt freeze when the ponds do.  Fahrenheit
got it down to 0 degrees with 50% salt.

  1. The crystalline matrix itself is solely composed of H2O, the NaCl remains
    dissolved in a brine solution.

Thats why icebergs are fresh water and freezing can produce fresh water
commercially.

  1. In the open ocean the brine constituent is in equilibrium with an
    essentially infinite volume and therefore stays constant even as  H2O
    molecules are lost to the crystalline matrix.  The value of  28.6 deg F.at
    35 parts / 1000 saline is obtained under these conditions.

  2. In a container, in the freezer, as H2O is lost to the matrix the residual
    water becomes less, the salt concentration therefore increases.  This
    depresses the freezing point below the 28.6 given above.

Respectfully,
hmp

>Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 17:04:31 -0500 (EST) >From: Paul Kruse <plkruse@iu.net> > >Nope. Go back and think about the following statement from what you wrote: >Sea ice forms first as salt-free crystals near the surface of the sea. > >That is exactly what happens Is the following then a fair world-trawler-list consensus statement (W-T-L CS) on the subject? 1) Pure water freezes at 32 deg F. at which time the H2Os become locked in a crystalline matrix. This is the basis of the centigrade scale. 2) The presence of dissolved salt, NaCl, depresses the point at which this occurs. Higher concentrations of salt lead to lower freezing points. Seawater and brine solutions freeze at a lower temperature. Thats how you make ice cream and why the sea doesnt freeze when the ponds do. Fahrenheit got it down to 0 degrees with 50% salt. 3) The crystalline matrix itself is solely composed of H2O, the NaCl remains dissolved in a brine solution. Thats why icebergs are fresh water and freezing can produce fresh water commercially. 4) In the open ocean the brine constituent is in equilibrium with an essentially infinite volume and therefore stays constant even as H2O molecules are lost to the crystalline matrix. The value of 28.6 deg F.at 35 parts / 1000 saline is obtained under these conditions. 5) In a container, in the freezer, as H2O is lost to the matrix the residual water becomes less, the salt concentration therefore increases. This depresses the freezing point below the 28.6 given above. Respectfully, hmp
S
scaramouche@tvo.org
Wed, Nov 10, 1999 3:38 AM
  1. The crystalline matrix itself is solely composed of H2O, the NaCl
    remains
    dissolved in a brine solution.

Thats why icebergs are fresh water and freezing can produce fresh
water
commercially.

I'm surprised that no-one has brought on the subject of freezing
alcohol-water mixtures (i.e. wine). If you substitute the Na-Cl in
the statements above with C2-H5-OH, you get an ever increasing
concentration of alcohol. Easy and cheap way of operating a still in
your freezer.  :-)

Cheers - George

hpollock@massmed.org writes: >3) The crystalline matrix itself is solely composed of H2O, the NaCl >remains >dissolved in a brine solution. > >Thats why icebergs are fresh water and freezing can produce fresh >water >commercially. I'm surprised that no-one has brought on the subject of freezing alcohol-water mixtures (i.e. wine). If you substitute the Na-Cl in the statements above with C2-H5-OH, you get an ever increasing concentration of alcohol. Easy and cheap way of operating a still in your freezer. :-) Cheers - George
JD
jim_donohue@computer.org
Wed, Nov 10, 1999 3:46 AM

Apple Jack?

Apple Jack?